The relationship between the Remission of Sins, the Blood of Jesus, and receiving the Holy Ghost

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#141
Nov 27, 2018
5,247
1,104
113
#141
KelbyofGod said:
.... wow.
Click to expand...
I agree. And, once again, am reminded that obedience is required in order for people to "see." Jesus spoke of this in John 3:3, "Except a man be born again he CANNOT SEE..." This concept is seen in the account of a blind man who obeyed Jesus and washed at the pool of Siloam where he received his sight. (John 9:1-11) An interesting point in the story concerns the clay mixture. I contend that the clay mixture represents humanity (clay) joining with Jesus (spittle) to produce an outcome. (Rom. 6:3-5) The outcome is the ability to see spiritual concepts. And this a direct result of one's belief and obedience in submitting to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#142
Nov 27, 2018
5,247
1,104
113
#142
Wansvic said:
I agree. And, once again, am reminded that obedience is required in order for people to "see." Jesus spoke of this in John 3:3, "Except a man be born again he CANNOT SEE..." This concept is seen in the account of a blind man who obeyed Jesus and washed at the pool of Siloam where he received his sight. (John 9:1-11) An interesting point in the story concerns the clay mixture. I contend that the clay mixture represents humanity (clay) joining with Jesus (spittle) to produce an outcome. (Rom. 6:3-5) The outcome is the ability to see spiritual concepts. And this a direct result of one's belief and obedience in submitting to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Click to expand...
@KelbyofGod
To clarify, the post addresses one's ability to comprehend spiritual truths after water baptism but more importantly is remission of one's personal sin takes place as well.
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
#143
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,952
113
#143
KelbyofGod said:
I agree that it takes faith to 'cause' a healing. But I don't think that is the same as being free from the curse.
Click to expand...
A book could be written to reply, here. In short, consider the story of Moses and the Veil, for the Veil is the future reflection of the Curse that Christ came to deal with. Paul explains it clearly:

2 Corinthians 3:12-16 NLT - "Since this new way gives us such confidence, we can be very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory, even though it was destined to fade away. 14 But the people's minds were hardened, and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth. And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ. 15 Yes, even today when they read Moses' writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand. 16 But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away."

Go back to the original text with Moses . . . When the Veil was lowered, Israel could understand. When the Veil was raised, they went back into unbelief; lack of Faith and trust. This isn't to suggest (or it could be) that one can go from being saved to unsaved, but it is demonstrating that when the Curse is lifted, a person has Faith and is capable of understanding, obeying, and making the right "choice" which is to do as the Lord commanded. But as Paul said, the Lord hardened their hearts so that they could not understand. Why? There is a Plan that is being executed right now.

Romans 11:7-10 NLT - "So this is the situation: Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have--the ones God has chosen--but the hearts of the rest were hardened. 8 As the Scriptures say, "God has put them into a deep sleep. To this day he has shut their eyes so they do not see, and closed their ears so they do not hear." 9 Likewise, David said, "Let their bountiful table become a snare, a trap that makes them think all is well. Let their blessings cause them to stumble, and let them get what they deserve. 10 Let their eyes go blind so they cannot see, and let their backs be bent forever."

It is impossible for a person to believe until the Veil is removed, or, the Curse that revolves around the Sin Nature.
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
#145
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,952
113
#145
Everlasting-Grace said:
so god just choses some and forces them to believe whether they want to or not.

and does not even allow others the chance.

then calls himself a loving God?

God chose according to his will. that whoever sees and believes will have eternal life. and they will be conformed to his image.

I can't tell a group of ten people I love them so much I am going to give them all a million dollars all they have to do is come. Then only allow 3 of them to come, and the rest prevent them from even having the ability to come.

I am seen by everyone who sees as a liar. I do not love them. And my offer was a fraudulent offer..

I am sorry bro. I can not agree with this attack on Gods character.. I know your my brother. but I can not support your view.
Click to expand...
I'm not attacking God. I'm supporting His Power.

3rd time . . . is Christ in error when he said:

John 15:16 NLT - "You didn't choose me. I chose you. I appointed you to go and produce lasting fruit, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask for, using my name."
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
#146
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,952
113
#146
rogerg said:
Christ has always been the Saviour - He has never not been the Saviour. Old Testament or New Testament, all who ever have become saved, or will ever be saved, are saved the same way: by Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...
I agree. However, I have no idea what the issue is that you have with what I wrote.
 
R

rogerg

Well-known member
#147
Jul 13, 2021
3,655
568
113
#147
Wansvic said:
I agree. And, once again, am reminded that obedience is required in order for people to "see." Jesus spoke of this in John 3:3, "Except a man be born again he CANNOT SEE..."
Click to expand...
Obedience to the faith is the obeying. That obedience is given as a gift to those who become born-again

[Rom 1:4 KJV] 4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
[Rom 1:5 KJV] 5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

[1Pe 1:22-23 KJV] 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, [see that ye] love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
#149
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,952
113
#149
rogerg said:
I thought you said there was no Saviour for those of the Old Testament. Did I misunderstand?
Click to expand...
Correct. You misunderstood.

