The Royal Law Confuse with the Animal Sacrificial Law.

[Yahshua]

You can't just decide that certain jots and tittles no longer apply. Scripture EXPRESSLY says that is NOT the way it works. ALL THINGS written in the book means ALL "ceremonial", "sacrificial", "moral", "dietary" and any other imaginary divisions you may wish for.

Q) But can the Author of the law alter His own law?
A) yes.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

The scripture doesn't say the law was ended but that it was changed...amended...updated.


Q) What was changed about it?
A) The elements that concerned priestly service (i.e. those "works" that remedied when someone sinned or became unclean from sin)


Q) Why?
A) Because the priesthood was no longer earthly but now heavenly.


Ex. Take the copywriting law in the USA. This law had to be updated when society moved from analog to digital and to the internet. The old law was outdated and no longer fit our current situation. The law wasn't ended. So likewise, specifically the laws that involved the cleansing of sin were updated to apply to a heavenly priesthood. The law as a whole wasn't ended. Paul's issue in Galatians was that folks were still trying to apply the outdated portions of the law as if a heavenly priesthood was not now a reality.

[This is why it is critical to understand (not just know about) the Old Testament and the laws that were given...and when they were given (i.e., after which events). There is a reason Almighty gave them for us to know and to study. We can not teach new Christians to start halfway through the scriptures because we miss these nuances and what/why the Messiah and Paul said the things they said.]

If the whole law no longer applies then neither does any priesthood apply, because that's where the "works of the law" the Messiah is currently performing in heaven each day come from. If the law no longer applies then the Messiah has no work to do in heaven; then He's not ministering at all, contrary to scripture. But we know this isn't the case. The tasks of the priest come from the law.

When we read that "certain elements" of the whole law no longer apply after a certain point in the bible, that is the Almighty updating the law, not man. And it doesn't negate the rest that is still required to be followed.

 

[Yahshua]

Galatians 3:24-25
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

But this statement can only truly apply to the Jews to whom Paul was speaking.

If no one lived through obeying the law then this statement doesn't apply to them. If you or I never had to live through animal sacrifices for cleansing our sins or through purification rites to cleanse our iniquity, then the law was never our schoolmaster like it was Israel's schoolmaster.

Conversely, for us it was a family member...or a friend...or a colleague whose preaching brought us to Christ. it was never the law unless we had first been taught to follow the law. This is why after Gentiles were preached to about Christ and then brought into the faith in the early church, next they would be taught the law every Sabbath day (Acts 15)...but updated with what the Messiah had changed.

 

[MessengerofTruth]

But this statement can only truly apply to the Jews to whom Paul was speaking.

If no one lived through obeying the law then this statement doesn't apply to them. If you or I never had to live through animal sacrifices for cleansing our sins or through purification rites to cleanse our iniquity, then the law was never our schoolmaster like it was Israel's schoolmaster.

Conversely, for us it was a family member...or a friend...or a colleague whose preaching brought us to Christ. it was never the law unless we had first been taught to follow the law. This is why after Gentiles were preached to about Christ and then brought into the faith in the early church, next they would be taught the law every Sabbath day (Acts 15)...but updated with what the Messiah had changed.

Not to contradict what you are saying but, I thought that the 10 Commandments were a part of that schoolmaster bringing us to Christ (our desperate need for a Savior) because of our awareness of our falling short and transgression of those commands. Would you agree?

 

[MessengerofTruth]

As gentiles.

 

[Yahshua]

Not to contradict what you are saying but, I thought that the 10 Commandments were a part of that schoolmaster bringing us to Christ (our desperate need for a Savior) because of our awareness of our falling short and transgression of those commands. Would you agree?

No problem. I attempt to color-code each element of the law to help with the explanation. All red belong together, while all blue belong together:

Truly, if you mean understanding that the breaking of the commandments is why a savior is needed, yes.

But specifically, in Galatians Paul is concerned with the Jews performing certain things from the law that they no longer needed to perform because those things were specifically given to "teach" them about - and to prophesy - what the Messiah would specifically do to cleanse sins, through their repetitive examples.

The word translated as "schoolmaster" is also translated as "tutor". Only the specific works/tasks found in the law given to cleanse sin and to purify iniquity are the "tutor" Paul is talking about in Galatians, not the 10 commandments. Why? Because the 10 commandments don't cleanse sin. They never have. That's not their purpose.

