the Sabbath

[john832]

I did not say we are perfect. I do not believe you understand what I was saying.... read it again... I said when we have 100 percent died to the flesh and allow the holy Spirit to 100 percent control us we are not going to sin.
I was saying what Gal 5:16 is.
The Holy Spirit can't sin...

I did not say we are 100 percent controlled by the Spirit.

I aim to be but the flesh comes to life and I sometimes fail to obey. Selfish fleshly feeling sometimes cause me to sin..

But if I am surrender to the Spirit of God and have died to the flesh, the Spirit will control me.

Mat 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

Rom 8:4-6 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Gal 5:16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

You are very correct here. There is a big difference between slipping and falling and getting back up and willfully sinning. This is what John was talking about...

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

1Jn 2:4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that.
1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

So what is a sin not unto death?

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Heb 4:15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

A sin not unto death is one repent of and go to the Throne of Grace and ask God to forgive us.

A sin unto death.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

One who turns away and willfully sins. This is the unpardonable sin, to willfully turn back to a life of sin with a seared conscience.

 

[Inquisitor]

I did not say we are perfect. I do not believe you understand what I was saying.... read it again... I said when we have 100 percent died to the flesh and allow the holy Spirit to 100 percent control us we are not going to sin.
I was saying what Gal 5:16 is.
The Holy Spirit can't sin...

I did not say we are 100 percent controlled by the Spirit.

I aim to be but the flesh comes to life and I sometimes fail to obey. Selfish fleshly feeling sometimes cause me to sin..

But if I am surrender to the Spirit of God and have died to the flesh, the Spirit will control me.

Mat 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

Rom 8:4-6 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Gal 5:16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

You said "sometimes fail to obey"?

Are you serious TMS?

I suppose your constantly praying 24/7 as Paul instructed us below.

1 Thessalonians 5:17
pray without ceasing

I really wonder whether you know what your talking about.

"I sometimes fail"

Mwhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

 

[Inquisitor]

You are very correct here. There is a big difference between slipping and falling and getting back up and willfully sinning. This is what John was talking about...

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

1Jn 2:4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that.
1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

So what is a sin not unto death?

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Heb 4:15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

A sin not unto death is one repent of and go to the Throne of Grace and ask God to forgive us.

A sin unto death.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

One who turns away and willfully sins. This is the unpardonable sin, to willfully turn back to a life of sin with a seared conscience.

Hebrews is talking about rejecting Jesus and returning to the law.

 

[john832]

If we are set free from sin why are we in constant conflict within?

Why is there a conflict between the flesh and the Spirit?

Jesus must act first at all times otherwise, we cannot continue.

Jesus must draw us at all times because we cannot do it ourselves.

I don't think we are truly set free until He returns and we are changed.

Surely your not going to say that you can by an act of willpower, your choosing
right from wrong, life from death. Remember that no one is righteous not even
one. How can the unrighteous choose by an act of willpower life over death?

Jesus nominated the six commandments not the ten to the rich young ruler.

Do you have an example in the New Testament where someone says the ten?

There is no law in the new testament concerning this...

Lev 18:23 Nor shall you mate with any animal, to defile yourself with it. Nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it. It is perversion.
Lev 18:24 'Do not defile yourselves with any of these things; for by all these the nations are defiled, which I am casting out before you.
Lev 18:25 For the land is defiled; therefore I visit the punishment of its iniquity upon it, and the land vomits out its inhabitants.

Are you going to tell me there is no law against bestiality?

 

[Inquisitor]

There is no law in the new testament concerning this...

Lev 18:23 Nor shall you mate with any animal, to defile yourself with it. Nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it. It is perversion.
Lev 18:24 'Do not defile yourselves with any of these things; for by all these the nations are defiled, which I am casting out before you.
Lev 18:25 For the land is defiled; therefore I visit the punishment of its iniquity upon it, and the land vomits out its inhabitants.

Are you going to tell me there is no law against bestiality?

Your obviously not talking about what Jesus said, the six or the ten?

Correct john832, in that the flesh of mankind is utterly given over to sin.

The law is a never ending condemnation of mankind.

The entire nation of Israel was grafted out and we Gentiles only stand by grace.

The law saved no one and never could.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

You are kidding, right?

The Law that says we should not kill has become useless? The Law concerning Adultery? How about lying?

When love becomes your nature you don't even think about doing things that harm other people, much less do them. No commandments necessary, though they are still useful for guidance and edification. People without the spirit and love need commandments to tell them what to do

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Jesus must act first at all times otherwise, we cannot continue.
Jesus must draw us at all times because we cannot do it ourselves.

If you see a beautiful woman and are tempted to do something with her that you shouldn't is it God keeping you from doing it, or yourself?

 

[vassal]

When love becomes your nature you don't even think about doing things that harm other people, much less do them. No commandments necessary, though they are still useful for guidance and edification. People without the spirit and love need commandments to tell them what to do

what about helping people in need ? did the Holy Spirit instructed you on this also?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Surely your not going to say that you can by an act of willpower, your choosing right from wrong,

Of course you can. You're tempted to lie, but realize it's wrong and force yourself to not do it. Same with adultery, murder, covetousness

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

what about helping people in need ? did the Holy Spirit instructed you on this also?

If you are led to do so go for it. Same with me. Every moment I try to live by the rule that says do to others as I want done to myself, and don't do to others what I don't want done to myself. Works pretty well. After a while you start seeing Jesus inside you

 

[vassal]

You have refuted the concept of free will.

