The Return of Yeshua in the Year 6,000 From Creation and How Many Years Are Left

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TheDivineWatermark

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#61
He came in, stirred the pot, ignited controversy and division between believers, and likely stepped back to be entertained by the spitshow he created.
Hmm... I would have guessed that a person joins a "discussion board" to actually "discuss" the points being made (either in agreement, or in opposition to the points they themselves have introduced in their OP)... I've not seen any responses (by the OP) to any of the points I've made... so it made me wonder if he might be occupied elsewhere, for the time being... I understand that to really "ponder" another's points might indeed take a lengthy time period (so I am not complaining, mind you ;) ), I just wondered, is all... Do they have an actual rebuttal to these points I've put?? I'd be interested in hearing them, if so...




[personally, I am not against discussion and even debating points, but that's just me...]
 

TheDivineWatermark

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#62
^ Acts 18:28 uses a word translated as "debate" in some versions... (is why I'm saying what I said, there ^ )
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

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#63
Who's talking about "John Nelson Darby"? I've not mentioned him at any point.

What I'm talking about is (like I responded in my Post #37 - https://christianchat.com/threads/t...d-how-many-years-are-left.197122/post-4480340 ), regarding the verses *you've* brought up, like Matt24:44[43,42] / Lk12:40[39,36], where it talks about "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" [i.e. as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom], THEN the meal [G347]

... NOT one who is coming/returning (at that point in the chronology) "TO BE wed"... but let me guess, you see no problem with Jesus coming with an intention of MARRYING "10 VirginS [or even the 5 wise VirginS (PLURAL)]" [per the parable in Matt25--Olivet Discourse]
...because you see no problem at all with that story, right? The "bride/wife [singular (Rev19:7)]" becoming "5 WIVES [PLURAL]" which He'll be MARRYING [per the parable, *according to you*], right?? ( :cautious: )



Can you explain this?

(I'm going to guess you're among those who've argued that having multiple wives is what God/Jesus had in mind "from the beginning," right? Adam and his "5 or 10 Women / Eves"?)
Parables are parables while they communicate a principle via story the story does not have to be factual. People often do that with the parable of Lazerus and the rich man. Over analize the parts of the story which don't affect the point.
The parable of the virgins isn't about virgins, lamps or oil. Its summed up in the last statement, " Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.
"
Matthew 25:13 ESV
Point is be ready for his return.
This also defies the rapture theory.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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#64
Parables are parables while they communicate a principle via story the story does not have to be factual. People often do that with the parable of Lazerus and the rich man. Over analize the parts of the story which don't affect the point.
Well, I do think He knows the difference between the one whom the bridegroom is to "MARRY" [not mentioned here] and the plurals regarding whom the bridegroom is NOT "marrying". ;)

He didn't present parables that were incoherent and complete misrepresentations of a thing...

The parable of the virgins isn't about virgins, lamps or oil. Its summed up in the last statement, " Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.
"
Matthew 25:13 ESV
Again, "know [PERFECT indicative]" (is not saying that they can NEVER know / WILL NEVER know, but to "watch" in order to find out [and now what He has further disclosed LATER on THAT Subject, after His resurrection / ascension / exaltation [i.e. in the later 95ad writing of the Revelation]... because, even as He told His disciples just before going to the Cross, "I HAVE YET MANY THINGS to say unto you, BUT..." (Jn16)]).

And "watch [G1127]" I already covered in an earlier post and what is said "to/for/about" the Church which is His body in relation to that word, in 1Th5:10[6], per ITS context; which is a DISTINCT THING from what is being said with that word in His Olivet Discourse (but no one is wanting to acknowledge that we are to be "correctly apportioning the word of truth," here, by paying attention to this very "distinction")

Point is be ready for his return.
Correct. The CONTEXT (of the Matt25 passage you are pointing out) is about His "RETURN" to the earth (where they will be located), after He will be ALREADY-WED (not "TO BE wed"--Revelation 19:7 re: "the MARRIAGE" itself [having taken place IN HEAVEN, by that point], in distinction to that of Revelation 19:9 re: the wedding FEAST/SUPPER, i.e. earthly MK age, commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth, where THEY will be located, never having been "lifted off" the earth). The context is NOT about "our Rapture" (nor ITS timing)... it's not about "US [/the Church which is His body]" at all.

