THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

[Timeline]

1 Corinthians 13:2
If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

 

[Timeline]

1 John 4:20
If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.

I find myself guilty in this. It is something that we must all strive for.

 

[Hizikyah]

1 John 4:20
If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.

I find myself guilty in this. It is something that we must all strive for.

I have been guilty of this. The more I see what the world has done to people the more I begin to feel bad for them as opposed to pulling Peter's "roast em" thing. Still have work to do. Messiah in me Yah willing!

Leviticus 19:17, "You shall not hate your neighbor in your heart. Rebuke your brother (or your sister) frankly, so you will not share in his (or her) guilt."

 

[oldthennew]

ECC.12:13-14.

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:
Fear God, and keep His Commandments:
for this is the whole duty of man.

For God shall bring every work into judgment,
with every secret thing,
whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

 

[Mitspa]

Will do Yah willing!!!!!!

Proverbs 6:23, "For the commandments are a lamp, the Law is light, and reproofs of instruction are the way to life."

Psalm 119:142-144, "Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, because Your Law is the truth! Trouble and anguish have overtaken us, but Your Laws are our bdelights. The righteousness of Your testimonies is everlasting, giving us understanding, so we may live,"

Psalm 19:7-10, "The Laws of Yahweh are perfect, converting the whole person. The testimony of Yahweh is sure, making the simple ones wise. The statutes of Yahweh are right, rejoicing the heart; mind. The commandments of Yahweh are pure, bringing understanding to the eyes. The reverence of Yahweh is clean, enduring forever. The judgments of Yahweh are true and altogether righteous. They are more to be desired than gold, yes, than even much fine gold. They are sweeter than honey and the honeycomb."

Psalm 1:2, "But his delight is in the Law of Yahweh, and in His Law he meditates day and night."

Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Yahchanan (John) 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

Well good ...let me know how it goes.... what your plans on the temple laws? think you might offer some animals as a sacrifice ?

 

[Mitspa]

ECC.12:13-14.

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:
Fear God, and keep His Commandments:
for this is the whole duty of man.

For God shall bring every work into judgment,
with every secret thing,
whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

This is My beloved Son...hear Him

 

[Mitspa]

1Ti 1:5 ¶ Now the end of the commandments is love out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith without hypocrisy:
6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

 

[Hizikyah]

Well good ...let me know how it goes.... what your plans on the temple laws? think you might offer some animals as a sacrifice ?

No sir!

Thanks be to Yahweh, Yahshua the Messiah is now High Priest after the order of Melchizedek! It is his role to carry out the priestly duties! If those Laws were done away how could He be High priest? Ahh the transfer of the Law fom the Arronic priesthodd to the order of the Malak zadiq! THE KING OF RIGHTEOUSNESS!

Hebrew 6:20, "Where the Forerunner has entered for us: Yahshua, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

 

[Mitspa]

No sir!

Thanks be to Yahweh, Yahshua the Messiah is now High Priest after the order of Melchizedek! It is his role to carry out the priestly duties! If those Laws were done away how could He be High priest? Ahh the transfer of the Law fom the Arronic priesthodd to the order of the Malak zadiq! THE KING OF RIGHTEOUSNESS!

So has part of the law passed away?, I don't understand what you think every jot and tittle means? So some parts of the law are passed and other parts have not? Odd that Jesus would miss it like that...don't your think?

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

 

[Hizikyah]

No sir!

Thanks be to Yahweh, Yahshua the Messiah is now High Priest after the order of Melchizedek! It is his role to carry out the priestly duties! If those Laws were done away how could He be High priest? Ahh the transfer of the Law fom the Arronic priesthodd to the order of the Malak zadiq! THE KING OF RIGHTEOUSNESS!

Hebrew 6:20, "Where the Forerunner has entered for us: Yahshua, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

So has part of the law passed away?, I don't understand what you think every jot and tittle means? So some parts of the law are passed and other parts have not? Odd that Jesus would miss it like that...don't your think?

No Laws have been done away.

Have you ever read Hebrews?

The human priesthood is no more, now thre is priest after the order of melchizedek, the unprofitable human duties that never really cleansed sin and needed to be RE-sacrificed every year has been replaced by the eternal priesthood, with Yahshua being the only current member known to man.

 

[john832]

Well good ...let me know how it goes.... what your plans on the temple laws? think you might offer some animals as a sacrifice ?

What are you saying here? Christ didn't know what He was talking about? You are calling Him a liar not Hizikyah.

 

[john832]

This is My beloved Son...hear Him

And when He says these things...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Luk 18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
Luk 18:20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

How's your hearing?

Mat 11:15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

 

[Hizikyah]

Mt 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Has this prophecy been fulfilled already?

Mattithyah 24:29-31, "Immediately, but after the tribulation of those days will the sun be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven; and then will all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His malakim with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of earth to the other."

 

[john832]

1Ti 1:5 ¶ Now the end of the commandments is love out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith without hypocrisy:
6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

Boy howdy, we've done this one a few times before but if you insist on misusing the scripture, here we go again...

The word for end here is...