Before Abraham was born, Jesus lived. Jesus has been Circumcising hearts from the beginning.
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#151
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
1,854
113
#151
2ndTimothyGroup said:
I'm not attacking God. I'm supporting His Power.

3rd time . . . is Christ in error when he said:

John 15:16 NLT - "You didn't choose me. I chose you. I appointed you to go and produce lasting fruit, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask for, using my name."
Click to expand...
He has the power. and the soverignty to do whatever he wants.

If he wants to set aside his power to recieve his creation that wants him, he has the right and the ability to do this.

He claims to be a God of love. Satan claims he is not a God of love but a God of manipulation. who only wishes to make his creation his puppets to do whatever he wants. There is no love.

Well saying God will only allow some to believe and not others. is buying right into this lie. Thats why I hate it

You keep posting the same verse. There are many verses which say God chose his people. They also tell us how he chose. based on his foreknowedge. And God always choses according to his will.

It was Gods will that he would send his son to make atonement. this was his plan before time began

it was his will that whoever would believe in him would be saved. This also was willed before time began.

I could not chose God because I did not know him, I only knew of him, But I could chose to recieve his salvation. because he brought me to his knees. and through the conviction of the law. His creation (rom 1) and the people who were witnessing to me and his word. He did that. And I made the decision to get on my knees and call out to jesus. Because I required his mercy.
I chose his salvation. Based on his will and his plan and his work. He chose to save me
 
R

rogerg

Well-known member
#154
Jul 13, 2021
3,655
568
113
#154
2ndTimothyGroup said:
Correct. You misunderstood.

Before Abraham was born, Jesus lived. Jesus has been Circumcising hearts from the beginning.
Click to expand...
Following is part of your post which is what I was replying to. I was trying to demonstrate salvation has always been salvation and
that solely/always by Christ regardless of OT or NT. Again, if that's what you were saying, then my mistake.

"How is it possible to be Pure if Christ hadn't lived or died in his physical body so as to be that final Sacrifice for all sin?

Understanding Salvation in the Old Testament explodes wide open Salvation as it is found in the New Testament."
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
#155
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,952
113
#155
Everlasting-Grace said:
You keep posting the same verse.
Click to expand...
Because you haven't been addressing it. It is either True or not. Look at the disciples . . . they all simply turned, dropped whatever it was that they were doing, and began following Christ.

Paul, AKA Saul, when he was on the Damascus Road on his way to gather names of Christians to persecute, was he Seeking and choosing Christ? Quite the opposite. However, when he felt the Raw, Almighty Power of God, his "choice" had been made. There was no way that he was going to contend with that Power, for he instantly referred to Christ as "Lord."

Judas. At the table, Jesus sent an evil spirit upon him to go out and conduct his business of creating a way to overthrow Christ. Was that his choice?

King Saul, the Spirit of the Lord was removed from him and God placed an evil spirit upon him. Was this his choice?

Here is the deal . . . the vast majority of 'christians' claim that they believe in God, but this Remnant of people, this incredibly small number of people are not actually saved at all. They THINK they're saved, but in reality, they're clueless as to the True Gospel. They think they understanding, but they do not. This is nearly 100% of all 'christians' I have ever encountered.

Matthew 7:21-23 NKJV - "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

I have felt the Raw, Almighty Power of God. After experiencing God in this way, much like young Saul on the D-Road, that was the day I realized that I didn't "know" God. More, until that day, I wasn't Known by God. But that Day, He found me and "Knew" me. It was that day that I realized how shallow I was in my Understanding, Knowledge and Wisdom. I even considered to be a "master" of certain doctrines. For, I had spent my entire conscious life being a Christian. I have always been 'in' the church. But, I had not been Truly Indwelt by the Spirit. Once that day occurred for and to me, that was the day I woke up and began living a True life of being an alien in a strange and foreign land.
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
#157
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,952
113
#157
rogerg said:
Okay, then I apologize, but does your reply also imply that He actually saved in the OT?
Click to expand...
Thanks bud! Oh my, yes. Christ has been redeeming people from the Curse from the Beginning. Otherwise, no one could have been considered Righteous, Pure, and Holy. And more, David could not have written and sung, continuously about his salvation.
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
#158
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,952
113
#158
rogerg said:
Following is part of your post which is what I was replying to. I was trying to demonstrate salvation has always been salvation and
that solely/always by Christ regardless of OT or NT. Again, if that's what you were saying, then my mistake.
Click to expand...
100% - What you have written is what I have concluded about the Old Testament.

Peace, brother Roger~
 
You must log in or register to reply here.