This also defies the rapture theory.
In no way does it defy the "pre-trib rapture" position, at all.

Instead, those holding the "pre-trib" doctrine correctly apportion all of the related passages (just as we are called to do and exhorted to do).



[the "betrothed/bride/wife [singular]" is NOT "the guests [plural]," NOR the "10 or 5 virgins/bridesmaids [plural]," NOR the "servants/attendants [plural]" of that particular time-period... NOR is the "betrothed/bride/wife [singular]" the "FRIEND of the bridegroom," as we see was said regarding "John the Baptist"... but we don't see him trying to "get out of his own placement" and throwing a fit about such, and saying how "unfair" it all is, do we?? ;) ]
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#65
Hmm... I would have guessed that a person joins a "discussion board" to actually "discuss" the points being made (either in agreement, or in opposition to the points they themselves have introduced in their OP)... I've not seen any responses (by the OP) to any of the points I've made... so it made me wonder if he might be occupied elsewhere, for the time being... I understand that to really "ponder" another's points might indeed take a lengthy time period (so I am not complaining, mind you ;) ), I just wondered, is all... Do they have an actual rebuttal to these points I've put?? I'd be interested in hearing them, if so...
Given the few comments that he did make, I don't think there is any value in reading more of them. He's self-righteous, arrogant, and assured that everyone who disagrees with him is not just incorrect, but hell-bound.

No thanks.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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#66
Parables are parables while they communicate a principle via story the story does not have to be factual. People often do that with the parable of Lazerus and the rich man. Over analize the parts of the story which don't affect the point.
Well, this is also what *I* am saying, in a way...

Ppl look at the word "torment" in Lk16:23,28 (in this parable ^ you're mentioning ^ ) and conclude to themselves that this "torment" must be what BEGINS at the GWTj, just because the word "torments / this place of torment" is used (similar to the word in Rev14:11 which also refers to "unto the ages of the ages" [i.e. forever / eternity / never-ending / etc]); but they have the "chronology" all askew, because "the rich man" is saying "send him to my father's house... to my brethren" (one who can help prevent them from coming here too); but at the point of the GWTj, there is no time after that where ppl are able to come to faith and avoid going to the lake of fire, see.

It is a matter of "chronology" in that case, which those who say such a thing are overlooking in their scrutiny... ;)
 

GaryA

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Aug 10, 2019
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#69
But Jesus never said that it would be revealed to his disciples, he said stuff, like hour which you do not expect, and like a thief in the night, and if someone comes and says here he is or there he is.
The fact is we do not know, nor can we.
How many such prognosticators must come and go all getting it wrong before we learn.

False prophets and heretics every last one of them.
There are some things we can know; hence, this often overlooked verse:

1 Thessalonians 5:

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#70
There are some things we can know; hence, this often overlooked verse:

1 Thessalonians 5:

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
Because we know he is coming we watch, as it is written just a few more verses down
So then let us not sleep, as others do, but let us keep awake and be sober. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, are drunk at night.
1 Thessalonians 5:6‭-‬7 ESV

We don't get to rip a passage out of context and assign it meaning as it stands alone.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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#72
There are some things we can know; hence, this often overlooked verse:

1 Thessalonians 5:

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
Yes, and there are a thousand CONNECTIONS [/clues] just in those 4 verses alone!!;)


[okay, so I've exaggerated a little... there's not literally "a thousand"... but there are MANY MORE ('connections' therein) than we commonly realize/recognize! ;) ]
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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#73
I did not say that.

I said, the statements ['no man knoweth/knows [PERFECT tense]'] are NO LONGER TRUE OF [/APPLICABLE TO] JESUS (ever since His resurrection / ascension / exaltation).

"Know" in the "PERFECT tense" is NOT saying one can NEVER KNOW, or WILL NEVER KNOW.

He [now] KNOWS. ;)

And He has chosen to DISCLOSE further information on THAT SUBJECT, in His later "[The] Revelation of Jesus Christ..."




