The Number 40
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40 is a time of testing our faith- do we believe all that God has said, will we submit to and come under His authority and Will for our lives, do we love Him, do we know Him....
Exodus is the only book in the Bible with 40 chapters. It’s all about testing- Moses testing God, God testing Moses, the Israelites testing God, God testing the Israelites, God proving Himself faithful over and over.....
Exodus is the only book in the Bible with 40 chapters. It’s all about testing- Moses testing God, God testing Moses, the Israelites testing God, God testing the Israelites, God proving Himself faithful over and over.....
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See the Jewish Encyclopedia for the number 40.
http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/6248-forty-the-number
See the Jewish Encyclopedia for the number 40.
http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/6248-forty-the-number
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Yes, the number 40 all by itself has esoteric meanings in Jewish culture (as well as other cultures), but when used in the phrase "40 days and 40 nights", it is simply idiomatic Hebrew meaning "for a long time".
If Moses were writing in English, he could have said of Noah's flood: "it rained cats and dogs for forty days and forty nights". Both parts of the sentence are idiomatic; 'translation' - "it rained really hard for a long time".
If Moses were writing in English, he could have said of Noah's flood: "it rained cats and dogs for forty days and forty nights". Both parts of the sentence are idiomatic; 'translation' - "it rained really hard for a long time".
Why does the account record God saying it will rain for a definite period of time and then confirm more than once that it indeed rained for that exact specified period of time if what it really meant to say was 'God said it would rain for a while, and it did rain for a while'?
The exact number of days Noah was in the ark, how long the waters took to recede, the exact day of the year he could see land again and the exact day of the year he was able to step out of the ark are given here. Those are all numbers much greater than 40 and they are all very specific, so why in the world would you insist that '40 days' is a completely arbitrary and indeterminate number?
The exact number of days Noah was in the ark, how long the waters took to recede, the exact day of the year he could see land again and the exact day of the year he was able to step out of the ark are given here. Those are all numbers much greater than 40 and they are all very specific, so why in the world would you insist that '40 days' is a completely arbitrary and indeterminate number?
Yes
And it is written like a historical, factual account, giving specific details about Noah's age, the dimension of the ark, precise dates and measurements.
I don't see any basis for calling 40 here an estimate, especially given the precision of the rest of the numbers involved in the account, but even if 40 was the only number in the whole passage, why presume it's some kind of idiom?
@Kavik why are you saying it's only an idiom? Is there some conflict you see if it's not? Is there some other extra biblical source where it's used as an idiom that you're basing this on? What evidence or reasons do you have aart from 'because you say so'?
And it is written like a historical, factual account, giving specific details about Noah's age, the dimension of the ark, precise dates and measurements.
I don't see any basis for calling 40 here an estimate, especially given the precision of the rest of the numbers involved in the account, but even if 40 was the only number in the whole passage, why presume it's some kind of idiom?
@Kavik why are you saying it's only an idiom? Is there some conflict you see if it's not? Is there some other extra biblical source where it's used as an idiom that you're basing this on? What evidence or reasons do you have aart from 'because you say so'?
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Sound like that what you would write, it is not what the finger of God wrote, the handwriting on the wall of the pages of scripture.
Yes forty days is a long time to rain or not eat. Long enough to cover the mountains at that time period. or long enough to tempt Christ to eat some bread.(Mathew 4 )
Four of itself represent universal .North south east and west .Like the four rivers representing the going out of the gospel from the presence of God typified by the word East. . . assigning the word East to Christ. east like the phrase "bosom of Abraham" to represent the invisible presence of God. From there it waters the whole world (land) .
40 representing the whole or 400 the time in Egypt as bondage to the world system. . . Without parables the poetic language of Christ ,Christ spoke not .Tying to literalize everything simply takes away the understanding you could have . Its like writing another book. One perfect book of the law.
Yes forty days is a long time to rain or not eat. Long enough to cover the mountains at that time period. or long enough to tempt Christ to eat some bread.(Mathew 4 )
Four of itself represent universal .North south east and west .Like the four rivers representing the going out of the gospel from the presence of God typified by the word East. . . assigning the word East to Christ. east like the phrase "bosom of Abraham" to represent the invisible presence of God. From there it waters the whole world (land) .
40 representing the whole or 400 the time in Egypt as bondage to the world system. . . Without parables the poetic language of Christ ,Christ spoke not .Tying to literalize everything simply takes away the understanding you could have . Its like writing another book. One perfect book of the law.
The flood account does indeed use very specific numbers for measurements, periods of time, etc. Are the numbers used more in the literal sense, or are they more esoteric in meaning? I think an argument could be made for either; but the expression ‘40 days and 40 nights’ is still idiomatic. To explain why it’s idiomatic is like trying to explain why “raining cats and dogs?” is idiomatic – I don’t have an answer for either; it just is. That’s the way these phases work in these languages – they’re not literal.
The author weaves both the idiom and the number 40 (all by itself) into the narrative. The use of 40 alone seems to carry the more esoteric meaning associated with that number, but the phrase ‘40 days and 40 nights’ is still idiomatic. Chapter 7 verse 24 may provide some clue as to how long this particular period was – seems maybe somewhere around 150 days or so. Could it have been a literal 40 days and nights? Sure, but given the idiomatic use of the phrase, I would think if it were, the author would have provided something to clue the reader in that it wasn’t meant to be taken in the idiomatic sense.
