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Does God Require His OT "ritual" of water baptism, for us, Today, Under HIS PURE GRACE?


  • Total voters
    11

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#61
The scripture you reference states one was sealed after believing something. (Eph 1:13)

That something was the word of truth, the gospel of salvation. Consider that is exactly what the Apostle Peter's instructions entailed.
After Peter spoke of Jesus' death, burial and resurrection the crowd believed him and obeyed the word of truth, in fact the gospel of salvation: they repented, got baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus and received the gift of the Holy Ghost. The scripture goes on to state that 3,000 were saved that day alone.

Acts 2:40-41
"And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls."


The same components (belief, repentance, water baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost) were required of individuals, Gentiles, Samaritans and Jews. These are detailed in many other examples recorded in the Gospels, Acts and Paul's Epistles.
That's called ' post hoc rationalization '. What does eph 1 .13 say ? And what does Acts 2 .38 say ? And ! what does Acts 8 :12 -18 say ? They are all different.
 

throughfaith

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#63
Jesus said unless a man is born of water and Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. (John 3:3-5) Many state this scripture does not pertain to water baptism. However, throughout scripture both water baptism in Jesus' name and being filled with the Holy Ghost are recorded as part of the NT spiritual rebirth.
But never in Any of Paul's epistles ( 13 ) which is really odd ,if your right .
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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#64
That's called ' post hoc rationalization '. What does eph 1 .13 say ? And what does Acts 2 .38 say ? And ! what does Acts 8 :12 -18 say ? They are all different.
They are not all different. They all include specifics that people respond to in obedience to the word of truth upon belief in same.
 
Feb 24, 2019
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#65
The only thing that divides souls is self.

Love unites, self fragments.

And the world is becoming more fragmented by the minute, precisely because of self.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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#66
But never in Any of Paul's epistles ( 13 ) which is really odd ,if your right .
Paul knew baptism was to be in Jesus’ name:
Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 1 Cor 1:13

Those Paul water baptized:
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 1 Cor 1:14-16

And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized. Acts 18:5

The elder unto the wellbeloved Gaius, whom I love in the truth.
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
For I rejoiced greatly, when the brethren came and testified of the truth that is in thee, even as thou walkest in the truth. 3 John 1-3

I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted (devoted) themselves to the ministry of the saints,)1 Cor 16:15


Paul’s Epistles - Spirit and water baptism
(Rom 6:3-5, 1 Cor 1:15-16, 1 Cor 12:13, Gal 3:27, Eph 4:4-5, Col 2:12, Titus 3:5-6, Heb 4:1-2)

Rom 6:3-5 “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:” THIS IS WATER BAPTISM. HOLY GHOST BAPTISM IS DONE BY GOD, AND IS NOT DONE INTO JESUS CHRIST.

1 Cor 1:15-16 “Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.” ALL WATER BAPTISMS WERE PERFORMED USING A NAME. (JESUS)

1 Cor 12:13 “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”

Gal 3:2 “This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?” SPIRIT BAPTISM After hearing about the need to receive the Holy Ghost one steps out in faith to receive the gift.

Gal 3:27 (Water Baptism) “For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”

Eph 4:4-5 (One Spirit, one water baptism) “There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism,”

Col 2:12 (Water Baptism) “Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”

Titus 3:5-6 (Water and Spirit Baptism) “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;”

Heb 4:1-2 “Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.”
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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#68
But never in Any of Paul's epistles ( 13 ) which is really odd ,if your right .
This is not a true statement. See post #66. Also, one must realize that Paul's epistles are written to those who have already received their spiritual rebirth. Paul makes points of explanation in regards to same in many cases.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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#69
That's called ' post hoc rationalization '. What does eph 1 .13 say ? And what does Acts 2 .38 say ? And ! what does Acts 8 :12 -18 say ? They are all different.
No doctrine of Scripture is to be built on individual verses alone. Every scripture pertaining to a subject is to be placed together in order that the whole truth can be viewed in light of all verses not just one.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#70
No doctrine of Scripture is to be built on individual verses alone. Every scripture pertaining to a subject is to be placed together in order that the whole truth can be viewed in light of all verses not just one.
That's not a great approach. I would say that each verse stands within the context of each chapter, which stands within the context of that book / letter . So the first approach is to understand that passage in its immediate context first.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#71
Paul knew baptism was to be in Jesus’ name:
Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 1 Cor 1:13

Those Paul water baptized:
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 1 Cor 1:14-16

And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized. Acts 18:5

The elder unto the wellbeloved Gaius, whom I love in the truth.
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
For I rejoiced greatly, when the brethren came and testified of the truth that is in thee, even as thou walkest in the truth. 3 John 1-3

I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted (devoted) themselves to the ministry of the saints,)1 Cor 16:15


Paul’s Epistles - Spirit and water baptism
(Rom 6:3-5, 1 Cor 1:15-16, 1 Cor 12:13, Gal 3:27, Eph 4:4-5, Col 2:12, Titus 3:5-6, Heb 4:1-2)

Rom 6:3-5 “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:” THIS IS WATER BAPTISM. HOLY GHOST BAPTISM IS DONE BY GOD, AND IS NOT DONE INTO JESUS CHRIST.

