The Rapture

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PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Based on what scripture?
Please study how "mark" or "to be marked" was used in scripture. In the case of Rev 13-14 those who "receive" the mark are "marked" for fire and brimstone because they worshiped the beast but initially they are the ones who are able to live and conduct business in the beast empire.

Those who have studied Revelation extensively understand that John gets much of his figurative language from the OT prophets and (as I'll demonstrate later) certain Roman and Greek mythology as well.

So check out the below passage. Here those with the mark are spared just as in Rev 13.

Eze 9:

And He called to the man clothed with linen, who had the writer’s inkhorn at his side; [SUP]4 [/SUP]and the Lord said to him, “Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and cry over all the abominations that are done within it.”
[SUP]5 [/SUP]To the others He said in my hearing, “Go after him through the city and kill; do not let your eye spare, nor have any pity. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Utterly slay old and young men, maidens and little children and women; but do not come near anyone on whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary.”

So, in Rev 13 you have two groups living together, those "marked" and those "not marked." Those marked in Rev 13 as in Eze 9 are spared while those without the mark are killed. Then later in Rev 14 we see those who are marked are divinely punished.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Where is your scripture to prove your point about "the mark being adding to God's word?"

The mark on the forehead is symbol of what we believe and the mark of the hand is a symbol of what we do. Since what we do demonstrates what we really believe. It has to do with who we worship and follow.
Exodus 13:9 "And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the Lord's law may be in thy mouth: ..."


Exodus 13:16-18 "And it shall be for a token upon thine hand, and for frontlets between thine eyes: .... And the Lord spoke unto Moses, saying, ...Verily my Sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you. Ye shall keep the Sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defiles it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God."


Exodus 31:13 "...Verily my sabbaths you shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you."
I agree with you that the mark in the forehead is what we believe and the mark in the right hand is what we do. Both of those are based on what we DO with the word of God. If we believe every word of God and don't change it then will have the SEAL of God in our right hand and our right hand will be grace.

What do works salvation people do... they twist scripture to fit their works based religion. So, I agree with you and I think we are coming from the same point.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Please study how "mark" or "to be marked" was used in scripture. In the case of Rev 13-14 those who "receive" the mark are "marked" for fire and brimstone because they worshiped the beast but initially they are the ones who are able to live and conduct business in the beast empire.

Those who have studied Revelation extensively understand that John gets much of his figurative language from the OT prophets and (as I'll demonstrate later) certain Roman and Greek mythology as well.

So check out the below passage. Here those with the mark are spared just as in Rev 13.

Eze 9:

And He called to the man clothed with linen, who had the writer’s inkhorn at his side; [SUP]4 [/SUP]and the Lord said to him, “Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and cry over all the abominations that are done within it.”
[SUP]5 [/SUP]To the others He said in my hearing, “Go after him through the city and kill; do not let your eye spare, nor have any pity. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Utterly slay old and young men, maidens and little children and women; but do not come near anyone on whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary.”

So, in Rev 13 you have two groups living together, those "marked" and those "not marked." Those marked in Rev 13 as in Eze 9 are spared while those without the mark are killed. Then later in Rev 14 we see those who are marked are divinely punished.
It's like bookends said, the forehead is the mind and the right hand is our works. Both of those are marked according to what we do with the word of God.
 
Jul 23, 2017
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It's like bookends said, the forehead is the mind and the right hand is our works. Both of those are marked according to what we do with the word of God.
it says mark IN the forehead or IN the right hand. its clearly a literal mark that has something to do with buying and selling.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
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I agree with you that the mark in the forehead is what we believe and the mark in the right hand is what we do. Both of those are based on what we DO with the word of God. If we believe every word of God and don't change it then will have the SEAL of God in our right hand and our right hand will be grace.

What do works salvation people do... they twist scripture to fit their works based religion. So, I agree with you and I think we are coming from the same point.
Agreed. Those who "got along with" the beast empire are marked either by their deeds (right hand) or by their thinking (foreheads).

