The Heresy of Annihilationism

[Nehemiah6]

Ever wonder why Jesus uses the metaphor "sleep" for "death"?

After all these posts, you should have learned by now that this metaphor of sleep applies ONLY to the dead body. Souls and spirits are very much alive.

Dead bodies -- when first laid to rest (and they simply wrapped them in a shroud) -- gave the appearance of sleep or repose. That is all that this means. The saints are very much alive in Heaven, while the unrighteous dead are in torment in Hades. SOUL SLEEP IS FALSE DOCTRINE FROM THE CULTS.

 

[CS1]

no your argument is with the word of God and the over whelming scriptural proof of "hells" eternal existence . AS Jesus taught you are in error . And Also you were insulting which proves even more your error never seen the below presented that way
"
lurking there beneath the surface, making them look plain old stupid to you. "

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

This is what Strongs says about the word translated into English as perish:

Strong's Concordance
apollumi: to destroy, destroy utterly
Original Word: ἀπόλλυμι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apollumi
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol'-loo-mee)
Short Definition: I destroy, lose, am perishing
Definition: (a) I kill, destroy, (b) I lose, mid: I am perishing (the resultant death being viewed as certain).
HELPS Word-studies
622 apóllymi (from 575 /apó, "away from," which intensifies ollymi, "to destroy") – properly, fully destroy, cutting off entirely (note the force of the prefix, 575 /apó).

622 /apóllymi ("violently/completely perish") implies permanent (absolute) destruction, i.e. to cancel out (remove); "to die, with the implication of ruin and destruction" (L & N, 1, 23.106); cause to be lost (utterly perish) by experiencing a miserable end.

[This is also the meaning of 622 /apóllymi dating back to Homer (900 bc.]

And in a greek lexicon on studylight.org, this is what a lookup of the word "perish" gives:

Bible Lexicons
Old / New Testament Greek Lexical Dictionary
Search for 'perish'

8 entries​

#Original WordTranslation
TransliterationPhonetic Spelling

599

ἀποθνήσκω​

dies, be slain, be dead, dying, put, die, mortal, perished, dead, death, perish, lie a dying, died, be at the point of death
apothnḗskōap-oth-nace'-ko

622

ἀπόλλυμι​

dying, perished, bring, perishable, much, destroyed, put to death, destroy, lost, perish, killed, be lost, ruined, end, perishing, misc, passed away, loses, lose, perishes
apóllymiap-ol'-loo-mee

684

ἀπώλεια​

destruction, damnable, pernicious, destructive, perish, to die, wasted, waste, perdition
apṓleiaap-o'-li-a

853

ἀφανίζω​

neglect, perish, disfigure, vanish away, corrupt, destroy, vanishes away, destroys
aphanízōaf-an-id'-zo

1311

διαφθείρω​

decaying, destroyed, depraved, perish, corrupt, destroy, destroys
diaphtheírōdee-af-thi'-ro

2704

καταφθείρω​

utterly perish, depraved, corrupt
kataphtheírōkat-af-thi'-ro

4881

συναπόλλυμι​

perish along, perish with
synapóllymisoon-ap-ol'-loo-mee

5356

φθορά​

corruption, destruction, perishable, to perish, perish, killed, destroy
phthoráfthor-ah'

8 entries​

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Thursday, June 21st, 2018
the Week of Proper 6 / Ordinary 11​

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[Stunnedbygrace]

Ever wonder why Jesus uses the metaphor "sleep" for "death"? When you are asleep you are not aware of anything going on - sleep = a condition of body and mind such as that which typically recurs for several hours every night, in which the nervous system is relatively inactive, the eyes closed, the postural muscles relaxed, and consciousness practically suspended. When we die our next conscious thought will be when Christ "awakes" us from the dead. Those that die will sleep until the return of Christ and he calls them out of the grave, those that are alive will be caught up.

