The Lake of Fire
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Excuse me Journeyman, Paul may not use the term Lake of fire in this particular verse, but John does regarding the beast. Rev.19:20 states that the beast is thrown into the lake of fire, along with the false prophet. In fact they are its first recipients. The lake of fire is also the same place that Satan and his angels will be thrown into, designated as everlasting fire. - (Matt.25:41)
"But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. " (Rev.19:20)
"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
"And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming."
The reference to destroying the beast with "the breath of His mouth" is most likely referring to the "double-edge sword" which is said to proceed from the Lord's mouth and which is figurate of the spoken word of God. When the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, all of the wicked will be gathered and the Lord will speak and they will all fall dead. Their spirits will depart from their bodies and birds/vultures that will have gathered by the angel in Rev.19:17, will gorge themselves on their flesh.
The lake of fire is a literal, tangible place of punishment where Satan, his angels, the beast, false prophet and any human being whose names are not found written in the book of life, who will be separated from God in torment in the lake of fire.
"But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. " (Rev.19:20)
"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
"And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming."
The reference to destroying the beast with "the breath of His mouth" is most likely referring to the "double-edge sword" which is said to proceed from the Lord's mouth and which is figurate of the spoken word of God. When the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, all of the wicked will be gathered and the Lord will speak and they will all fall dead. Their spirits will depart from their bodies and birds/vultures that will have gathered by the angel in Rev.19:17, will gorge themselves on their flesh.
The lake of fire is a literal, tangible place of punishment where Satan, his angels, the beast, false prophet and any human being whose names are not found written in the book of life, who will be separated from God in torment in the lake of fire.
Understand this Matthew, not every human being is a child of God. When speaking to the Pharisees and the scribes, etc., Jesus told then that they were children of the devil, that he was their father.
Once a person dies without Christ, the die in their sins. They will have died being unreconciled to God, which also means that His wrath still rests upon them. Those who die in this state, for them God's love, grace and mercy is no longer in operation for them. As Jesus said, "every idle word that men shall speak, the shall give an account thereof on the day of judgement, i.e. the great white throne judgment.
There is not one verse of scripture that states or infers that punishment in the lake of fire as being temporary. However, the when speaking of punishment, the words eternal, everlasting, torment and forever and ever, are the words supporting on-going punishment.
As Paul said, "it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God."
Once a person dies without Christ, the die in their sins. They will have died being unreconciled to God, which also means that His wrath still rests upon them. Those who die in this state, for them God's love, grace and mercy is no longer in operation for them. As Jesus said, "every idle word that men shall speak, the shall give an account thereof on the day of judgement, i.e. the great white throne judgment.
There is not one verse of scripture that states or infers that punishment in the lake of fire as being temporary. However, the when speaking of punishment, the words eternal, everlasting, torment and forever and ever, are the words supporting on-going punishment.
As Paul said, "it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God."
I believe the Kingdom of God is wherever God is.
I believe he started it already and upon his return, what existed is transformed complete. Whatever isn't able to survive his coming is "rooted out", "burned up", or other biblical phrase that defines an end to.
I can see you believe this. Most of christiandom and all of Judaism (who wait for a Messiah) agree with you. I do not for previously stated reasons.
You believe so, but when I read the many scriptures of how Christ is God in power, or how our Creator owns everything, I don't need to change my interpretation of Rev.11:15. Do you?
I believe he started it already and upon his return, what existed is transformed complete. Whatever isn't able to survive his coming is "rooted out", "burned up", or other biblical phrase that defines an end to.
I can see you believe this. Most of christiandom and all of Judaism (who wait for a Messiah) agree with you. I do not for previously stated reasons.
You believe so, but when I read the many scriptures of how Christ is God in power, or how our Creator owns everything, I don't need to change my interpretation of Rev.11:15. Do you?
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Rev.11:15 and 12:10-12 which is the 7th trumpet/3rd woe, is when Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven and restricted to the earth. When Adam and Eve disobeyed God, the authority of the earth was given to Satan. Him and his angels being cast out is apart of the process of the authority of the earth reverting from Satan back to God and mankind. (Luke 4:6)
Rev.11:15 and 12:10-12 which is the 7th trumpet/3rd woe, is when Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven and restricted to the earth. When Adam and Eve disobeyed God, the authority of the earth was given to Satan. Him and his angels being cast out is apart of the process of the authority of the earth reverting from Satan back to God and mankind. (Luke 4:6)
As I told you and presented the scripture, (now pay attention) John in Rev.19:20 states the following regarding the beast and the false prophet:
"But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur."