The commandments only show what sin is, just like any law in your land (for example, the speed limit on a stretch of highway) only shows you what crime is; i.e., which speed is lawful vs. unlawful on that road. Once you're caught breaking the speed limit by the police, you're caught. That speed limit doesn't give you any remedy to undo your crime. That speed limit has no power to clear your unlawfulness because that speed limit was set to avoid unlawfulness. So you need to go to the judge and/or follow the officer's instructions to clear your record.

Likewise, we were caught breaking the commandments. The commandments can't clear us of sin. They were given to avoid sin & iniquity not clear it. So we need to go to the Judge. The Judge gave a series of tasks to Israel to repeat - year after year - for the purpose of cleansing sin & iniquity; clearing one's record with the Almighty...but these were just examples to follow until the Messiah came, teaching what only He would do because the blood of animals can't cleanse.

Q) What did The Messiah do to cleanse sin?
A) He died for His people, and then took His blood into heaven to sprinkle and cleanse the tabernacle.


It is the series of tasks that are "the tutor" that led those who followed them - year after year - to Christ and His work. Obeying one or all of the 10 commandments year after year doesn't teach anyone about the Messiah's death and then ministry in heaven (and in fact, there were many people who were blameless in obeying the commandments. Zechariah for example). But killing a lamb (and then following the remaining blood rites; sprinklings, etc) DOES teach what the Messiah would specifically do to cleanse sin. Thus, these needed to end when the Messiah finally came. They were not needed anymore.

Meanwhile, whenever the Messiah would forgive a person's sins He would tell them to go and sin no more; obey the 10 commandments. The commandments remain. Just like when your speeding ticket is cleared or paid for, you must go and speed no more. The speed limit remains.

...this is why Paul is not referring to the 10 commandments in Galatians. If Paul taught that the commandments were not needed anymore he would be teaching lawlessness, which he emphatically stated over and over and showed that he wasn't.

 

[TMS]

The WHOLE LAW is all or nothing.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


You can't just decide that certain jots and tittles no longer apply. Scripture EXPRESSLY says that is NOT the way it works. ALL THINGS written in the book means ALL "ceremonial" , "sacrificial", "moral", "dietary" and any other imaginary divisions you may wish for.

One Jot or One Tittle means if any of your imaginary parts has passed from the Law then it is ALL FULFILLED. Matthew 5:18 in the words of the LORD JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF says that the WHOLE LAW is FULFILLED or NONE OF IT IS FULFILLED. There can NEVER be portions of the Law fulfilled while other portions remain un-fulfilled.


Your whole imaginary philosophy is rendered useless with just 2 scriptures. Really just 1 but the 2nd helps to understand the 1st.

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Are you saying this verse means we should keep ALL the laws until heaven and Earth pass away?
It says "no wise pass from THE LAW". It doesn't mean every or all laws it is referring to "the law".

Ive given 10 plus differences between the cerimonial law and the 10 commandments and these differences are grounds to divide them.

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

If we are "of the works of the law", trying to be saved by works, then we "are under the curse". If I'm trying to be saved by keeping the law i better do them ALL and do them ALL perfectly. Which is impossible. Which means I'll fall under the curse.

But Jesus can give us His righteousness.

Rom 6:14-16
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Obedience to what??

 

[TMS]

Not to contradict what you are saying but, I thought that the 10 Commandments were a part of that schoolmaster bringing us to Christ (our desperate need for a Savior) because of our awareness of our falling short and transgression of those commands. Would you agree?

The cerimonial laws pointed to the remedy for sin. Priest's and blood offerings and things that all pointed to Christ and how Christ would free us from sin.
The moral laws point out what sin is.
Stealing has always been sin and will always be sin.
The schoolmaster is the laws that showed how Jesus would redeem us from our sin.

Gal 3:24-25
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

The law that says not to kill is still relevant, but the laws that say to kill lambs and visit the sanctuary are not because Jesus is the lamb slain and the high priest.

 

[Evmur]

A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19).