Did I already ask you how you make this jibe with the consciously aware men under the altar in heaven in the book of Revelation?
Or with the parable of the rich man and Lazarus? It does show conscious awareness.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

no your argument is with the word of God and the over whelming scriptural proof of "hells" eternal existence . AS Jesus taught you are in error . And Also you were insulting which proves even more your error never seen the below presented that way
"
lurking there beneath the surface, making them look plain old stupid to you. "

I was not trying to insult you. I was trying to say that you have to go to the origination of a mans objection and that even if you don't, and you and he don't discuss the core objection, it will be lurking beneath everything the man says, and that if you can't see what his main objection really is, he will appear quite obtuse and stupid to you.

 

[CS1]

And in a greek lexicon on studylight.org, this is what a lookup of the word "perish" gives:

Bible Lexicons
Old / New Testament Greek Lexical Dictionary
Search for 'perish'

8 entries​

#Original WordTranslation
TransliterationPhonetic Spelling

599

ἀποθνήσκω​

dies, be slain, be dead, dying, put, die, mortal, perished, dead, death, perish, lie a dying, died, be at the point of death
apothnḗskōap-oth-nace'-ko

622

ἀπόλλυμι​

dying, perished, bring, perishable, much, destroyed, put to death, destroy, lost, perish, killed, be lost, ruined, end, perishing, misc, passed away, loses, lose, perishes
apóllymiap-ol'-loo-mee

684

ἀπώλεια​

destruction, damnable, pernicious, destructive, perish, to die, wasted, waste, perdition
apṓleiaap-o'-li-a

853

ἀφανίζω​

neglect, perish, disfigure, vanish away, corrupt, destroy, vanishes away, destroys
aphanízōaf-an-id'-zo

1311

διαφθείρω​

decaying, destroyed, depraved, perish, corrupt, destroy, destroys
diaphtheírōdee-af-thi'-ro

2704

καταφθείρω​

utterly perish, depraved, corrupt
kataphtheírōkat-af-thi'-ro

4881

συναπόλλυμι​

perish along, perish with
synapóllymisoon-ap-ol'-loo-mee

5356

φθορά​

corruption, destruction, perishable, to perish, perish, killed, destroy
phthoráfthor-ah'

8 entries​

Lectionary Calendar

Thursday, June 21st, 2018
the Week of Proper 6 / Ordinary 11​

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We really need to learn how to use the tools we have in Biblical understanding
1. a bible Dictionary does not give full context to a verse, paragraph, chapter and Book. it is a dictionary and in the Biblical interpretation you have to take into account the systematic range of words and there meaning Not just one word but all given with other books chapter's and verses and sentences . this is a great example of improper Biblical interpretation

Eisegesis (/ˌaɪsəˈdʒiːsəs/ is the process of interpreting a text or portion of text in such a way that the process introduces one's own presuppositions, agendas, or biases into and onto the text.
reading into the word of God what you want it to say. this is error. WE can one word it all day the context would not change nor the Authority of the Lord Jesus Christ . to agree with annihilationism would to dis=believe what Jesus said about hell. good try though

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I was printing the strongs and the greek lexicon to show what the meaning of the word translated as "perish" in english means.

 

[CS1]

I was not trying to insult you. I was trying to say that you have to go to the origination of a mans objection and that even if you don't, and you and he don't discuss the core objection, it will be lurking beneath everything the man says, and that if you can't see what his main objection really is, he will appear quite obtuse and stupid to you.

that would be the case but in this case the man is Jesus who is God and the authority in context to Hell eternal existence . Which you disagree with. that is error

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Job 26:6 uses the noun form of ἀπώλεια (destruction) that suggests eternal destruction is being shamed before GOD's eternal gaze because there is no covering for the nakedness of one's sinful wretchedness.

Hell is naked before him, and destruction has no covering. Job 26:6​

​

Revelation warns us to make sure that we have our covering in order.

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. Revelation 16:15​

 

[CS1]

I was printing the strongs and the greek lexicon to show what the meaning of the word translated into perish in english means.

again the translation of a " word" does not give full authorial intent to what has been written without all other words .

