The key to the Pre-Trib Rapture:

[Absolutely]

Matthew 24 compares the state of the world in the great tribulation to the days of Noah.

God didn't like how many wicked people there were in the days of Noah so in His grief (not wrath) He sent a flood. (Genesis 6:6)

Instead of a flood, He will send Jesus and angels to harvest the Earth. Matthew 13:36-43 explains the parable of the Wheat and Tares, Matthew 24 explains how the angels will gather His elect, and Revelation 14:14-16 is along this same point.

Wait it's not over...

Next, according to Revelation 20, there is either a literal or symbolic 1,000 year reign of Christ (still undecided because a day is like 1,000 years to God) during which time Satan is bound, then released, then comes back to deceive the nations yet again with "Gog and Magog." And God destroys them with fire.

Really starting to consider making some visual aids like a timeline and flowcharts. Thanks for the questions.

Revelation 20:7-10
7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

You made that up.

You DELIBERATELY reframed it.

Jesus SAID " before the flood" .

JESUS framed the time of NOAH. Before the flood.

What they were doing BEFORE THE FLOOD.

NOAH in the ark BEFORE THE FLLOD/ TRIB/JUDGEMENT/ WRATH.

Postrib rapture adherents MUST REFRAME the rapture verses.

They also MUST REFRAME the 3 CRYSTAL CLEAR " RETURNS".

REV 19
MAT 25
MAT 24
REV 14
1THES 4

3 DISTINCTLY DIFFERENT gatherings.

Hands down ignored and reframed by postrib rapturists.

Changing revelation????

Really?????

Wow

 

[Absolutely]

Thanks for showing that. You actually just disproved the pre-tribulation rapture by showing me that the 144K are on Earth, precisely on Mount Zion, when Jesus returns. And not already raptured up to heaven.

Now I can add that to my talking points.

Add this into the mix.
Reframe it for us
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

 

[Truth7t7]

It's fine.. I am still hashing out whether the MK is literal or symbolic. Other posters have made some good points that is making me reexamine the MK scriptures to see how it meshes exactly.

I do believe a MK exists in some form because it's right there in the Bible that there is a 1,000 year reign of Christ.

I think Revelation 20 is definitely after the return of Christ.

Revelation 20:1-8 is prior to the second coming, The non literal 1,000 years is taking place currently, and will end at the second coming, in fire and Final judgement Rev 20:9

There will be no literal Millennial anything, a fairy tale of man

One day is a thousand years in the Lords spiritual, Revelation 20:4-6 (Thousand Years) is (Symbolic) And 100% in the Spiritual Realm, "No Literal Time", Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

The fire seen in Rev 20:9 & Luke 17:29-30 below, coming down from heaven takes place at the second coming, when the Lord returns in fire, same event.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Luke 7:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[oyster67]

Thanks for showing that. You actually just disproved the pre-tribulation rapture by showing me that the 144K are on Earth, precisely on Mount Zion, when Jesus returns. And not already raptured up to heaven.

It is my understanding that these are Judaizers who would have missed the Rapture because they failed to apply the blood of the Lamb to the doorpost of their hearts before the Rapture. Yes?

 

[Runningman]

Add this into the mix.
Reframe it for us
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

No need to reframe the Bible under any circumstances. The Bible is right. It's our understanding that is either flawed or correct.

Jesus comes back, His 144K are on mount Zion, then they sing before the throne. They are "redeemed from the earth."

They are the first fruits and they are raptured to what is most likely God's throne after the great tribulation.

Am I missing anything or does that satisfactorily hit all the points. Also, is there anything else you want me to look at?

 

[tribesman]

Dispensationalism was brought to us by Schofield who was promoted by the prominent jew Samuel Untermeyer. Untermeyer wanted to bend Protestantism to be more favorably inclined towards jews. That's how these things work. Dispensationalism is psychological warfare.

As far as I can recall there were some Jesuit(?) clergy, Ribera and Lacunza, involved in some sort of proto version of dispensationalism prior to Darby and Scofield. More tolerant attitude to jews I think had been worked on in protestantism long before Scofield. Dispensationalism was perhaps a way of getting support for zionism among christians.

 

[Truth7t7]

Great.

I would say that the falling away and rebellion is from the world not the church, that final throwing off of all belief and devotion to God.

I Agree, "Falling Away" "Forsake" from a standard once held.

A falling away from a position once held, such as moral standards in the world, not just what would claim to be a religious standard

A Few Mentions:

60 million Abortions annually in the world?

Homosexuality in same sex marriage?

Feminism and destruction of societal order, and the family?

Defund the police, in defiance of Gods established authority?

