The Plan of salvation.

FreeGrace2 · Aug 1, 2022

Why don't you stop pushing this total nonsense. There is NOTHING in my posts that would lead to such a conclusion. Maybe to someone who doesn't have a full grasp of English could come to such a faulty conclusion.

An unregenerate person who believes in Jesus Christ becomes regenerate by God. Now, if you are STILL having trouble comprehending me, please just ask and I would be happy to help you understand.

Of course not. I fully agree. Do.you.understand?

Bluesproverb · Aug 1, 2022

Blade said:

The OP was inaccurate in detailing God's plan of Salvation when it was claimed God's 10 commandments were broken by Adam and Eve.

From that errant platform to open a discussion I think it is understandable the Christian members here correct the error. And each one naturally does so according to their personal Exegesis.

Of course as is somewhat typical in some forums, certainly not all, the aggressive angry pack will enter in.
Their personal hatred for a doctrine leading to personal attack against those they perceive worthy.

Then a thread becomes a battle ground.
There is a difference of course between righteous zeal for the word to that of cantankerous worldly malice.
I think once that natural mind anger enters in order is able to be restored only if we direct the discussion to the right road.

seed_time_harvest · Aug 1, 2022

That was deep

2ndTimothyGroup · Aug 1, 2022

Nehemiah6 said:

Twisting things around upon me won't make you right. Instead, it just means that you need to be untwisted.

ForestGreenCook · Aug 2, 2022

Snacks said:

Sorry, I just found out that you were asking me this question.

Jesus's instruction to his apostles was to go and preach to the lost sheep of the household of Israel. Israel in this scripture is not referring to the whole nation of Israel, but to Jacob whose name God changed to be called no more Jacob, but to be called Israel (Gen 33:28). Jacob/Israel is representative of God's elect (Rom 9:11).

The lost sheep are those, of the elect, that have been born again, that do not have the knowledge of Jesus finished work on the cross, and are going about practicing the works of the old law, thinking that their works will save them eternally.

This harmonizes, also, with the two gates in Matt 7:13-14. The wide gate being the lost sheep of the household of Jacob/Israel, (the elect). The straight gate, being those that have been revealed, by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, the knowledge of the finished work of Jesus on the cross.

"The great commission" is not found in the scriptures. It came from man's interpretation. Mark 15:16 tells them to go into all the known world at that time, and preach the gospel to every creature. We are not to try to guess who has been born again, so the instructions were to preach to every creature (mankind) I hope that this answers your question, if not, let me know.

God adds to the church daily, such as should be delivered (saved) from their quilt of having sinned against God. The "saved" in this scripture does not have reference to eternal deliverance, because they already have that security, but to be delivered from their guilt.

FreeGrace2 · Aug 2, 2022

ForestGreenCook said:

This was at the beginning of Jesus' ministry. But, at the end of His ministry, just before He ascended to heaven, He gave them the Great Commission, which included ALL of mankind. Matt 28, Acts 1.

The obvious conclusion of this is that the non-elect are NOT lost, and therefore, do not need to be found or saved. That means everyone goes to heaven. That puts you directly in the theology of universalism.

What is accurate is that the two words "great commission" aren't found. But the instructions are definitely in the Word.

Matt 28:19,20, Mark 15:16 and Acts 1:1-8 state the Great Commission.

Your ADDITION about the GC being directly only to born again people is totally unbiblical. So where did that idea come from? Or are you just making up stuff?

ForestGreenCook · Aug 2, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

I stand corrected. By our nature, we do very bad things, myself included.

FreeGrace2 said:

The whole chapter of Romans 9, especially verse 11 (the purpose of God, according to ELECTION might stand) If you think that election is not compatible to salvation, then what does election pertain to?

Bluesproverb · Aug 2, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

I understand why FGC would say this of your posts and exegesis: '' You use all of the scriptures that have saved in them as referring to eternal deliverance, that is why you are so determined to make the scriptures say that the unregenerate person can save himself eternally.''

Because that's what you are doing when you insist God's words regarding his calling those he predestined to salvation is untrue. And that anyone can find Jesus at their discretion.

Jesus never said that, Paul never said that, and God's Lamb's Book of Life proves he didn't plan that.

The way you speak to FGC is another proof in itself. Your worldly nature is rage. And your language is vulgar and insulting. It is impossible to defend the good news using personal attack language as you do. You have no respect for FGC. And it shows.
You simply don't know what God is talking about.

That is as it is meant to be. Because it proves God does when he warns us against those who would attempt to mislead even the saints.

God bless you FGC for your patience. You cannot do what God has not. 🕊️😔

ForestGreenCook · Aug 2, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

Are you interpreting Matt 28:19-20 to be saying that there are no born again children in every nation? Rev 5:9 - hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.