Therefore, since John makes it very clear that the beast and the false prophet will be thrown into the lake of fire, Paul's reference is synonymous with the beasts fate, just said a different way.
Read it and believe it! Stop sidestepping the facts.
"But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur."
Therefore, since John makes it very clear that the beast and the false prophet will be thrown into the lake of fire, Paul's reference is synonymous with the beasts fate, just said a different way.
Read it and believe it! Stop sidestepping the facts.
Journeyman dont take this the wrong way, but why are you worried about the lake of fire? It shouldnt be your concern if you truly believe. GOd is just and will do what is right. JEsus has saved you if you repented and believed He doesnt want anyone to perish.
Examine your heart is there some sin you havent confessed and are worried about everlasting torments?
Examine your heart is there some sin you havent confessed and are worried about everlasting torments?
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Nobody is sayig Jesus isnt ruling Heaven right now and has delagated his saints on earth to look after it too. The difference between you and I journeyman is Jesus hasnt returned to earth the same way he went up, that is a promise and I for one look forward to. Because we WILL ALL get to see Him face to face. Till then we redeem the time.
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I not worried about myself. I'm concerned about false teaching.
Our difference isn't that Jesus hasn't returned in person, but the manner in which he will return.
It's likely when Jesus ascended to heaven, at that time, his disciples thought he would return exactly as he left, as a Jewish man wearing the same robe, sandals, etc. But later Paul said,
the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire 2Thes.1:8. And 2Pet.3:10-12 describe the same event.
It's pretty clear they describe the very coming of Jesus like an ocean of fire, that will leave no more doubt, from which all evil comes.
Our difference isn't that Jesus hasn't returned in person, but the manner in which he will return.
It's likely when Jesus ascended to heaven, at that time, his disciples thought he would return exactly as he left, as a Jewish man wearing the same robe, sandals, etc. But later Paul said,
the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire 2Thes.1:8. And 2Pet.3:10-12 describe the same event.
It's pretty clear they describe the very coming of Jesus like an ocean of fire, that will leave no more doubt, from which all evil comes.
Revelation 20:13-15 (KJV)
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Context determines meaning, not a stand alone verse. Man shall live by “every word” that proceeds from the mouth of God, not a few that support our ideas about Him.
Since Scripture states that “no man” took or could take His life, that it was in fact predestined, then in fact it was exactly what God wanted, and it achieved His purpose.
17 Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”
Let’s look at a breakdown of a Hebrew word in Genesis, "Barasheet" (the first word in Genesis in Hebrew translated as "in the beginning") and breaking it up into its pictographs, then translating those we get:
"The Son of God [will be] destroyed (or killed) [by his own] hand (or effort) [on a] cross."
Bet-Resh; "Bara" = "Son of"
Aleph = "God; the first"
Shin = "destroy"
Yod = "effort" or "hand"
Tav = "cross"
God has never been surprised or thwarted in His purposes.
Since Scripture states that “no man” took or could take His life, that it was in fact predestined, then in fact it was exactly what God wanted, and it achieved His purpose.
17 Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”
Let’s look at a breakdown of a Hebrew word in Genesis, "Barasheet" (the first word in Genesis in Hebrew translated as "in the beginning") and breaking it up into its pictographs, then translating those we get:
"The Son of God [will be] destroyed (or killed) [by his own] hand (or effort) [on a] cross."
Bet-Resh; "Bara" = "Son of"
Aleph = "God; the first"
Shin = "destroy"
Yod = "effort" or "hand"
Tav = "cross"
God has never been surprised or thwarted in His purposes.
Actually no your placing an interpetation that isnt there. The disciples did not think Jesus would return exactly as he had left as you say 'a jewish man wearing the same robes, sandals etc' where do you even get that from?? JEsus was resurrected and had been glorified and transfigured. It was just meaning he would return with the clouds. Because a cloud had taken him up, his return would be with the clouds.
Simple. Dont try and overanalyse it, and Peter and Paul agree on that too. Also, believers will see Jesus first because we believers recognise Him and hear Him. Every eye will see him.
Simple. Dont try and overanalyse it, and Peter and Paul agree on that too. Also, believers will see Jesus first because we believers recognise Him and hear Him. Every eye will see him.