2 Timothy 3:1-4KJV
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

 

[Live4Him]

I found the key to the pre-tribulation rapture:



You poor misguided people.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Agreed. And again in 1 Thess 5 Paul is making definitive distinctions between the redeemed and the unsaved:
-"you" know the times and seasons ("they" do not) v.1
-"you" know about the Day of the Lord ("they" do not) v.2

-sudden destruction comes upon "them", "they" shall not escape (implied we shall escape) v3
-"you" Are not in darkness, that day shall not overtake "you" (you will not be in it....the sudden
destruction of v.3) v.4
-we are sons of light they are sons of darkness v.5
-we are not asleep......they are v.6
-we are not appointed to wrath they are v.9

The problem enters when one (as many do) defines those ^ words/phrases: "the Day of the Lord," "destruction [this Grk word]," "darkness [/in the night]," and "wrath" to be referring to [basically] the split-second moment of His "RETURN" (i.e. Second Coming), or other "very short" matter of mere days, rather than how Scripture itself defines these... and one VERY IMPORTANT CLUE in this text (which I find most "overlook / bypass / disregard") is Paul's use, here, of JESUS' OWN TERM: "birth PANG" (they both/each [Jesus and Paul] are speaking of the SAME THING / SAME POINT IN TIME / SAME STARTING-GUN, KICK-OFF point!)

(Paul is saying the INITIAL ONE, is the ARRIVAL of the DOTL... an earthly time-period of judgments unfolding over the course of a very specific, yet-future, LIMITED duration leading up to His RETURN to the earth [not leading up to 'our Rapture, but FOLLOWING it!], and involving "signs" and "the man of sin"--again, the "BoBPs" ARE the "SEALS," so the INITIAL "BP [SINGULAR]" Paul speaks of here [its ARRIVAL] is when the "DOTL" WILL indeed then BE PRESENT (to unfold upon the earth, consisting of "judgments," etc ^ ), at the START of the trib years, i.e. SEAL #1... not commencing at the CONCLUSION of those years)

 

[DJZawada]

[QUOTE="Strong’s Definitions
ἀποστασία apostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah; feminine of the same as G646; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake.[/QUOTE]

The Lord has revealed this to you, for all who know the term "apostates" know that this is what we see over all the earth now from both Judaic and Christian culture.

 

[Truth7t7]

As far as I can recall there were some Jesuit(?) clergy, Ribera and Lacunza, involved in some sort of proto version of dispensationalism prior to Darby and Scofield. More tolerant attitude to jews I think had been worked on in protestantism long before Scofield. Dispensationalism was perhaps a way of getting support for zionism among christians.

I agree 100%, Darby's teachings on Israel and covenants is 100% Zionism, and Great Britian is where the Rothschild's performed in the (Balfour Declaration) 1917

The Zionism was intermingled with the protestant religious views in the Aristocracy in Great Britian, Lady Powerscourt and her conference's were a strong impetus to Darby and his writings.

Christian Zionism (Greatest World Influence, 1909 Scofield Reference Bible)

My research finds that Jewish Zionist (Samuel J. Untermyer 1858-1940) was the financier and backer to the Scofield 1909 reference bible, and his Zionism was incorporated, laying a foundation in protestant circles worldwide, for the Zionist 1917 Balfour Declaration, and establishing a State of Israel

Yes the Rothschild's built Israel's Knesset and Supreme Court Buildings, and purchased much land for this State.

Your claim that the 1909 Scofield Bible was used to gain support amongst Christian's is 100% correct, and we can see the efforts were a deceptive success.

 

[Kolistus]

Read 2 Peter 2:4-22

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This is talking about living people who fall back into sin. Also we are not angels. Just doesn't work. No where does the bible say we will sin after the resurrection, that would make everything utterly meaningless.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Perhaps someone can show me where the word "FORSAKE" [/ 'to forsake'] is ever a NOUN [as is our word under discussion, G646 (2Th2:3)], in Scripture, ....according to the Lord (Who Himself is the Logos / Word).



¯\_(ツ)_/¯ [<---pic C&P from @Runningman's post... appropriate here also! LOL ]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

And I mean THAT LITERAL [exact] WORD: "to forsake" / "FORSAKE"... which is what someone said is the definition here.


[note: that's ^ a VERB; and don't forget the "DEFINITE ARTICLE" ('the') that is with it, in this text: so... "THE FORSAKE"... erm, no. Methinks God did not tell you that. lol]

 

[Absolutely]

No need to reframe the Bible under any circumstances. The Bible is right. It's our understanding that is either flawed or correct.

Jesus comes back, His 144K are on mount Zion, then they sing before the throne. They are "redeemed from the earth."