It is impossible for mankind to choose life over death, man cannot choose life.

Have you forgotten that God already destroyed humanity but chose Noah?

Jesus told you directly that mankind will not choose life but will always choose death.

The apostles did not choose to follow Jesus nor did anyone else.

God must act first before anyone can be saved as it is impossible for man to save himself.

You contradict GOD! and scripture yet again.

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Deu 30:20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

Your comprehension is abysmal as always. since you reject God's words I also reject you as a testimony against you. I now leave you to your Own devices and you will not reach me anymore, but will continue to pray for you.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Oh, Dear LORD, how long will some insist "they are under the law" ( to "keep themSELVES saved"? ):
Bible knowledge:

​

"Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for​

the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy​

and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for​

manslayers,​

​

For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for​

menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing​

that is contrary to sound doctrine;" (1 Timothy 1:9-10 AV)​

​

Thus, those "saved By God's Grace Through faith, and Made righteous By Him" have what?
Biblically?...

Anybody? Still under the law and sabbath-keeping to be saved???

Paul's Sound Doctrine to me who is righteous:

"For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under Grace."​

(Romans 6:14 AV)​

Amen.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Oh, Dear LORD, how long will some insist "they are under the law" ( to "keep themSELVES saved"? ):
Bible knowledge:

​

"Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for​

the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy​

and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for​

manslayers,​

​

For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for​

menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing​

that is contrary to sound doctrine;" (1 Timothy 1:9-10 AV)​

​

Thus, those "saved By God's Grace Through faith, and Made righteous By Him" have what?
Biblically?...

Anybody? Still under the law and sabbath-keeping to be saved???

Paul's Sound Doctrine to me who is righteous:

"For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under Grace."​

(Romans 6:14 AV)​

Amen.

As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one; Romans 3:10
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us

Its sounds to me like the law is made for us.

If we have our own righteousness and do not needs God Psa 119:172 than the law is not for you.

But if we are sinners in need of grace, the law is for us. Because without the law, we don’t need grace, without grace, we don’t need Jesus, without Jesus, we are all LOST.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Its sounds to me like the law is made for us.

The law is made for the unrighteous. Those in Christ are righteous, so the law is not made for them

Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 1 Timothy 1:9-10​

​

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he [Christ] is righteous. 1 John 3:7​

 

[john832]

Hebrews is talking about rejecting Jesus and returning to the law.

not what it says. you should be careful...

Rev 22:18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
Rev 22:19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

[Cameron143]

not what it says. you should be careful...

Rev 22:18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
Rev 22:19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Actually, that's a really good 1 sentence synopsis of the epistle.

 

[TMS]

You said "sometimes fail to obey"?

Are you serious TMS?

I suppose your constantly praying 24/7 as Paul instructed us below.

1 Thessalonians 5:17
pray without ceasing

I really wonder whether you know what your talking about.

"I sometimes fail"

Mwhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Please explain.... ?

Do you fail to obey sometimes? Do you constantly perfectly obey? Or do you constantly always disobey?

In my own power I would fail constantly
But with Jesus we can overcome.

What is wrong with what I said?

 

[TMS]

Hebrews is talking about rejecting Jesus and returning to the law.

Which law.... read the context.
Hebrews is very much about the cerimonial laws. The laws that are shadows. Don't say they are all the same or all the laws are included because then the bible controdicts itself.

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Paul said this law was nailed to the cross...

JESUS said He did not come to destroy the law. Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Paul said not to make law void. Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

the laws are not all the same. You need to read the context to understand which law is being talked about.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

The law is made for the unrighteous. Those in Christ are righteous, so the law is not made for them

Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 1 Timothy 1:9-10​

​

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he [Christ] is righteous. 1 John 3:7​

If we are walking in Christ righteousness Psa 119:172 we would not be breaking the law and sinning 1 Peter 2:21-22 we would be walking just as Jesus walked for our example 1 John 2:5-6

But if we sin ever, the law is for us, because without the law, there is no need for God’s grace to forgive us of our sins for breaking His law 1 John 3:4 Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 James 2:10-12

 

[TMS]

Oh, Dear LORD, how long will some insist "they are under the law" ( to "keep themSELVES saved"? ):
Bible knowledge:

​

"Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for​

the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy​

and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for​

manslayers,​

​

For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for​

menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing​

that is contrary to sound doctrine;" (1 Timothy 1:9-10 AV)​

​

Thus, those "saved By God's Grace Through faith, and Made righteous By Him" have what?
Biblically?...

Anybody? Still under the law and sabbath-keeping to be saved???

Paul's Sound Doctrine to me who is righteous:

"For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under Grace."​

(Romans 6:14 AV)​

Amen.

You are correct in that we are saved by grace.. I don't believe anyone on this forum has said that they are saved by keeping the law.

So Do not presume that I keep the sabbath to be saved.
We are saved by faith through grace alone.
Faith in the righteousness of Jesus alone.

But I ask you.... do we continue to sin because Jesus paid it all?
Do we make void the law because of grace?
Do we transgress the law and continue to sin because Jesus has given us a perfect robe of righteousness.

No

The motive for keeping the law and obeying the commandments is not to be saved but because I, we, you, LOVE Jesus.

The reason I choose not to murder or steal or take the Lord's name in vain is because I Love the Lord.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.