 

[peacefulbeliever]

After all these posts, you should have learned by now that this metaphor of sleep applies ONLY to the dead body. Souls and spirits are very much alive.

Dead bodies -- when first laid to rest (and they simply wrapped them in a shroud) -- gave the appearance of sleep or repose. That is all that this means. The saints are very much alive in Heaven, while the unrighteous dead are in torment in Hades. SOUL SLEEP IS FALSE DOCTRINE FROM THE CULTS.

Souls and spirits are very much alive . . . God breathed into Adam and he became a living soul . . . it's seems that life is breath - as long as one breathes he is a body and soul . . . each piece cannot of its own self live apart. The spirit we have is from God upon our new birth . . the spirit goes back to God who gave it . . . what did God give us? The gift of holy spirit. Again these "parts" do not live individually apart from the body but make up the totality of a person. Sleep is a metaphor for death - the total person is laid in the grave - the body is dead because it no longer has soul, e.g. breath life. I don't know what "soul sleep" is but I do know that we are told we will sleep until we are called out of the grave, resurrected.

Death is an enemy not a friend to bring us to Christ (heaven) - Death apparently has a "sting" but there is not sting in death because we as Christians with the blessed hope of our Savior's appearing and the guarantee of everlasting life need not sorrow as those without this hope.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

again the translation of a " word" does not give full authorial intent to what has been written without all other words .

I agree it is possible for a translation to be wrong. I think it's far better to instead look up what the original greek word means. But even this is not sufficient really, because I have still only given the root in greek. It would be helpful to have angela here to give us the nuances in greek for an even better understanding but alas, she is not here. And neither is lightbearer, so...we have to go with the root, which I agree is not great for a word study.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Did I already ask you how you make this jibe with the consciously aware men under the altar in heaven in the book of Revelation?
Or with the parable of the rich man and Lazarus? It does show conscious awareness.

How do I make this "jibe" with the men under the altar in heaven . . . I saw the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held . . . How did John SEE them? Rev. 1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, to shew unto his servant things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record of the word of God and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw . . . . . I believe this to be a vision given to John.

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus - a parable is a simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson . . . which I have already explained many times.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Perhaps in the wisdom of GOD he deemed eternal punishment to be a necessity. I think it would be impossible to create a god-like being with free will (which we are) without the possibility of sinning. Both perfect angels and perfect man sinned.

Perhaps an eternal reminder of the consequences of rebellion against GOD is needed as a deterrent. It is written that a sea mixed with fire (Revelation 15:2) is before the throne. Seas are used in scripture to symbolize the peoples apart from the people of GOD, and that sea mixed with fire is IMO the lake of fire. So perhaps there will be an eternal witness before the throne of GOD of the consequences of sin as a deterrent to all. Apparently the lake of fire will be in open view for all to see.

And it will be month by month, and Sabbath by Sabbath, all flesh shall come to do obeisance before me in Jerusalem, said the LORD. And they shall go forth, and shall see the carcasses of men, the ones violating against me. For their worm shall not come to an end, and their fire shall not be extinguished. And they will be for a sight to all flesh. Isaiah 66:23-24​

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

How do I make this "jibe" with the men under the altar in heaven . . . I saw the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held . . . How did John SEE them? Rev. 1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, to shew unto his servant things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record of the word of God and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw . . . . . I believe this to be a vision given to John.

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus - a parable is a simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson . . . which I have already explained many times.