Changing or "twisting" scripture, while not good isn't akin to the mark of Rev 13-14. The futurists change and twist scripture all the time but I do not see them partaking of the plagues of Revelation or having any other serious consequences for their false ideas other than major disappointment as their lives come to a close and they are still here and not raptured.

Their big consequence for being so wrong is that they go through life spiritually blind from so many of the hidden truths and blessings of "living in the spirit" and understanding that we don't belong to this world or the cares of this world as to not get bogged down by the earth's problems. Our residence is in heaven, with the company of so many witnesses who've gone ahead.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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it says mark IN the forehead or IN the right hand. its clearly a literal mark that has something to do with buying and selling.
Why is it clearly a literal mark? I don't have the mark and I don't buy nor sell OIL.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Agreed. Those who "got along with" the beast empire are marked either by their deeds (right hand) or by their thinking (foreheads).

Changing or "twisting" scripture, while not good isn't akin to the mark of Rev 13-14. The futurists change and twist scripture all the time but I do not see them partaking of the plagues of Revelation or having any other serious consequences for their false ideas other than major disappointment as their lives come to a close and they are still here and not raptured.

Their big consequence for being so wrong is that they go through life spiritually blind from so many of the hidden truths and blessings of "living in the spirit" and understanding that we don't belong to this world or the cares of this world as to not get bogged down by the earth's problems. Our residence is in heaven, with the company of so many witnesses who've gone ahead.
I agree, and the bible doesn't say that having the mark ONLY will condemn us to the lake of fire.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
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I agree with you that the mark in the forehead is what we believe and the mark in the right hand is what we do. Both of those are based on what we DO with the word of God. If we believe every word of God and don't change it then will have the SEAL of God in our right hand and our right hand will be grace.

What do works salvation people do... they twist scripture to fit their works based religion. So, I agree with you and I think we are coming from the same point.
Is the grace in our right hand the grace God gives us, or the grace we show to others? Christ's love shown through us?

For I believe someone could accept God's grace, believe in Jesus, and still not be a true Christian in their actions. Having one foot in the world and one foot in Christ doesn't cut it. in other words, does a true Christian follow the world when the world contradicts Christ's commandments.

Hebrews 5:

9 [FONT=&quot]And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,[/FONT]
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
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It's like bookends said, the forehead is the mind and the right hand is our works. Both of those are marked according to what we do with the word of God.
100% correct on the first part. The 144K are sealed by God, marked for protection. Those with the "mark of the beast" were marked for spiritual and physical death.
 

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
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So Mother Babylon's destruction is still future
 
Jul 23, 2017
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So Mother Babylon's destruction is still future
i wanna point this out to u:

Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

its a city now that could be vatican city. the colors match too, this is what the priests wear in those temples i could show u a picture:

Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
Rev 18:16 And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

this is just a theory dont take it to tha bank. but tha catholic church does fit drunken with da blood of saints too!
 

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
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The whore is Jerusalem, the Beast is the Roman Empire I think.

After Jerusalem was destroyed, they just set it all up again on another 7 hilled city, Rome.

They merge together to form the partnership of iron and clay - the 5th Kingdom

The Hebrew for Jerusalem is actually plural and should be translated Jerusalems.

Obviously you have earthly and then heavenly Jerusalem, but Rome itself is another Jerusalem.
 
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J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
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Revelation - the apocalypse

Apokalypsis - the disclosure of things previously unknown



Revelation 17:5 upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth



So you are telling me this is a reference to 539BC.....

Seriously PW, give up this doctrine of yours, it is poison
 
Nov 23, 2013
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but revelation was written after that in da year 98.
This verse comes after "things that must be hereafter".

Revelation 5:6 KJV
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

The Lamb stood AS it had been slain. This is Christ in heaven when he ascended to the Father after his return from hell.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Revelation 5:3 KJV
And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

Jesus wasn't in heaven, he wasn't in the earth, and he wasn't under the earth (the grave). Where was he in this verse?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Yes,Jesus is on a cloud and is told to gather ripe fruit.

A gathering during the GT.
Actually Revelation 14 speaks of judgment and the wrath of God, not the Rapture. Please review it carefully, since it is a part of the Great Tribulation.