This was a direct answer to a direct question, which all of us will do well to take heed to. Anybody can claim to have faith, but actions speak louder than words. Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12). True saints realize that God's law must be obeyed to receive eternal life. Throughout the bible we find that in order to receive eternal salvation we must keep God's commandments to the end. If we make a mistake we must not give up, but I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:13-14). The last chapter in the whole bible reminds us of this one last time. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14).

Do YOU keep all the commandments? does anybody? has anybody ever? Faith and law are two clear different things.

Faith says "God You have said thus and so I BELIEVE You"
The lawkeeper says "God I have done according to Your commandments Pay me my just reward."

... I would not wish to come before God with the second proposition.

 

[Ted01]

I think that the Law (all of it) gives us insights to the Nature of God. The Israelites were to conduct themselves in
similar fashion to demonstrate to other nations that Nature.
The Covenant between God and Israel was basically, that if the people conducted themselves in accordance with
the Law(s) God would bless them... but the blessings were "material".

Deut. 28:1-14 “If you indeed obey the Lord your God and are careful to observe all his commandments I am giving you today, the Lord your God will elevate you above all the nations of the earth. 2 All these blessings will come to you in abundance if you obey the Lord your God: 3 You will be blessed in the city and blessed in the field. 4 Your children will be blessed, as well as the produce of your soil, the offspring of your livestock, the calves of your herds, and the lambs of your flocks. 5 Your basket and your mixing bowl will be blessed. 6 You will be blessed when you come in and blessed when you go out. 7 The Lord will cause your enemies who attack you to be struck down before you; they will attack you from one direction but flee from you in seven different directions. 8 The Lord will decree blessing for you with respect to your barns and in everything you do—yes, he will bless you in the land he is giving you. 9 The Lord will designate you as his holy people just as he promised you, if you keep his commandments and obey him. 10 Then all the peoples of the earth will see that you belong to the Lord, and they will respect you. 11 The Lord will greatly multiply your children, the offspring of your livestock, and the produce of your soil in the land that he promised your ancestors he would give you. 12 The Lord will open for you his good treasure house, the heavens, to give you rain for the land in its season and to bless all you do; you will lend to many nations but you will not borrow from any. 13 The Lord will make you the head and not the tail, and you will always end up at the top and not at the bottom, if you obey his commandments that I am urging you today to be careful to do. 14 But you must not turn away from all the commandments I am giving you today, to either the right or left, nor pursue other gods and worship them. (And further).

In the New Covenant, things are much different.

Heb. 8:6-13
6 But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second.
8 For he finds fault with them when he says:
“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah,
9 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers
on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt.
For they did not continue in my covenant,
and so I showed no concern for them, declares the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, declares the Lord:
I will put my laws into their minds,
and write them on their hearts,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
11 And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor
and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’
for they shall all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful toward their iniquities,
and I will remember their sins no more.”
13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

The New Covenant is, simply put, you have Faith that Jesus' work atones for your sin, and I will live in you. The idea is that God will live in/through us by Faith, and He gives us Salvation by Grace. Our relationship with God is in Spirit as He lives in our heart.

Then, He commands us to be Holy... but not in a way that's unobtainable. Jesus works in us and conforms us into something new.
It's Him doing the work... not us following rules, regulations, or Laws.

1 Pet. 1:14-16 14 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance, 15 but as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16 since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.”

The word holy basically means set apart (for God), or simply "other". God is fundamentally different than us, right?
And having the Law now written on our hearts, we don't follow a litany of Commands but live to strive to be "other"...
different than the World. And we can only do that with the Spirit of God living in us.

So, to be different than the World, we can look at how the world is, and insert "but you be different/other":

2Tim. 3:1-5 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2 For people will be lovers of self, (but you be different/other), lovers of money (but you be different/other), proud (but you be different/other), arrogant (but you be different/other), abusive(but you be different/other), disobedient to their parents (but you be different/other), ungrateful (but you be different/other), unholy (but you be different/other), 3 heartless (but you be different/other), unappeasable (but you be different/other), slanderous (but you be different/other), without self-control (but you be different/other), brutal (but you be different/other), not loving good (but you be different/other), 4 treacherous (but you be different/other), reckless (but you be different/other), swollen with conceit (but you be different/other), lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God (but you be different/other), 5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power (but you be different/other).

In this way, we keep the Law and lots more. As Jesus showed us in the Gospels, keeping the commands comes from a heart of love for both God and others. That heart is the "new" heart that God puts into His children as they are reborn into a Spiritual life, through Jesus Christ.

