The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

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Dec 15, 2021
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No. You are not yet glorified when you die. Although your spirit rests in Christ's presence.
Are we reading from the same book? YOU SAY NO BODY

BUT GOD SAYS

1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.


SO WHO is not telling the truth?
 
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"egeiro" vs "exegeiro"
Great catch once again TDW.......(y)
You are always hauling in the trophies.
To bad it doesn't have anything to do with IT IS WRITTEN and everything to do with the wisdom of man aka conjecture
 
Dec 15, 2021
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"egeiro" vs "exegeiro"
Great catch once again TDW.......(y)
You are always hauling in the trophies.

And one again, just slide past the posts no one has answers for and continue along the crooked path.
 
Dec 15, 2021
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Exactly which 'innumerable' part of the WHOLE WORLD WILL WORSHIP AFTER him?

Exactly which 'innumerable' part of the WHOLE WORLD WILL WORSHIP AFTER him?


How is it WE CAN'T GET THIS INNUMERABLE PART TO COME TO FAITH NOW, BUT SATAN WILL BE ABLE TO? ISN'T that the exact opposite of what Satan is trying to accomplish?

SO VERY VERY VERY VERY CONFUSING.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Gt is war between holy people and ac and you think God wrath?
Rev 13
7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe,

1. How the beast make a war again holy people if they all rapture
2. B war to holy people and conquer/ jailed or kill them, and you say it is God wrath?
It is Satan wrath

Rev 13
10 “If anyone is to go into captivity,into captivity they will go.
If anyone is to be killed[c] with the sword,
with the sword they will be killed.”[d]

You say this gt in verse 10 wrath of God or wrath of satan
I understand what you guys do.
You compartmentalize wrath and trib.
You skip any overlap.
It is a postrib concept of doctrine, (not bible.)
God judges his people.
GODS people are judged in this life, not in the next.

What killed those christians in the roman coliseum ?
Lions?
Or was it the roman leaders?

In postrib rapture theology, even though God sends the 4 horsemen, you guys NEED THAT skipped.
Your doctrine also RESISTS any notion of the word "judgement", even though the ENTIRE period is judgement.
No, you guys ONLY see a neat brick wall erected BETWEEN the two.

In the ot GOD USED nations, sickness, famine, barrenness, and, ....drum roll please....DEATH to judge HIS PEOPLE.

Now, in you guys doctrine, the judgement involving NATIONS warring against and enslaving HIS OWN PEOPLE as God being absent and the devil doing things COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT of God.
The postrib doctrine has God on vacation for 3.5 yrs and believers so powerful they overcome and ENDURE TO THE END.
Which the bible in no way teaches.
But even if i take the time to SHOW YOU sever postrib rapture COMPLETE IMPOSSIBILITIES,
You completely ignore THE POSTRIB RAPTURE IMPOSSIBILITIES.
SMH

But the irony is, the wrath/ trib thing is TOTALLY true.

But the entire thing is judgement from heaven.

It is weird beyond belief that you guys think the first part is not judgement and contains zero wrath.

Just unbelievable.

But so are all you guys omissions.

The scariest omission of you guys is the complete oblivion of the bride/groom dynamic.

That study lays to rest forever any notion of a postrib rapture doctrine.
The doctrine of OMISSION
 
Jul 23, 2018
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No. You are not yet glorified when you die. Although your spirit rests in Christ's presence.

Final complete glorification only occurs at the resurrection of the body.....which itself occurs at the rapture event....EXCLUSIVELY. A once and forever event for the Church. The initial act of salvation itself always brings the believer all the way to glorification.

In other words it's impossible to be first of all saved and then NOT glorified.

2Cor 5, Rom 8, 1Cor 15, both books of Thessalonians etc. etc. The rapture of the Church is entirely consistent throughout the New Testament.
i would say so....yes
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Does experiencing tribulation now somehow get you a note to get out of it later?

You are saying you do NOW but YOU DON'T ENDURE TO THE END?
They that supposedly go through the trib are the ones " enduring to the end"?

If so, nobody dying now is saved huh?
And we can OMIT what that phrase is ACTUALLY saying?

Got it!
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Do you see why this is all so confusing? Dead but not. Risen but not. Gathering but not. Returning but not. Tribulation saints but not. Apostasy but not.
How in the world did you arrive at that????

That is bizarre
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Nehemiah say

2. Secondly both the wrath of Satan and the wrath of God work at one and the same time -- Satan against the Tribulation saints and God against the evildoers and the wicked.