This idiomatic phase seems to occur here and there in Biblical texts – actually, outside of religious texts, there’s really not a whole heck of a lot else with respect to ancient Hebrew literature, writings, or inscriptions, so no – there really are no extra-Biblical examples of its use that I’m aware of, nor has this particular expression survived in the modern language.
As an aside, looking into a possible origin, the idiomatic expression may have arisen from a very ancient way of tracking the year (not just in the Middle East) in 9ths comprising a 40-day cycle. There are numerous ancient writings and artifacts that attest to a 40-day cycle as something once carefully tracked. If indeed this was the case, it’s quite possible this was the origin of the idiomatic expression. So, yes, originally a literal count, but over time came to be used more idiomatically for any long period of time.
The author weaves both the idiom and the number 40 (all by itself) into the narrative. The use of 40 alone seems to carry the more esoteric meaning associated with that number, but the phrase ‘40 days and 40 nights’ is still idiomatic. Chapter 7 verse 24 may provide some clue as to how long this particular period was – seems maybe somewhere around 150 days or so. Could it have been a literal 40 days and nights? Sure, but given the idiomatic use of the phrase, I would think if it were, the author would have provided something to clue the reader in that it wasn’t meant to be taken in the idiomatic sense.
This idiomatic phase seems to occur here and there in Biblical texts – actually, outside of religious texts, there’s really not a whole heck of a lot else with respect to ancient Hebrew literature, writings, or inscriptions, so no – there really are no extra-Biblical examples of its use that I’m aware of, nor has this particular expression survived in the modern language.
As an aside, looking into a possible origin, the idiomatic expression may have arisen from a very ancient way of tracking the year (not just in the Middle East) in 9ths comprising a 40-day cycle. There are numerous ancient writings and artifacts that attest to a 40-day cycle as something once carefully tracked. If indeed this was the case, it’s quite possible this was the origin of the idiomatic expression. So, yes, originally a literal count, but over time came to be used more idiomatically for any long period of time.
E
In a historical context. An author writes things literally. So that people in the future who are reading what was written know exactly what happen. They do not use idiomic terms, or things whihc are not taken literal. Because they KNOW that would confuse the reader. And historical narrative is not meant to do this
Genesis is a historical narrative, Spoken by God to Moses. Moses basically let God use his hands to write the narrative.
I think we can know. That if God said 40. he meant 40. And not some unknown confusing term.
Yes more than a literal sense added to it.
Its more how can we hear God who has no form?
The inspired and signified language of God .The things seen to help us understand the eternal things of God not seen. . . spoken of in Revelation 1:1. It is designed to give more than one level of understanding sometimes three. .Without parables Christ spoke not, purposely hiding the unseen understanding from the literalist that have no faith coming from the understanding of parables.
Deuteronomy 32:2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:
Word metaphors to describe the unseen work of the Spirit of Christ.
It was God's desired to teach us of His doctrines that fall like rain from above to indicate the direction of inspiration. . . or water, dew or little rain .
If another came and said inspired from earth as cats and dogs then we would know where the power came from that they are trying to bind in heaven. (lying spirits) we compare the spiritual to the spiritual. . . . . faith to faith. God did not uses . cats and dogs or tears of God. Those are human idioms .
40 or 400 the time of testing the time it rained and men suffered as a witness to the test.
James 3:15This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
Three levels. The first historical. When Jesus taught using parables he was not describing historical events but the spiritual witness working in the affairs of men. with a few exceptions like these parables the bible gives us a accurate account of things and conversations which did occur. The second level the moral as to the letter it kills. . warning us, preventing anarchy. And the third the gospel meaning relating to salvation. The word of God is alive, as the one source of faith. If we lose the unseen spiritual understanding as the foundation . Then it would make me wonder as spoken of in Luke . When he does comes on the last day will he find faith or the literalist walking by sight as personal experiences coming from thier own minds?.
Its more how can we hear God who has no form?
The inspired and signified language of God .The things seen to help us understand the eternal things of God not seen. . . spoken of in Revelation 1:1. It is designed to give more than one level of understanding sometimes three. .Without parables Christ spoke not, purposely hiding the unseen understanding from the literalist that have no faith coming from the understanding of parables.
Deuteronomy 32:2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:
Word metaphors to describe the unseen work of the Spirit of Christ.
It was God's desired to teach us of His doctrines that fall like rain from above to indicate the direction of inspiration. . . or water, dew or little rain .
If another came and said inspired from earth as cats and dogs then we would know where the power came from that they are trying to bind in heaven. (lying spirits) we compare the spiritual to the spiritual. . . . . faith to faith. God did not uses . cats and dogs or tears of God. Those are human idioms .
40 or 400 the time of testing the time it rained and men suffered as a witness to the test.
James 3:15This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
Three levels. The first historical. When Jesus taught using parables he was not describing historical events but the spiritual witness working in the affairs of men. with a few exceptions like these parables the bible gives us a accurate account of things and conversations which did occur. The second level the moral as to the letter it kills. . warning us, preventing anarchy. And the third the gospel meaning relating to salvation. The word of God is alive, as the one source of faith. If we lose the unseen spiritual understanding as the foundation . Then it would make me wonder as spoken of in Luke . When he does comes on the last day will he find faith or the literalist walking by sight as personal experiences coming from thier own minds?.