They are the first fruits and they are raptured to what is most likely God's throne after the great tribulation.

Am I missing anything or does that satisfactorily hit all the points. Also, is there anything else you want me to look at?

Lets see;

Firstfruits actually does not exist outside harvest. Harvest means from the earth.
So when?

If you keep reading the next event is Jesus on a cloud HARVESTING. That would be main harvest of Jews. FROM THE EARTH,
DURING THE TRIB..

I KNOW YOU WILL BUCK UP AT IT.

It is beyond simple and it totally destroys your theory.
Totally.

No wonder you guys ignore it or reframe it.

There is much more depth and verses. But it would ne way too much for you guys.

You cant even unpack the obvious of rev 14.
Well you could, but it would be precarious changing that much scripture

Kinda like what you are doing now.

 

[Runningman]

This is talking about living people who fall back into sin. Also we are not angels. Just doesn't work. No where does the bible say we will sin after the resurrection, that would make everything utterly meaningless.

You are making good points. This all has to mesh somehow. So maybe the millennial kingdom is entirely misunderstood. It seems to take place on Earth at first glance, but it could possibly be symbolic or maybe it isn't chronological?

This single point of the MK is highly debatable because it has to fit in somehow and this is where amillenialism, premillennialism, and postmillennialism came from.

What's your take on it?

 

[Absolutely]

I found the key to the pre-tribulation rapture:

View attachment 226691

You poor misguided people.

Yes all those pretrib rapture verses by Jesus are misguided huh?

( the ones you reframe and ignore)

But you guys can not go toe to toe so you reframe, reframe, reframe, ignore.... Repeat.

Postrib rapture originated in a deception.
Carried over to today.

Your original doctrine was formed by men that saw jerusalem (israel) destroyed and scattered.

That prism invented the postrib rapture error.

It was invented through ignorance. I would have thought the same back then!
That dynamic was in their face and NOTHING pretrib would be plausable.
Most of them were also amil
!!!
Another erroneous doctrine.

But hey ,they were living it. Their prism was horrible. It kinda was a perfect storm for error. Now modern men are decieved, but invincibly so, with verses to destroy such error like a billboard to shed tons of light on their error. Bizarre indeed.

Enter the catholic weird doctrines.
Right after those men that were originally misguided.

The catholics change stuff around to the point that none of them make sense.

That is the origination of your doctrine.

 

[Absolutely]

I found the key to the pre-tribulation rapture:

View attachment 226691

You poor misguided people.

Yes all those pretrib rapture verses by Jesus are misguided huh?

( the ones you reframe and ignore)

But you guys can not go toe to toe so you reframe, reframe, reframe, ignore.... Repeat.

Postrib rapture originated in a deception.
Carried over to today.

Your original doctrine was formed by men that saw jerusalem (israel) destroyed and scattered.

That prism invented the postrib rapture error.

It was invented through ignorance. I would have thought the same back then!
That dynamic was in their face and NOTHING pretrib would be plausable.
Most of them were also amil
!!!
Another erroneous doctrine.

But hey ,they were living it. Their prism was horrible. It kinda was a perfect storm for error. Now modern men are decieved, but invincibly so, with verses to destroy such error like a billboard to shed tons of light on their error. Bizarre

Enter the catholic weird doctrines.
Right after those men that were originally misguided.

The catholics change stuff around to the point that none of them make sense.

That is the origination of your doctrine.

 

[Truth7t7]

Logically yes, but to think we aren't saved even after we are saved is just unthinkable. We are in the image of Christ after the resurrection, so I do not believe we can be deceived in that state.

I Agree, God Himself Will Dwell With The Glorified Of The Resurrection.

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes all those pretrib rapture verses by Jesus are misguided huh?

( the ones you reframe and ignore)

But you guys can not go toe to toe so you reframe, reframe, reframe, ignore.... Repeat.

Postrib rapture originated in a deception.
Carried over to today.

Your original doctrine was formed by men that saw jerusalem (israel) destroyed and scattered.

That prism invented the postrib rapture error.

It was invented through ignorance. I would have thought the same back then!
That dynamic was in their face and NOTHING pretrib would be plausable.
Most of them were also amil
!!!
Another erroneous doctrine.

But hey ,they were living it. Their prism was horrible. It kinda was a perfect storm for error. Now modern men are decieved, but invincibly so, with verses to destroy such error like a billboard to shed tons of light on their error. Bizarre

Enter the catholic weird doctrines.
Right after those men that were originally misguided.

The catholics change stuff around to the point that none of them make sense.

That is the origination of your doctrine.

Your Pre-Trib Rapture Verses Are So Convincing You Didn't Post A One

Just More One Liners, Without Scriptural Support, A Standard.