 

[BroTan]

Do YOU keep all the commandments? does anybody? has anybody ever? Faith and law are two clear different things.

Faith says "God You have said thus and so I BELIEVE You"
The lawkeeper says "God I have done according to Your commandments Pay me my just reward."

... I would not wish to come before God with the second proposition.

Many of us hear the word of God but we will see in the scriptures that Fear bring forth Obedience. Once you really sit down and study the Bible from Genesis to Revelation you will see that God means what he says and can't lie. We in the last days where the great punishment comes at the end (Lake of Fire). Theres an everlasting punishment for those who refuse to be corrected. Jesus says in Luke 12: 4, 5 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
Paul say in 2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. Now any Christian in their right mind wouldn’t dare say that it’s okay to steal, kill or commit adultery or break any of the other seven commandments. But really when it comes to the fourth commandment, people avoid it like a plague! They are either uninformed about which day is the Sabbath day of the God of the Bible or they are just following the tradition of religion that was passed down through the family or maybe they have let some preacher give them other excuses for ignoring God’s true day of worship. Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. (1 John 5: 1-3)

 

[BroTan]

If that is the case then your "sacrificial" laws are not fulfilled either. You are inconsistent in your own incorrect philosophy.

Not one Jot or one Tittle will fall from the Law until ALL IS FULFILLED.

2 Corinthians 3:14-16
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.


Galatians 3:24-25
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

If that is the case then your "sacrificial" laws are not fulfilled either. You are inconsistent in your own incorrect philosophy.

Paul explained this in; (Hebrews 10: (v.1) For the law (what law, the law of animal sacrifice?) having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (v.9) Then said he, (Jesus) Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first that he may establish the second. (v.10) By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 from henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

The point that is not understood is that we all have sin, but until Jesus came, there was no way of getting out from under your sins. So God institute a Priesthood and laws that went with the priesthood to control the sinning, and so the Lord use animal Sacrificial laws, even though it could not remove sins.

When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments. (v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins. (20) by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; (21) and having an high priest over the house of God; (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.

Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. (v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation).

2 Corinthians 3:14-16
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

Paul is explaining what happen when Moses hung around the Lord for long length a time. We would take on the same glory as the Lord, and this will happen in the future, for those who come up in the first resurrection, and or are saints. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12). True saints realize that God's law must be obeyed to receive eternal life. Let's read the end of 2 Corinthians 3: 17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. Let's take another look at this in 1 Corinthians 15: 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

See Moses was taking on these characteristics being around God, his face shone or begin to shine. But this is another lesson for another time,

Galatians 3:24-25
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Paul explain this in (Gal. 3:1, 13, 16-17, 19, 24) (v.1) O FOOLISH Ga-la’-tians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? (v.13) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, CURSED IS EVERYONE THAT HANGETH ON A TREE: What law is this talking about? Let the bible speak for itself.

(v.16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of One, AND TO THY SEED, which is Christ. (v.17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Now pay attention, the law that is being spoken of here came four hundred and thirty years after this covenant. But God’s holy commandments have been around forever even before man was created. Remember that Satan was kicked out of heaven because iniquity (sin) was found in him. And what is sin? The transgression of the law (commandments). Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. (1John 3:4)

(v.19) Wherefore then serveth the law? A question is being asked here. Then why should we serve this law? It was added because of transgression, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; the law that we are talking about here was added because of sin. But we now know that sin is the transgression of the law.

How do you add a law if sin is the transgression of the law? Because there are two sets of laws, you have God’s holy commandments which abided forever, and you had the animal sacrificial law which was added because of sin, but it was only good until the seed should come to whom the promise was made, and that seed was Jesus.

(v.24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. This animal sacrificial law was only a schoolmaster.

And this schoolmaster taught you that when you sinned in ignorance blood had to be shed (an animal sacrificed). But Christ being the ultimate sacrifice shed his precious blood once and for all, and by doing this putting an end to the animal sacrificial law.

 

[Grandpa]

Which law?

The laws are different and it is easy to confuse them.

When there was no SIN there was no death. No death and no need for a Saviour.
Before Sin no sacrifice was made or blood offered.

