The kingdom of God is not coming with signs that can be observed?

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John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#41
Take the time to compare the the Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven.
I have studied it extensively. The Lord used both terms because both kingdoms were at hand during his earthly ministry. The kingdom of heaven being physical rule on earth, the kingdom of God being the spiritual kingdom or righteousness that lives within the believer. Do you believe the word God and heaven are synonymous? Things that are different are not the same.
 

Jesusfollower

Active member
Oct 21, 2021
352
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jamaica
#42
That makes sense in a way. Is it your belief then that the "kingdom" Jesus referred to in Luke 17:20 is the one that He sets up on earth at the end of the age, not the one He established by His death and resurrection?
yes, i think it is about the Kingdom he sets on earth on his return.

Blessings,

JF
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,436
3,685
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#43
The Pharisees who where asking Jesus to tell them when the kingdom would come had a purely physical idea of the Kingdom of God.. Jesus was trying to dispel from their minds the belief that the kingdom would not come until the physical kingdom was established on earth.
Yes, that makes sense. That seems to be the key right there.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,465
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#44
But it came with a lot of fanfare, signs & wonders, etc. That's why I'm curious what Jesus meant when He said the kingdom doesn't come with signs, or "observation." The NASB and the KJV/NKJV translate it differently and they seem to have slightly different meanings.
I believe by experience that the wicked seek signs in order to believe, yet all who already believe experience signs and wonders.
When we believe God, He shows us He isin charge one way or another.
 

Beckie

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
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#45
I have studied it extensively. The Lord used both terms because both kingdoms were at hand during his earthly ministry. The kingdom of heaven being physical rule on earth, the kingdom of God being the spiritual kingdom or righteousness that lives within the believer. Do you believe the word God and heaven are synonymous? Things that are different are not the same.
The Scriptures point out there are the same . Please use the Scripture to point out what you believe to be different in the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God . I gave scripture support in posts # 37 and 40
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,177
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#46
The Scriptures point out there are the same . Please use the Scripture to point out what you believe to be different in the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God . I gave scripture support in posts # 37 and 40
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. God and heaven are not interchangeable.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#47
The Scriptures point out there are the same . Please use the Scripture to point out what you believe to be different in the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God . I gave scripture support in posts # 37 and 40
Answer me this, when the Lord was speaking, did he literally say kingdom of heaven or kingdom of God? Did Matthew hear one thing and Luke heard another? Or...through the Holy Spirit, were they lead to write exactly what they wrote each for a specific reason?

Mat 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Luk 18:16 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
 

Beckie

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
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#48
Answer me this, when the Lord was speaking, did he literally say kingdom of heaven or kingdom of God? Did Matthew hear one thing and Luke heard another? Or...through the Holy Spirit, were they lead to write exactly what they wrote each for a specific reason?

Mat 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Luk 18:16 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
Your dogma means more to you then the Word of God . The words are interchangeable you choose not to believe .
 

chess-player

Active member
Jul 14, 2022
205
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#49
My King James Bible trumps all those.😉
Your KJV is an idol that legalistic people love to shove in other believers' faces because they are smart enough to choose a translation they actually understand.

This discussion is over.
 
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
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#50
I believe by experience that the wicked seek signs in order to believe, yet all who already believe experience signs and wonders.
When we believe God, He shows us He isin charge one way or another.
you make an excellent point that has fascinated me for a long time now. i see God working in a miraculous way almost daily. it's not necessarily someone is healed or something is done that humanity could not do, but it's little things by just observing nature and things.

then i know some i witness to tell me, if i would see just one miracle i would believe. but they were in a car wreck where everyone died but them, they had things happen for them that they dismissed as coincidence. and i say, you have seen signs that God exist. you are just blind and will remain blind until you want to see God from deep within your soul.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,177
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#51
Your dogma means more to you then the Word of God . The words are interchangeable you choose not to believe .
Are the two words the same here? Did God create God or heaven?
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Same here? Did God call the firmament God? or Heaven?
Genesis 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

I could go on and on and on and on...
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,177
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#52
Your KJV is an idol that legalistic people love to shove in other believers' faces because they are smart enough to choose a translation they actually understand.

This discussion is over.
Ah the old idol argument.
 

Beckie

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
2,516
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#53
Are the two words the same here? Did God create God or heaven?
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Same here? Did God call the firmament God? or Heaven?
Genesis 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

I could go on and on and on and on...
What is your view on these 2 phrases Holy Spirit Holy Ghost . Are they the same being . Are they one third of the Trinity or 2 sixths?
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,803
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#54
He also said the kingdom of God is within you..
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,177
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113
#55
What is your view on these 2 phrases Holy Spirit Holy Ghost . Are they the same being . Are they one third of the Trinity or 2 sixths?
Are you truly wanting to know? In short, the KJV translators were divinely guided to use the term "Holy Ghost" when it simply refers to the third Person of the blessed Trinity and His activity, thus indicating He is a Person. The KJV likewise uses the term "holy Spirit" or "Holy Spirit" when emphasizing the aspect of His "holiness". Look carefully at all 7 times this term is used and in each case the idea of holiness is directly involved in the context. The term "Holy Ghost" is only used in the NT. There's much more if you're interested.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,177
3,700
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#56
What is your view on these 2 phrases Holy Spirit Holy Ghost . Are they the same being . Are they one third of the Trinity or 2 sixths?[/QUOTE

This is not some spiritual warfare. It is the literal, physical, visible kingdom of this world. It is taken by violence. The Lord will take it by violence at his second coming.

12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,177
3,700
113
#57
This is not some spiritual warfare. It is the literal, physical, visible kingdom of this world. It is taken by violence. The Lord will take it by violence at his second coming.

12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
 

Beckie

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
2,516
939
113
#58
Are you truly wanting to know? In short, the KJV translators were divinely guided to use the term "Holy Ghost" when it simply refers to the third Person of the blessed Trinity and His activity, thus indicating He is a Person. The KJV likewise uses the term "holy Spirit" or "Holy Spirit" when emphasizing the aspect of His "holiness". Look carefully at all 7 times this term is used and in each case the idea of holiness is directly involved in the context. The term "Holy Ghost" is only used in the NT. There's much more if you're interested.
From got questions

Of the modern English translations of the Bible, it is only the King James Version of the Bible which uses the term “Holy Ghost.” It occurs 90 times in the KJV. The term “Holy Spirit” occurs 7 times in the KJV. There is no clear reason as to why the KJV translators used Ghost in most places and then Spirit in a few. The exact same Greek and Hebrew words are translated "ghost" and "spirit" in the KJV in different occurrences of the words. By "ghost," the KJV translators did not intend to communicate the idea of "the spirit of a deceased person." In 1611, when the KJV was originally translated, the word "ghost" primarily referred to "an immaterial being."
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#59
There is no clear reason as to why the KJV translators used Ghost in most places...
We need to keep in mind that Martin Luther's German translation had been around for almost 100 years before the King James translation. The German for "Holy Spirit" is "Heilige Geist" which is translated as "Holy Ghost". There is absolutely nothing wrong with this, and for over 300 years this was not even an issue.

Should Christians stick to the KJB in spite of all the propaganda? Absolutely. The modern bible versions cannot be trusted and should not be trusted. This is based purely upon the facts.