End quite

Jackson
How do Satan wrath again holy people happen if all saint already rapture
 
Jul 23, 2018
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I say this
Absolutely said:
It also says all take the mark or get beheaded



Your answer:
What's the problem?
Your position is ( i assume) , postrib rapture.

Uh, you either take the mark or get martyred.

No believers left.

No problem huh? Even though your doctrine just got shot down.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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I understand what you guys do.
You compartmentalize wrath and trib.
You skip any overlap.
It is a postrib concept of doctrine, (not bible.)
God judges his people.
GODS people are judged in this life, not in the next.

What killed those christians in the roman coliseum ?
Lions?
Or was it the roman leaders?

In postrib rapture theology, even though God sends the 4 horsemen, you guys NEED THAT skipped.
Your doctrine also RESISTS any notion of the word "judgement", even though the ENTIRE period is judgement.
No, you guys ONLY see a neat brick wall erected BETWEEN the two.

In the ot GOD USED nations, sickness, famine, barrenness, and, ....drum roll please....DEATH to judge HIS PEOPLE.

Now, in you guys doctrine, the judgement involving NATIONS warring against and enslaving HIS OWN PEOPLE as God being absent and the devil doing things COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT of God.
The postrib doctrine has God on vacation for 3.5 yrs and believers so powerful they overcome and ENDURE TO THE END.
Which the bible in no way teaches.
But even if i take the time to SHOW YOU sever postrib rapture COMPLETE IMPOSSIBILITIES,
You completely ignore THE POSTRIB RAPTURE IMPOSSIBILITIES.
SMH

But the irony is, the wrath/ trib thing is TOTALLY true.

But the entire thing is judgement from heaven.

It is weird beyond belief that you guys think the first part is not judgement and contains zero wrath.

Just unbelievable.

But so are all you guys omissions.

The scariest omission of you guys is the complete oblivion of the bride/groom dynamic.

That study lays to rest forever any notion of a postrib rapture doctrine.
The doctrine of OMISSION
So what your believe will happen in 7 years tribulation?
1.Wrath of God to unbeliever
2. Or judgement for believer on earth
3. Both
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,768
8,276
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Are we reading from the same book? YOU SAY NO BODY

BUT GOD SAYS

1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.


SO WHO is not telling the truth?
I am terribly sorry to know of your grievous lack of reading comprehension skills. It must be a terrible burden. That being said, please read and re-read my earlier post on the matter. However many times it takes. Hopefully it will sink in eventually.....

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...ns-at-the-rapture.203234/page-86#post-4761959
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Can any postribber explain the "all take the mark" anomaly?

I think it says " every man , woman, and child"
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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Can any postribber explain the "all take the mark" anomaly?

I think it says " every man , woman, and child"
Are you talking about these erase?
Rev 13
7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.

8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.[b]
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,768
8,276
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So what your believe will happen in 7 years tribulation?
1.Wrath of God to unbeliever
2. Or judgement for believer on earth
3. Both
Definitely #1.
Definitely NOT # 2.......per 1Thes 1:10, 1Thes 5:9. I believe these two verses speak directly and specifically to the rapture and the ESCAPE FROM wrath of the tribulation. Because as Thessalonians makes clear we are removed from the time and place of God's wrath.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,768
8,276
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I say this
Absolutely said:
It also says all take the mark or get beheaded



Your answer:


Your position is ( i assume) , postrib rapture.

Uh, you either take the mark or get martyred.

No believers left.

No problem huh? Even though your doctrine just got shot down.
Behind that error is the heresy that the wrath of God comes upon believers. The Bible states otherwise many many times.....
 
Dec 15, 2021
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I am terribly sorry to know of your grievous lack of reading comprehension skills. It must be a terrible burden. That being said, please read and re-read my earlier post on the matter. However many times it takes. Hopefully it will sink in eventually.....

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...ns-at-the-rapture.203234/page-86#post-4761959
As I am terribly sorry about how scared you are to face the devil. FAITH in the powers and works of God will make that fear go away and you too will be one of the ones to endure to the end without being deceived. BUT as everyone here keeps saying 'lo there is Christ' DON'T BELIEVE THEM . AGAIN, NOT MY WORDS. Not until AFTER THE workings of Satan.

But I do agree, the Pre Trib Apostasy is as real as you preach it to be. We just believe APOSTASY has a different meaning.