But sin is the transgression of the law so there must have been a law to define sin. before Sin the must have been a law.

do you agree.

Completely disagree.

If there was more than one law that NEEDED to be fulfilled here the Lord would have been specific. He would have listed them.

But there was no need. Because there is only one Law that was under Moses.

 

[Grandpa]

Q) But can the Author of the law alter His own law?
A) yes.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

The scripture doesn't say the law was ended but that it was changed...amended...updated.


Q) What was changed about it?
A) The elements that concerned priestly service (i.e. those "works" that remedied when someone sinned or became unclean from sin)


Q) Why?
A) Because the priesthood was no longer earthly but now heavenly.


Ex. Take the copywriting law in the USA. This law had to be updated when society moved from analog to digital and to the internet. The old law was outdated and no longer fit our current situation. The law wasn't ended. So likewise, specifically the laws that involved the cleansing of sin were updated to apply to a heavenly priesthood. The law as a whole wasn't ended. Paul's issue in Galatians was that folks were still trying to apply the outdated portions of the law as if a heavenly priesthood was not now a reality.

[This is why it is critical to understand (not just know about) the Old Testament and the laws that were given...and when they were given (i.e., after which events). There is a reason Almighty gave them for us to know and to study. We can not teach new Christians to start halfway through the scriptures because we miss these nuances and what/why the Messiah and Paul said the things they said.]

If the whole law no longer applies then neither does any priesthood apply, because that's where the "works of the law" the Messiah is currently performing in heaven each day come from. If the law no longer applies then the Messiah has no work to do in heaven; then He's not ministering at all, contrary to scripture. But we know this isn't the case. The tasks of the priest come from the law.

When we read that "certain elements" of the whole law no longer apply after a certain point in the bible, that is the Almighty updating the law, not man. And it doesn't negate the rest that is still required to be followed.

When the Law was changed it was completely fulfilled.

Otherwise the statement "One jot or one tittle will in no way fall from the law" is a lie.

Do you believe the Lord lied in Matthew 5???

 

[Grandpa]

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Are you saying this verse means we should keep ALL the laws until heaven and Earth pass away?
It says "no wise pass from THE LAW". It doesn't mean every or all laws it is referring to "the law".

Ive given 10 plus differences between the cerimonial law and the 10 commandments and these differences are grounds to divide them.

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

If we are "of the works of the law", trying to be saved by works, then we "are under the curse". If I'm trying to be saved by keeping the law i better do them ALL and do them ALL perfectly. Which is impossible. Which means I'll fall under the curse.

But Jesus can give us His righteousness.

Rom 6:14-16
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Obedience to what??

You are just making up imaginary rules that scripture DOESN'T place on the law.

Galatians 3:10 doesn't mention your intent "trying to be saved". It simply states a fact. If you are working at the law then you are under the curse because you must continue in ALL THINGS which are written in the law. All the jots and tittles.

It means you don't believe the Lord Jesus fulfilled the law. You believe you must fulfill the law. That is why you try to divide the law into parts and choose your favorites to "keep". Same EXACT thing the Pharisees before you did.

 

[Yahshua]

Do you believe the Lord lied in Matthew 5???

No

When the Law was changed it was completely fulfilled.

Can you share a passage that says "when the law was changed it was completely fulfilled"?

Otherwise the statement "One jot or one tittle will in no way fall from the law" is a lie.

The law regarding the Day of Atonement concludes with the High Priest removing his priestly garments and then rejoining the people after performing his ministry in the Most Holy Place. The fulfillment of this is clearly the Messiah returning to the earth after performing His heavenly Atonement work.

Isn't this a portion of the law that hasn't been fulfilled just yet?

 

[Grandpa]

Paul explained this in; (Hebrews 10: (v.1) For the law (what law, the law of animal sacrifice?) having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (v.9) Then said he, (Jesus) Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first that he may establish the second. (v.10) By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 from henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

The point that is not understood is that we all have sin, but until Jesus came, there was no way of getting out from under your sins. So God institute a Priesthood and laws that went with the priesthood to control the sinning, and so the Lord use animal Sacrificial laws, even though it could not remove sins.

When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments. (v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins. (20) by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; (21) and having an high priest over the house of God; (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.

Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. (v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation).