G5056

τέλος
telos
tel'-os
From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically an impost or levy (as paid): - + continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.
Total KJV occurrences: 42

The end here is used in the sense of the point or goal set out for, the point aimed at, the result. Now if you want to use the word telos here meaning obliteration...

1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

the obliteration of your faith? Or how about...

Jas 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

The obliteration of Christ?

and then you quote this?

1Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

All the while twisting the meaning of the word end?

Good luck, you're gonna need it.

 

[Timeline]

So has part of the law passed away?, I don't understand what you think every jot and tittle means? So some parts of the law are passed and other parts have not? Odd that Jesus would miss it like that...don't your think?

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

I understand where you are coming from, and for the most part I agree, but I believe, through the Spirit, we are guided to do what is right, which was in the Ten Commandments. So, we observe the ten commandments as the Spirit guides us. God still expects us not to have other gods, idols, take his name in vain, (dis)honor our fathers and mothers, murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness, or covet our neighbor's things. These things are still to be avoided (except honoring fathers and mothers). I personally do not believe that we are supposed to observe the Sabbath anymore, though I don't have a problem with those who do. And though I do not do it, I believe that we should gather together daily as was the example of the first century church. The group that I assemble with meets on Sunday, which I also don't have a problem with, but I haven't found enough scripture to insist that Christians must meet on Sunday. Again, Daily would be best, imo.


The Law extended beyond the Ten Commandments and I don't think most Christians would stone anyone for adultery, homosexuality, beastiality, etc. even though it was commanded in the Law! Also, all of the law involving an earthly priesthood was done away. I don't think that very many go to a priest when they get a spot on their skin.

 

[oldthennew]

This is My beloved Son...hear Him

==================================================

INDEED!

REV.1:1.
The Revelation of Jesus Christ...

REV.14:12.
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come:
and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

REV.14:12.
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Jesus Christ, the Same, yesterday, today, and forever = from GEN. to ECC. to REV.

 

[Hizikyah]

1Ti 1:5 ¶ Now the end of the commandments is love out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith without hypocrisy:
6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

Boy howdy, we've done this one a few times before but if you insist on misusing the scripture, here we go again...

The word for end here is...

G5056

τέλος
telos
tel'-os
From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically an impost or levy (as paid): - + continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.
Total KJV occurrences: 42

The end here is used in the sense of the point or goal set out for, the point aimed at, the result. Now if you want to use the word telos here meaning obliteration...

1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

the obliteration of your faith? Or how about...

Jas 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

The obliteration of Christ?

and then you quote this?

1Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

All the while twisting the meaning of the word end?

Good luck, you're gonna need it.

I have posted him the greek behind Rom 10:4 more than 2 times, he never even replied to the breakdown...

 

[Keeper]

Saul was an outsider to these things we talk about today... up until he met up with God on his way to Damascus. Suddenly he becomes a preacher, while still an "infant" himself... and as he journeys along his own Spiritual Odyssey, he keeps on preaching his findings; words of wisdom, inspired by the Spirit of God for the nourishment of starving souls like me.

So if this life is rather an Odyssey, if it's a journey of transformation from one dimension to the next... all the way until we are 100% like our Lord and Master; then why should it be a problem if at some point some of us consider the Law to be the only way out of Sodom & Gomorrah (i.e. salvation), while others believe that Faith alone is the answer?

One thing I know for sure: A day is coming, very soon, when God's righteousness and glory shall fill the earth... like the waters cover the sea.

 

[Hizikyah]

Saul was an outsider to these things we talk about today... up until he met up with God on his way to Damascus. Suddenly he becomes a preacher, while still an "infant" himself... and as he journeys along his own Spiritual Odyssey, he keeps on preaching his findings; words of wisdom, inspired by the Spirit of God for the nourishment of starving souls like me.

So if this life is rather an Odyssey, if it's a journey of transformation from one dimension to the next... all the way until we are 100% like our Lord and Master; then why should it be a problem if at some point some of us consider the Law to be the only way out of Sodom & Gomorrah (i.e. salvation), while others believe that Faith alone is the answer?

One thing I know for sure: A day is coming, very soon, when God's righteousness and glory shall fill the earth... like the waters cover the sea.

I believe Scripture is clear we need both:

Yaaqob 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

Heb 4:2, "For this message was preached to us, as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not benefit them, because they did not share in the faith of those who obeyed. "

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, (in conformity) with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

 

[Mitspa]

Jesus Christ was the Word made flesh. All the law and the phophets spoke if Him and He alone kept the what the law demanded. now all the elements of sacrifice and all that relates to the temple was fulfilled at His Cross and all moral elements that the law demanded are spoken through Him when He said "this is my commandment" Love as I have loved you. this is the law of Christ and it leaves nothing undone. So those who look to the written code of moses do not and cannot keep the law of Christ.. they are in their hearts in unbelief and they do not love as Christ commands... for the judge others by a standard they do not keep. They break the Royal law of love... for love would never commit such a thing. Judgment will be without mercy on those who have shown no mercy and mercy will glory over judgment.