The Gospels and the Mystery

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Musicmaster

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2021
1,178
213
63
The false idea that followers of Christ within the Gospel of Grace believe that Israel and the Church today are exclusive from one another must misrepresent our beliefs in order to try and make their case in the minds of the ignorant masses who do not make any effort to "prove all things" as Paul instructed that we ALL do. Israel today has only the Gospel of Grace, as is true of Gentiles as well. Nobody is saved through works nor works of the Law. Faith alone also does not at all stand upon the foundation that works are unimportant. What we believe is that works are NOT a basis for salvation itself. Christ accomplished all that is necessary toward the Gospel of Grace. Israel was under the coupling of works coupled with the Blood of Christ, but we are not today under that because it was not spoken nor written TO us today. That is the basis for understanding dispensations.

There was a time that Gentiles had to join with Judaism and the Law in order to be saved, but not today.


MM
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,159
3,698
113
The false idea that followers of Christ within the Gospel of Grace believe that Israel and the Church today are exclusive from one another must misrepresent our beliefs in order to try and make their case in the minds of the ignorant masses who do not make any effort to "prove all things" as Paul instructed that we ALL do. Israel today has only the Gospel of Grace, as is true of Gentiles as well. Nobody is saved through works nor works of the Law. Faith alone also does not at all stand upon the foundation that works are unimportant. What we believe is that works are NOT a basis for salvation itself. Christ accomplished all that is necessary toward the Gospel of Grace. Israel was under the coupling of works coupled with the Blood of Christ, but we are not today under that because it was not spoken nor written TO us today. That is the basis for understanding dispensations.

There was a time that Gentiles had to join with Judaism and the Law in order to be saved, but not today.


MM
A couple of things people miss.
1. The believe is justified by the faith OF Jesus Christ.
2. Failure to rightly divide the book of James and Paul’s 13 epistles.
 

Musicmaster

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2021
1,178
213
63
A couple of things people miss.
1. The believe is justified by the faith OF Jesus Christ.
2. Failure to rightly divide the book of James and Paul’s 13 epistles.
Absolutely. There is the faith OF Christ, and there is our faith IN Christ Jesus:

Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 24:24 And after certain days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, which was a Jewess, he sent for Paul, and heard him concerning the faith in Christ.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Philippians 1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

Does the Gospel itself have faith? No, but the Gospel is the power unto salvation;

Colossians 1:4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love [which ye have] to all the saints,

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

James indeed was speaking to Israel, as he clearly indicated in the very first verse of his epistle. The limited knowledge crowd throws what little they know into their theological blenders set on high speed and the lack in distinctions throughout scripture leads them to claim that it's all one gospel throughout. That's the battle cry of the ignorant masses who don't read the scriptures while pasting the cotton on the bunny tails in their milk-toast and wet-noodle Sunday school classes and study groups.

So, the faith of Christ accomplished for man what man could not, and His faith and Spirit within us stirred and empowers our faith.

Amen

MM
 

Musicmaster

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2021
1,178
213
63
There is this strange idea that the Lord does not incorporate differences, or changes if you will, throughout His timeline for this earth and mankind. In Genesis 2 we read:

Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

...except one, of course.

In Genesis 9 we read:

Genesis 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

The Lord had man start out as vegetarian, and then later made allowance for man to eat anything and everything that lives as meat, along with herbs. Then in Leviticus, the Lord disallowed certain of the animal kingdom that the Jews were not allowed to eat.

So, the Lord has every right to set and change boundaries and limits, even in diet and clothing, as He has demonstrated throughout history. There are many other examples of things the Lord set forth for mankind in general that changed for reasons that we will no into here, but it's interesting that so many will deny the Lord's sovereignty over the salvation of mankind.

In times past, water baptism was necessary for remission of sins, which, one would normally surmise, is indeed a matter of salvation, for without remission of sins, how can one be saved? Peter said nothing about the Blood of Christ, and neither did Christ nor His disciples say anything about the cross to come in all their ministry in the four Gospels when they preached.

When Paul was raised up and shown a mystery shown that was shown, nor even hinted at, by the Lord to no other man until him, water baptism and entrance into Judaism was no longer the means through which Gentiles must enter in order to be saved. Salvation had to start with the Jews, and then to the Gentiles after the fulfillment of the prophecies and Laws that served as types and shadows of Christ, His crucifixion, burial and resurrection on the third day.

Where do these prideful disallowances come from within mankind if not from the desperate wickedness of the heart to say that the Lord could not have set for changes in His plan for salvation for mankind?

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Ephesians 4:17-19
17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

The claim of a singular gospel throughout is nothing but willful blindness to the differences of the elements within each gospel. The texts of scripture scream to the reader that we differentiate them in order to see the wondrous way the Lord works. Mankind is shifty and unstable, and thus requires variations in dealings with him...the worldwide flood being a very good case in point.

MM
 
Nov 1, 2024
1,192
383
83
When Paul was raised up and shown a mystery shown that was shown, nor even hinted at, by the Lord to no other man until him, water baptism ... was no longer the means through which Gentiles must enter in order to be saved.

... The texts of scripture scream to the reader ...
The texts of scripture scream to the reader that Paul baptized with water when he proclaimed the gospel

And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us. Acts 16:14-15
Then [the jailer] called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his house, straightway. Acts 16:29-33​
And [Paul] departed thence, and entered into a certain man's house, named Justus, one that worshipped God, whose house joined hard to the synagogue. And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized. Acts 18:7-8
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Acts 19:4-5