The PRE TRIBULATION APOSTASY DOCTRINE. :oops: How appropriate. That may just be the best moniker ever.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,768
8,276
113
As I am terribly sorry about how scared you are to face the devil. FAITH in the powers and works of God will make that fear go away and you too will be one of the ones to endure to the end without being deceived. BUT as everyone here keeps saying 'lo there is Christ' DON'T BELIEVE THEM . AGAIN, NOT MY WORDS. Not until AFTER THE workings of Satan.

But I do agree, the Pre Trib Apostasy is as real as you preach it to be. We just believe APOSTASY has a different meaning.

The PRE TRIBULATION APOSTASY DOCTRINE. :oops: How appropriate. That may just be the best moniker ever.
I really am praying that your brain may one day be unscrambled. This could take some time....:rolleyes:
 
O

Omegatime

Guest
Can any postribber explain the "all take the mark" anomaly?

I think it says " every man , woman, and child"
I know most bibles do say what you are saying but not everyone takes the mark.

Rev 20:4 Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands.
 
Dec 15, 2021
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Here is GOD ADDRESSING THOSE WHO TEACH THE PRE TRIB APOSTASY DOCTRINE


Ezekiel 13:2 Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, Hear ye the word of the LORD;

3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!

4 O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts.

5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.

6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The LORD saith and the LORD hath not sent them and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.

7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken?

8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.

9 And Mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD.

10 Because, even because THEY HAVE SEDUCED MY PEOPLE SAYING PEACE and there was no peace and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter:

WHOSE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE SEDUCED? WHO IS GOING TO HEAR 'PEACE AND SAFETY?'

11 Say unto them which daub it with untempered morter, that it shall fall: there shall be an overflowing shower; and ye, O great hailstones, shall fall; and a stormy wind shall rend it.

TO ALL THOSE PREACHING THE PRE TRIB APOSTASY DOCTRINE I SAY
IT SHALL FALL, THERE SHALL BE AN OVERFLOWING SHOWER AND YE, O GREAT HAILSTONES SHALL FALL AND A STORMY WIND SHALL REND IT

12 Lo, when the wall is fallen, shall it not be said unto you, Where is the daubing wherewith ye have daubed it?

IT ISN'T like we don't keep asking for you to lay it all out in plain GODS WORDS, which WILL have to be done at some point.


13 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even rend it with a stormy wind in My fury; and there shall be an overflowing shower in Mine anger, and great hailstones in My fury to consume it.

THAT IS WHAT GODS WRATH LOOKS LIKE

14 So will I break down the wall that ye have daubed with untempered morter, and bring it down to the ground, so that the foundation thereof shall be discovered, and it shall fall, and ye shall be consumed in the midst thereof: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

WHAT IS THE FOUNDATION OF PRE TRIB? IT HAS NONE. IT GOES AGAINST EVERYTHING GOD HAS WRITTEN.

15 Thus will I accomplish My wrath upon the wall, and upon them that have daubed it with untempered morter, and will say unto you, The wall is no more, neither they that daubed it;

16 To wit, the prophets of Israel which prophesy concerning Jerusalem, and which see visions of peace for her, and there is no peace, saith the Lord GOD.

17 Likewise, thou son of man, set thy face against the daughters of thy people, which prophesy out of their own heart; and prophesy thou against them,

18 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?

GET IT STRAIGHT. WILL YOU SAVE? NO, BUT YOU CAN "SAY" YOU WILL SAVE BY TEACHING PRE TRIB APOSTASY.

19 And will ye pollute Me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?


AGAIN, WHAT DOES PRE TRIB APOSTASY TEACH? BELIEVE THIS AND YOU ARE SAVED FROM TRIBULATION, DEATH. ARE THERE ANY OTHER DOCTRINES THAT TEACH WHAT PRE TRIB APOSTASY TEACHES?

20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

THERE WILL BE NO FLYING OFF TO HEAVEN.

21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver My people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

If God is delivering people out of YOUR hand that makes you one of THEM. Never mind, that is just conjecture

22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

PROMISING HIM LIFE WITH THE PRE TRIB APOSTASY DOCTRINE. AGAIN, IS THERE ANOTHER DOCTRINE ABOUT PROMISING LIFE BY 'FLYING' AWAY ? IF SO I HAVE NEVER HEARD IT

23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver My people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.


WARNED


17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.


My hands are clean
 
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