1 Cor 1:15-16 “Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.” ALL WATER BAPTISMS WERE PERFORMED USING A NAME. (JESUS)

1 Cor 12:13 “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”

Gal 3:2 “This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?” SPIRIT BAPTISM After hearing about the need to receive the Holy Ghost one steps out in faith to receive the gift.

Gal 3:27 (Water Baptism) “For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”

Eph 4:4-5 (One Spirit, one water baptism) “There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism,”

Col 2:12 (Water Baptism) “Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”

Titus 3:5-6 (Water and Spirit Baptism) “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;”

Heb 4:1-2 “Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.”
No ,your adding to scripture 'water ' when it isnt water .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#72
Paul knew baptism was to be in Jesus’ name:
Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 1 Cor 1:13

Those Paul water baptized:
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 1 Cor 1:14-16

And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized. Acts 18:5

The elder unto the wellbeloved Gaius, whom I love in the truth.
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
For I rejoiced greatly, when the brethren came and testified of the truth that is in thee, even as thou walkest in the truth. 3 John 1-3

I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted (devoted) themselves to the ministry of the saints,)1 Cor 16:15


Paul’s Epistles - Spirit and water baptism
(Rom 6:3-5, 1 Cor 1:15-16, 1 Cor 12:13, Gal 3:27, Eph 4:4-5, Col 2:12, Titus 3:5-6, Heb 4:1-2)

Rom 6:3-5 “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:” THIS IS WATER BAPTISM. HOLY GHOST BAPTISM IS DONE BY GOD, AND IS NOT DONE INTO JESUS CHRIST.

1 Cor 1:15-16 “Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.” ALL WATER BAPTISMS WERE PERFORMED USING A NAME. (JESUS)

1 Cor 12:13 “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”

Gal 3:2 “This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?” SPIRIT BAPTISM After hearing about the need to receive the Holy Ghost one steps out in faith to receive the gift.

Gal 3:27 (Water Baptism) “For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”

Eph 4:4-5 (One Spirit, one water baptism) “There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism,”

Col 2:12 (Water Baptism) “Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”

Titus 3:5-6 (Water and Spirit Baptism) “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;”

Heb 4:1-2 “Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.”
There is water baptism in scripture and there is Spirit Baptism . You seem to apply Water when its not water ?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#73
This is not a true statement. See post #66
Acts 2.38 is sadly one of ,the most twisted scriptures in the NT .

Again ,why is Acts 2.38 used as the plan of salvation today ?
-Its chapter 2 in a book of 28 chapters ?
- Its a transitional book
- Peter is addressing Israel/ Jews
36¶Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

- The objection is this part.
39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

But in context, as Peter has no Gentile in mind ,he's saying " For the promise is unto you( Jews ) , and to your children( Jews ) , and to all that are afar off,( Jews ) even as many as the Lord our God shall call.( Jews ,as Gentiles are not in the picture until After Israels rejection in Acts 7 )

- The Order is rightly seen as reading 38¶Then Peter said unto them,
1 Repent,
2and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins
3) , and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

This is not found in any description Paul gives later.
The commentaries literally do linguistic gymnastics, with 'the greek ' to try make it sound like what we see after in the epistles. Its hilarious the amount of dancing around is made of this verse to make it say something it actually doesn't say . The verse scarcely stands as it reads ,given by so many commentaries.

Peter is saying things to this crowd that doesn't apply to us . " whom ye have crucified , both Lord and Christ
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#74
No doctrine of Scripture is to be built on individual verses alone. Every scripture pertaining to a subject is to be placed together in order that the whole truth can be viewed in light of all verses not just one.
What really happens is Acts 2.38 gets used as doctrine, because of a doctrine already assumed ,instead of understanding the verse in its immediate context first .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#75
They are not all different. They all include specifics that people respond to in obedience to the word of truth upon belief in same.
I'm referring to the order in which the Holy Spirit is given .
Today its Eph 1.13 . This is consistent after the transitions in Acts ,which should never be used prescriptively imo .
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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#76
No ,your adding to scripture 'water ' when it isnt water .
Paul makes it clear that the baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus is water baptism. See Acts 19:1-6 below. After rebaptizing the disciples Paul lays hands upon them and they receive the Holy Ghost.


Acts 19:2-6 (Disciples who did not realize they had to water baptized in Jesus name)

He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#77
Paul makes it clear that the baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus is water baptism. See Acts 19:1-6 below. After rebaptizing the disciples Paul lays hands upon them and they receive the Holy Ghost.


Acts 19:2-6 (Disciples who did not realize they had to water baptized in Jesus name)

He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Let's just say that even if it said somewhere in Acts that a person was saved by standing on his head ,I'm still going to look to books such as Romans, Galations, Ephesians ect for how a person is saved today. 80% of Christians are duped into taking the book of Acts prescriptively.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,247
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#78
No ,your adding to scripture 'water ' when it isnt water .
As I mentioned in order to rightly divide the word requires a study of all relevant scriptures pertaining to topics.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#79
Paul makes it clear that the baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus is water baptism. See Acts 19:1-6 below. After rebaptizing the disciples Paul lays hands upon them and they receive the Holy Ghost.


Acts 19:2-6 (Disciples who did not realize they had to water baptized in Jesus name)

He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Your stuck in Acts aren't you ? Now read Ephesians 1.13 .