Paul is explaining what happen when Moses hung around the Lord for long length a time. We would take on the same glory as the Lord, and this will happen in the future, for those who come up in the first resurrection, and or are saints. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12). True saints realize that God's law must be obeyed to receive eternal life. Let's read the end of 2 Corinthians 3: 17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. Let's take another look at this in 1 Corinthians 15: 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

See Moses was taking on these characteristics being around God, his face shone or begin to shine. But this is another lesson for another time,







Paul explain this in (Gal. 3:1, 13, 16-17, 19, 24) (v.1) O FOOLISH Ga-la’-tians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? (v.13) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, CURSED IS EVERYONE THAT HANGETH ON A TREE: What law is this talking about? Let the bible speak for itself.

(v.16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of One, AND TO THY SEED, which is Christ. (v.17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Now pay attention, the law that is being spoken of here came four hundred and thirty years after this covenant. But God’s holy commandments have been around forever even before man was created. Remember that Satan was kicked out of heaven because iniquity (sin) was found in him. And what is sin? The transgression of the law (commandments). Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. (1John 3:4)

(v.19) Wherefore then serveth the law? A question is being asked here. Then why should we serve this law? It was added because of transgression, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; the law that we are talking about here was added because of sin. But we now know that sin is the transgression of the law.

How do you add a law if sin is the transgression of the law? Because there are two sets of laws, you have God’s holy commandments which abided forever, and you had the animal sacrificial law which was added because of sin, but it was only good until the seed should come to whom the promise was made, and that seed was Jesus.

(v.24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. This animal sacrificial law was only a schoolmaster.

And this schoolmaster taught you that when you sinned in ignorance blood had to be shed (an animal sacrificed). But Christ being the ultimate sacrifice shed his precious blood once and for all, and by doing this putting an end to the animal sacrificial law.

You are just making things up to perpetrate your Pharisaic wish of working at the law.

The law that was 430 years after the promise to Abraham was obviously the 10 commandments and all its supporting ordinances.

There aren't 2 sets of laws. The 10 commandments were added because of sin. All of the supporting ordinances and statutes were BECAUSE of the 10 commandments. Its all one law. With several supporting parts.


The Lord didn't come to fulfill part of the law. He came to fulfill the whole thing. To remove the curse of Death and Condemnation to all who come to Him.

2 Corinthians 3:7-9
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.



There is no way to mistake what this is.

There is a law, written on stones, that is death and condemnation. But there is a solution and a New Way apart from this death and condemnation. It is the Ministration of the Spirit.


A person cannot be under the Ministration of Death and Condemnation and under the Ministration of Life and Blessing simultaneously.

Romans 8:1-2
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. (engraven in stones)

 

[Grandpa]

Can you share a passage that says "when the law was changed it was completely fulfilled"?

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

A change would be jots and tittles falling from the Law.

 

[Grandpa]

The law regarding the Day of Atonement concludes with the High Priest removing his priestly garments and then rejoining the people after performing his ministry in the Most Holy Place. The fulfillment of this is clearly the Messiah returning to the earth after performing His heavenly Atonement work.

Isn't this a portion of the law that hasn't been fulfilled just yet?

Either you are completely wrong and out of whack, or

The Lord was just kidding in Matthew 5:18.


Didn't the Lord return after 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb?

 

[Yahshua]

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

A change would be jots and tittles falling from the Law.

You are establishing that definition, but scripture isn't. "Pass from" means "removal". Whereas, "change" means "updated but still there". Scripture says the priesthood changed so the law governing the priesthood had to also change. Scripture doesn't say the priesthood changed so the law governing the priesthood was removed.

Let's address your passage another way...

Revelation 21 clearly details that a new heaven and new earth will be created, with the first one passing away. Matthew 5:18 says until heaven and earth pass away not one jot or tittle will pass from the law until all is fulfilled.

Are we currently living in the new heaven and new earth right now?

Either you are completely wrong and out of whack, or

The Lord was just kidding in Matthew 5:18.


Didn't the Lord return after 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb?

The Messiah wasn't in heaven ministering during the 3 days and 3 nights. He was dead. When He resurrected He told Mary not to touch Him because He had yet to go to His Father.

 

[TMS]

? Faith and law are two clear different things

Faith and works are different but can not be seperated and still be effective.

Faith without works is dead... works without faith is dead...