It is only so much human reasoning to say that "Jesus STILL does not know" (which the texts are NOT stating. ;) )
Jesus definitely knows more now than He did during His earthly pilgrimage.....
Rev 1:1
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,

Though I do hold out the possibility that it will be the Father, Who in His Sovereign discretionary will commands the Son to go and harpazo His betrothed. In other words the Son Himself does not know the precise moment EVEN NOW....per Matt 24:36. Which would match the protocols of the Jewish wedding ceremony of course.

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

However, we as Christians definitely should know the times and the seasons. And the times and the seasons are NOW my dear friends.

www.watchmanbiblestudy.com/BibleStudies/HIStoryOurFuture/Ezekiels430Days.html
https://barrysetterfield.org/Signs/Signs.html
 

TheDivineWatermark

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#74
Jesus definitely knows more now than He did during His earthly pilgrimage.....
Rev 1:1
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,

Though I do hold out the possibility that it will be the Father, Who in His Sovereign discretionary will commands the Son to go and harpazo His betrothed. In other words the Son Himself does not know the precise moment EVEN NOW....per Matt 24:36. Which would match the protocols of the Jewish wedding ceremony of course.

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

However, we as Christians definitely should know the times and the seasons. And the times and the seasons are NOW my dear friends.

www.watchmanbiblestudy.com/BibleStudies/HIStoryOurFuture/Ezekiels430Days.html
https://barrysetterfield.org/Signs/Signs.html
Okay, but for one thing... I am saying that the CONTEXT of Matt24:36 is NOT "our Rapture," but the time-slot of His Second Coming to the earth... and that He (Jesus) disclosed further information on THAT Subject in His later [95ad] "[The] Revelation" (AFTER His ascension / exaltation) ... and which Book includes a great many time-stamps (some more readily-apparent than others, in the text, but many more than is commonly realized/recognized)... for example: "kings" went "[/go] out to battle" at a very specific day... (so Rev19 shows Him doing such... and He is the One to Whom the God the Father "GAVE UNTO HIM [/UNTO JESUS] to shew unto..." per Rev1:1, this being many YEARS after He had stated the "no man knows [PERFECT tense INDICATIVE]" which is not conveying the idea that He [or others] would NEVER "know" or CAN EVER "know"... No. [Again, His 2nd Coming to the earth CONTEXT in these type passages... but to be clear, I do not believe He is ignorant of the other thing, either ("our Rapture" timing)--just that that is not the CONTEXT here, where these are stated thusly])



____________

P.S. on the other discussion going on here... 1Th5:1-4 is speaking of "the DOTL'S ARRIVAL" [TIME-PERIOD's] point in time (not the Lord's Own Personal ARRIVAL, which takes place at a later point in the chronology)
 

cv5

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#75
Okay, but for one thing... I am saying that the CONTEXT of Matt24:36 is NOT "our Rapture," but the time-slot of His Second Coming to the earth... and that He (Jesus) disclosed further information on THAT Subject in His later [95ad] "[The] Revelation" (AFTER His ascension / exaltation) ... and which Book includes a great many time-stamps (some more readily-apparent than others, in the text, but many more than is commonly realized/recognized)... for example: "kings" went "[/go] out to battle" at a very specific day... (so Rev19 shows Him doing such... and He is the One to Whom the God the Father "GAVE UNTO HIM [/UNTO JESUS] to shew unto..." per Rev1:1, this being many YEARS after He had stated the "no man knows [PERFECT tense INDICATIVE]" which is not conveying the idea that He [or others] would NEVER "know" or CAN EVER "know"... No. [Again, His 2nd Coming to the earth CONTEXT in these type passages... but to be clear, I do not believe He is ignorant of the other thing, either ("our Rapture" timing)--just that that is not the CONTEXT here, where these are stated thusly])



____________

P.S. on the other discussion going on here... 1Th5:1-4 is speaking of "the DOTL'S ARRIVAL" [TIME-PERIOD's] point in time (not the Lord's Own Personal ARRIVAL, which takes place at a later point in the chronology)
Understood. Bear in mind that in my opinion, the rapture is actually the precursor that allows the 70th week to kick off. In her words since the specific date of the rapture MAY not known the start 70th week is not either. Gods wrath cannot be meted out until the harpazo occurs. Such a situation matches with the relevant Scriptural statements and historical judgment precedents.
 
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