The "US" in this scripture are those that Christ died for, which was not all mankind, but only those that God gave him, which were those that God choose before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4) which were those that God predetermined would be adopted as his children by Jesus Christ (Eph 1:5).

FreeGrace2 said:

This is a pretty lame assumption, on your part, sense this command was to preach to the lost sheep OF THE HOUSEHOLD OF ISRAEL. The non-elect are not sheep, but are goats (Matt 25:32).

FreeGrace2 said:

I know that Eph 1 is pretty tough for you to give any credit to man's power to save himself eternally, he did not choose believers, but God choose a people from among those that by his foreknowledge saw that nobody would seek him, no not one. They were adopted by the death of Christ, remitting all of their sins, and were secured an inheritance of heaven.

ForestGreenCook · Aug 2, 2022

Bluesproverb said:

As you know, it is very rare to come across someone else that believes the same doctrine that we defend. I appreciate your standing in my defense. I do not like to take part in angry confrontations, but I do love discussing scripture in defense of the doctrine that I believe Jesus taught, which gives all of the praise and glory to God, and not man. None of us are good enough to have the promise of heaven as our inheritance.

I believe that we are in agreement in the things that I have gleaned from your posts, I am 87 years old and have never run across anyone who agrees with me concerning Matthew 7:13-14. What is your understanding of those scriptures?

FreeGrace2 · Aug 2, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:
btw, since you think that election is to salvation, and you say you are aware of

ForestGreenCook said:

Thanks for supporting my view, although obviously unintentionally. I asked for the very best and most clearly stated verse out of the 17 you mentioned that shows election is to salvation, and you provided a verse that SUPPORTS my view.

Rom 9-
11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: [/QUOTE]
Where in this verse do you see anything about election being for salvation? Nowhere.

However, when you add the next verse:
12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”

Now you can easily see the PURPOSE in election. Service: "the older will serve the younger". You see, it's all about service. Clearly.

Here are some verses to consider regarding election:

Acts 9:15 - But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel.

This verse clearly states the purpose of Paul's election was for service.

And Paul agrees completely. This is Paul's own testimony regarding the road to Damascus incident:

Acts 26:16 - ‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of me.

Here is another example of WHY God elects:

1 Cor 1-
27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are,

None of this is for salvation of the one chosen. All of this is for SERVICE, the purpose of election.

Last example, though there are many more verses that prove this:

John 6-
70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”
71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

So, even the unbeliever Judas was chosen/elected for service.

FreeGrace2 · Aug 2, 2022

Bluesproverb said:

How about this: check out all the verses I have quoted that have "saved" in them and PROVE that they ONLY refer to temporal deliverance. Of course there are such verses. And I NEVER use them in regard to soul salvation.

But since you think I do, prove that I have done so.

This is what I told FCG:
FreeGrace2 said:
Why don't you stop pushing this total nonsense. There is NOTHING in my posts that would lead to such a conclusion. Maybe to someone who doesn't have a full grasp of English could come to such a faulty conclusion.

So you are as guilty of this total nonsense as FCG.

Prove that I am trying to make the Bible say that the unregenerate person can save himself. What garbage. No one can save themself. Utter idiocy. The very reason Jesus went to the cross is because man is UNABLE to save himself.

However, you are tightly wound with Calvinist talking points and bias, and you think that IF an unbeliever CAN believe from his own heart, that amounts to "saving themself". And you are quite wrong.

I KNOW I'm right because Paul's answer to the jailer is EXACTLY what I believe about HOW to be saved. And it REFUTES your opinion about it.

The jailer asked what he MUST DO to be saved. Paul's answer was clear: believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.

That is the gospel

Prove that there are any verses tha speak to peoople being "predestined to salvation". That is a calvinist fallacy. Unbiblical.

Showing your Bible knowledge, eh?

Acts 17-
26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands.
27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.

Do you have any idea what Paul is saying here? Apparently not.

Per v.27, what did God "do" so that they would seek Him"? He placed the human race WHEN and WHERE He did so that they COULD seek Him, REACH OUT for Him and FIND Him.

Doesn't sound very calvinistic to me.

Acts 16:30-31 PROVES that Paul DID SAY that. And John 5:24 PROVES that Jesus DID SAY that.

"rage" huh? The please prove this with evidence. Or keep your opinions to yourself. I speak directly to others. When I see errors of Scriptural knowledge, I correct them. Some people just don't like being corrected. Are you one of them?

Well, well, well. You just keep heaping on the LIES, I see. So, again, prove your claims that I am calling LIES by quoting my "vulgar and insulting" language and cite the post # so everyone who reads this thread can see the evidence.

If you don't do that, everyone who reads this thread will know that your claims about my language are just hot air.

OK, let's go ahead and ADD the "attack language" that you are accusing me of. Don't forget to cite the post # so anyone can check out for themself to see if what you claim is true or not. Kind of like the Berean study method of Acts 17:11.