Yes, and John heard them crying to God: how long?
So they were conscious. Sleeping men don't speak and ask questions.
So I will concede (not agree, but concede) that the part of the story of the rich man and Lazarus that speaks of them being conscious could be just a trashable part of the story without any real meaning and not a necessary part of the bible, but can you also do that with the souls under the altar? Because then you will be doing it with a second verse. To keep that up will not end well, will it?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

And it will be month by month, and Sabbath by Sabbath, all flesh shall come to do obeisance before me in Jerusalem, said the LORD. And they shall go forth, and shall see the carcasses of men, the ones violating against me. For their worm shall not come to an end, and their fire shall not be extinguished. And they will be for a sight to all flesh. Isaiah 66:23-24

That is the millennium, the last 1,000 years. Humans being thrown in the lake of fire comes after that. So can we assume that this will be an accurate description of a human AFTER being thrown in the lake of fire?

 

[prove-all]

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

So you do not believe the wages of sin is death, but believe a
unrepentant mortal human sinner is given [the gift of eternal life] instead ?

OK that is your choice to believe this.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I agree it is possible for a translation to be wrong. I think it's far better to instead look up what the original greek word means. But even this is not sufficient really, because I have still only given the root in greek. It would be helpful to have angela here to give us the nuances in greek for an even better understanding but alas, she is not here. And neither is lightbearer, so...we have to go with the root, which I agree is not great for a word study.

Here are a few meanings of "destroy" in addition to the one you provided:

23.114 ἀπόλλυμι τὴν ψυχήν (an idiom, literally ‘to suffer the destruction of one’s life’ or ‘to have one’s life destroyed’)—‘to experience the loss of life, to die.’ ὁ ἀπολέσας τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ ἕνεκεν ἐμοῦ εὑρήσει αὐτήν ‘he who dies for my sake will gain his life’ Mt 10:39. In Mt 10:39 some scholars see in the use of ψυχή a reference not to physical life but to a particular quality of life. This is difficult to justify except in terms of the total context, and it may be that in Mt 10:39 there is a degree of intentional ambiguity with respect to the meaning of ψυχή.

27.29 ἀπόλλυμι: to become unaware of the location of something—‘to lose, to no longer know where something is.’ τίς ἄνθρωπος ἐξ ὑμῶν ἔχων ἑκατὸν πρόβατα καὶ ἀπολέσας ἐξ αὐτῶν ἕν ‘suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them’ Lk 15:4. It is also possible to interpret ἀπόλλυμι in Lk 15:4 as meaning a loss of possession (see 57.68).

57.67 ἀπόλλυμι: to fail to obtain a valued object—‘to not obtain, to fail to get.’ οὐ μὴ ἀπολέσῃ τὸν μισθὸν αὐτοῦ ‘he certainly won’t fail to get his reward’ Mt 10:42.

57.68 ἀπόλλυμι: to lose something which one already possesses—‘to lose.’ τίς γυνὴ δραχμὰς ἔχουσα δέκα, ἐὰν ἀπολέσῃ δραχμὴν μίαν ‘suppose a woman who has ten silver coins loses one of them’ Lk 15:8. ἀπόλλυμι in the sense of losing what one already possesses may be analyzed basically as ‘not to have that which one has previously had.’ There is, however, no suggestion in ἀπόλλυμιc as to the particular type of circumstances involved in the loss, whether, for example, from neglect, by accident, or as the result of some external force. It is also possible to interpret ἀπόλλυμι in Lk 15:8 as ‘to not know where something is’ (see 27.29).

Johannes P. Louw and Eugene Albert Nida, vol. 1, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Based on Semantic Domains, electronic ed. of the 2nd edition. (New York: United Bible Societies, 1996), 565.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

That is the millennium, the last 1,000 years. Humans being thrown in the lake of fire comes after that. So can we assume that this will be an accurate description of a human AFTER being thrown in the lake of fire?

There will actually only be 2 beings, both human, in the lake of fire for the first 1000 years - the beast and the false prophet.

 

[prove-all]

Actually the lake of fire will exist at the beginning of the millennium. That is where the beast and false prophet will be cast (Revelation 19:20).

rev 20 says Satan is bound for 1000 years in [the bottomless pit],
then he is loosed after that, then thrown in [the lake of fire] at the end of mill.

And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and
bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up,
and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand
years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.


10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where
the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever