The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

[Chester]

Matthew 11:28-30: Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

The invitation is open to all who will come.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

with its lures and temptations.

You have pointed out "the things that are in the world" He said number 1. "LOVE NOT THE WORLD" Number 2. Neither the things that are in the world.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Matthew 11:28-30: Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

The invitation is open to all who will come.

You are taking your comment out of context. The invitation is open only to those whomsoever the Son will reveal (Matt 11:27). Those that Jesus will reveal are (Matt 11:25) not to the wise and prudent, but unto babes (in Christ) who have been newly born spiritually. The invitation is limited.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Sorry, the verse you quote does not say "the devil cannot prevent Christ from saving a person He died for". It says that Christ will build his church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

How about Romans 8:35-39? Eph 6:11? Col 2:15?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Or, it might be that none of your three scenarios are what the Bible says, and that actually the Bible really means exactly what it says about salvation . . . . (Your #2 is a very twisted warped view: that is not what most folks on this chat believe: in fact, I doubt you will not get more than one or two (probably none) to agree with point #2)

And what is your scenario? Is it that Christ died to pay for the sins of all mankind giving them a choice to accept his offering?

Christ's death on the cross was to pay for the sins of those that his Father gave him and he said that he would not lose any, but raise them up at the last day (John 6:37-40). This offering was offered to God, for God's acceptance, and not to mankind for mankind's acceptance.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Huh, that verse says nothing even close to what you are claiming.

It says that when Christ is "lifted up" (crucified) that He will draw all men (you say it is only a certain group of men)

You claim this verse says this group will be "made believers and converted to him" - Sorry, it does not say that - all it says is that they will be drawn unto him.

You are right, brightframe52 is incorrect. This has reference to Numbers 21:5-9. These were God's chosen nation of Israel as they were journeying through the wilderness after escaping Egypt. They were not converted to believe, they were already disobedient believers. They were complaining and God sent fiery serpents to bite the people of God, and much people died. Moses followed God's instruction by making a fiery serpent, setting it upon a pole, and when they were bitten, if they looked upon the pole, they lived. This is a like figure of Christ being lifted up on the cross (John 3:14-15) and those of God's chosen nation of Jacob/Israel would not perish, but have eternal life.

 

[brightfame52]

fgc

Salvation=deliverance, saved=delivered, save= deliver?

Sure I agree with that.

To my understanding, Psalms 80 has reference to God's elect people, who have been born again,

So does Rom 10:9-10

and are disobedient. Verse 4 indicates that they are "thy (god's) people". God is chastening them to humble them to repent.

Gods elect are once disobedient see Titus 3:3

For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

But God quickens us unto Faith in Christ. I just want you to see the analogy, there must be life given before we can call upon the name of the Lord. Do you believe the spiritually dead in sin can believe in Christ ? I dont.

God's elect people have had a one time deliverance (salvation) by the redemptive power of Jesus's death on the cross, but his born again elect experience many deliverances (salvations) as they sojourn here on earth.

I can agree with that, but nevertheless, action proceeds from life

In Psalms 80:18, in the KJV, the word "quicken us" has a footnote translation to mean " revive us".

Same difference, Christs resurrection from the dead is called a reviving Rom 14:9


For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. The idea is to live. The elect were once alive to God in Adam, else how can it be said, you shall surely die. Now of course the life the elect receive in quickening is much more than they lost in Adam, but Christ by His Spirit revives them to new life.

I do believe that one must be born again (quickened) before he will call upon the name of the Lord. (Eph 2:1-5).

Correct, and thats all Im saying, I just used a different passage that conveys the same truth I believe.

I would not be surprised if you disagree with me on my understanding of the salvation scriptures, but, to me, this is the only way that all of the scriptures will harmonize with each other, and it is my belief that this is in line with the doctrine that Jesus taught.

So far I pointed out what I disagree with, we will see if anything else arises.

 

[brightfame52]

chester

You ask the rhetorical question: "Why would God say that he loved a world, that he told us not to love?" -- Sorry, I won't bite. Your tactic of interpretation does not entice me at all. Yes, indeed God loved a world that he told us very clearly that we are not to let drag us down with its lures and temptations.

Thats not scriptural. The World God so Loved are bothers and sisters in Christ We Love one another Jn 13:34-35

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another

Jn 15 12
This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

1 Jn 3 11

For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

The world God doesnt want believers to love, is the world of unbelievers, who dont believe, and will never believe, and who hate God, Christ and His People. Jesus doesnt pray for that world, so He doesnt love it obviously Jn 17:9

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

And getting back on subject, the people God loves, the death of Christ result's in their Salvation.

 

[brightfame52]

chester

Nope! You may read the text that way if you like, but I won't. Jews never did or will have eternal salvation

Some of them will, thats a strange thing to say. You dont believe some jews are included in this promise Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

 

[brightfame52]

Here you go again building doctrine by a rhetorical question. Sorry, I won't bite.

Thats a good reason to avoid the question you cant or wont answer, I dont blame you

 

[brightfame52]

chester

It says that when Christ is "lifted up" (crucified) that He will draw all men (you say it is only a certain group of men)

Correct, all of that certain group, the elect from amongst all nations, different ethnic groups.

The word all is utilized to mean all of a certain group, all collectively its the word pas

1. individually
   1. each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
2. collectively
   1. some of all types

For instance, all the seed, that doesnt mean everyone in the whole wide world individually Rom 4:16

Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all[The seed of Abraham],

Now is Abraham the Father of every individual in the world ? Of course not.

 

[brightfame52]

chester

You claim this verse says this group will be "made believers and converted to him" - Sorry, it does not say that - all it says is that they will be drawn unto him.

Jesus claims that the ones drawn will be converted, drawing is equivalent to conversion and as a result of the drawing they come to Him, thats conversion. Jn 6:44


No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

sos 1:4

Draw me, we will run after thee: the king hath brought me into his chambers: we will be glad and rejoice in thee, we will remember thy love more than wine: the upright love thee.

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry, the verse you quote does not say "the devil cannot prevent Christ from saving a person He died for". It says that Christ will build his church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

Yes it does say it, just not in those exact words. Its the devils business to prevent one to be saved Lk 8:12

Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Preventing men from believing and be saved is the activity of the devil. So the devil cannot prevent them whom Christ died from believing and being saved, its impossible ! Lest you believe the devil is greater than Jesus Christ and can overthrow His Saving Death.

Jesus was manifested to destroy the works of the devil, and He did for His Church 1 Jn 3:8

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

 

[Chester]

I wrote this:

Matthew 11:28-30: Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

The invitation is open to all who will come.

You responded with:

You are taking your comment out of context. The invitation is open only to those whomsoever the Son will reveal (Matt 11:27). Those that Jesus will reveal are (Matt 11:25) not to the wise and prudent, but unto babes (in Christ) who have been newly born spiritually. The invitation is limited.

Huh? Oh, I agree context is very, very, important. But coming to a text without a pretext is also very important. If you come to the text already having decided that Jesus' invitation is not open to all, you will find that in the text.

I simply come and read the text as it is: and I stand with the invitation as I gave it:

Matthew 11:28-30: Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

The invitation is open to all who are burdened and weary! Come unto Jesus and He will give you rest.
The invitation is open to all who will come.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Matthew 11:28-30: Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Jesus is giving his invitation to come, to those who have already been born again. The rest he is referring to is not eternal rest, but is a rest from their labour by learning of him. Rest = take ease, refresh.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Yes it does say it, just not in those exact words. Its the devils business to prevent one to be saved Lk 8:12

Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Preventing men from believing and be saved is the activity of the devil. So the devil cannot prevent them whom Christ died from believing and being saved, its impossible ! Lest you believe the devil is greater than Jesus Christ and can overthrow His Saving Death.

Jesus was manifested to destroy the works of the devil, and He did for His Church 1 Jn 3:8

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Saved = delivered. This deliverance is not eternal, but a deliverance given to his born again children as they sojourn here on earth.

The sowing of seed parable is depicting the different kinds of hearts that God's born again children have, according to their level of faith.

Some of us have weaker hearts than others.

 

[brightfame52]

Saved = delivered. This deliverance is not eternal, but a deliverance given to his born again children as they sojourn here on earth.

The sowing of seed parable is depicting the different kinds of hearts that God's born again children have, according to their level of faith.

Some of us have weaker hearts than others.

I dont know what you talking about, Salvation is Eternal and Redemption when it comes to Christ friend. 2 Tim 2:10


Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Heb 5:9

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Heb 9:12


Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Now these so redeemed will believe, nothing can prevent that, themselves nor the devil.

 

[Chester]

Jesus is giving his invitation to come, to those who have already been born again. The rest he is referring to is not eternal rest, but is a rest from their labour by learning of him. Rest = take ease, refresh.

When we get to heaven, I want to be there when you explain this to Jesus what he was saying: that "all who labour and are heavy laden" does not include anyone who is not saved: I think the look on Jesus' face could be quite interesting!

 

[ForestGreenCook]

When we get to heaven, I want to be there when you explain this to Jesus what he was saying: that "all who labour and are heavy laden" does not include anyone who is not saved: I think the look on Jesus' face could be quite interesting!

Whether I am right (which I am) or not, there will be no explaining of the scriptures. I don't know what view that you have of what heaven will be like, but I don't think that there will be any striff, or contention there.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I dont know what you talking about, Salvation is Eternal and Redemption when it comes to Christ friend. 2 Tim 2:10


Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Heb 5:9

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Heb 9:12


Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Now these so redeemed will believe, nothing can prevent that, themselves nor the devil.

Sorry, but if you believe that all of the salvation scriptures are referencing eternal deliverance, then you are believing eternal deliverance is accomplished by your good works, such as your believing in spiritual things, repenting, confessing, accepting, etc. All of these are works, and none of them are responsible for your eternal deliverance,