That is the method I have been using for many years to expose the errors of both Calvinism and Arminianism, and other theologies.

Just go ahead and prove your claims that I am calling LIES. And don't forget to cite the post #.

You accuse me of being vulgar and insulting, and that I have no respect. And then you follow all of that up with this. What a hypocrite.

You mean God chose you to be a hypocrite?? You need to be more clear in your quips.

FreeGrace2 · Aug 2, 2022

ForestGreenCook said:

Of course not. But why would you think the GC involves born again people? The charge is clear; the disciples/apostles were commanded to "go into all the world (every nation) and preach the gospel to everyone (not just the born again, as you apparently opine), and to "teach them everything I have commanded YOU (the 11)".

What??!! Where do you get such ideas? Did you even read the verse? It is about redeeming through Christ's sacrifice. You want it to mean ONLY SOME out of every peoples.

Then please explain Cor 5:19 - that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

Keep in mind 2 verses that precedes v.19-
14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.
15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

I know you are going to argue that the "all" in these 2 verses only mean "all of the elect". But there is NO supporting evidence within the entire chapter for that conclusion. The "all" means exactly what it says, "all". Christ died for all. Period after "all".

Thanks for citing a verse that supports my claim about election being for service. The "us" in v.4 is clearly defined in 1:19 as "us who believe". So the "us" in v.4 can be replaced with "believers" and you get the same meaning.

God chose believers, who are in Christ, before the foundation of the world, TO BE (purpose clause) holy and blameless (lifestyle service).

There is NOTHING about being chosen for salvation here, or any other verse.

I have debunked this LIE several times now. So you should stop LYING about what I am doing. Man cannot save himself. That is why Jesus Christ came to earth, and went to the cross.

The "us" in v.4 is clearly defined in 1:19 as "us who believe". So you are wrong.

How do you explain 1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

FreeGrace2 · Aug 2, 2022

ForestGreenCook said:

My goal is to correct errors, not so much for you or those who have the same viewpoint, but for those who read these threads and forums looking for guidance on what to believe, since there is so much disagreement among evangelicals.

iow, I am giving THEM logical and biblical answers that they will have to sort out and compare with the responses you guys give.

GRACE_ambassador · Aug 2, 2022

Blade said:

You mean "Derailing the thread"?

GRACE_ambassador · Aug 2, 2022

ForestGreenCook said:

Appreciate this humble attitude: Far BETTER than "biting and devouring one another"?

Magenta · Aug 2, 2022

GRACE_ambassador said:

Galatians 5:14-15~ The entire law is fulfilled in a single decree: "Love your neighbor as yourself." But if you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out, or you will be consumed by one another.

Jackson123 · Aug 2, 2022

seed_time_harvest said:

Man love darkness in the same time man love salvation and God offer and invite whosoever believe in the Son will be save

Bluesproverb · Aug 2, 2022

ForestGreenCook said:

A pastor once said after a foray onto the various discussion boards he thought to visit and after encountering fake pastors and professing Christians that proved themselves not at all, ''the Devil's tongue can never know nor discuss God's words.''

To your question about Matthew 7, I think it links to Luke 14.
We are all born the same way into this world. A wide open plethora for vice and appetites,fears,terror, poverty, and death, guaranteed.

In the midst of it all where Satan is lord, there is a little twinkle that catches our attentions when we are let to have the eyes to see.

It guides us through the jungle of darkness, like the Red Sea parting in its day. The great deep secured on each side while a path through the currents led to a promise of fruitful, peaceful, joyous land.

That's God. Jesus is the twinkle. And we are the journeymen.

While the chaos around us is the everyday, we stay on the path of the word.
We navigate through the world that has no idea what it means to live unafraid.Or where we're going.

That's Matthew 7.

ForestGreenCook · Aug 3, 2022

Bluesproverb said:

A pastor once said after a foray onto the various discussion boards he thought to visit and after encountering fake pastors and professing Christians that proved themselves not at all, ''the Devil's tongue can never know nor discuss God's words.''

To your question about Matthew 7, I think it links to Luke 14.
We are all born the same way into this world. A wide open plethora for vice and appetites,fears,terror, poverty, and death, guaranteed.

In the midst of it all where Satan is lord, there is a little twinkle that catches our attentions when we are let to have the eyes to see.

It guides us through the jungle of darkness, like the Red Sea parting in its day. The great deep secured on each side while a path through the currents led to a promise of fruitful, peaceful, joyous land.

That's God. Jesus is the twinkle. And we are the journeymen.

While the chaos around us is the everyday, we stay on the path of the word.
We navigate through the world that has no idea what it means to live unafraid.Or where we're going.

That's Matthew 7.

I am sorry, but your comments were to generalizes with your attention on the whole chapter 7. Could you draw your attention to the two verses of 13 & 14.,? thank you

The Plan of salvation.

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