The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.
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You and i have already discussed this.
1. Had Lot looked back and disobeyed, he would be like his wife and not Saved. So, he was Saved by Obedience, not by being removed by the Power of God.
2. Noah would not had survived had he not Obeyed God and built the Ark. But he STILL HAD TO GO THROUGH THE RAIN, THE EFFECTS OF THE RAIN AND POWER OF THE WATER, AND HE HAD TO REMAIN INSIDE THE ARK UNTIL LAND APPEARED. Had he not Obeyed, he would have died.
Both Examples God [[did not Remove them from Destruction]], they had to OBEY GOD to survive.
1. Had Lot looked back and disobeyed, he would be like his wife and not Saved. So, he was Saved by Obedience, not by being removed by the Power of God.
2. Noah would not had survived had he not Obeyed God and built the Ark. But he STILL HAD TO GO THROUGH THE RAIN, THE EFFECTS OF THE RAIN AND POWER OF THE WATER, AND HE HAD TO REMAIN INSIDE THE ARK UNTIL LAND APPEARED. Had he not Obeyed, he would have died.
Both Examples God [[did not Remove them from Destruction]], they had to OBEY GOD to survive.
mockers and scoffers in the last day Jesus said and they would mock HIS coming or the promise of receiving us unto Himself. Some here have to suggest those who see the Pretrib Rapture have Distorted minds or are false teachers because one will not agree with their position. Yet they try to project how mature they are in the word but lack the fruits of the Spirit.
Prove me Wrong!
1. Had Lot looked back and disobeyed, he would be like his wife and not Saved. So, he was Saved by Obedience, not by being removed by the Power of God.
2. Noah would not had survived had he not Obeyed God and built the Ark and then entered the Ark. But he STILL HAD TO GO THROUGH THE RAIN, THE EFFECTS OF THE RAIN AND POWER OF THE WATER, AND HE HAD TO REMAIN INSIDE THE ARK UNTIL LAND APPEARED. Had he not Obeyed, he would have died.
Both Examples God [[did not Remove them from Destruction]], they had to OBEY GOD to survive.
If God made both Lot and Noah OBEY Specific Orders and [DID NOT] Miraculously remove them from harms way, why would there be a Secret, NON BIBLICAL Coming, before the Second Coming?
1. Had Lot looked back and disobeyed, he would be like his wife and not Saved. So, he was Saved by Obedience, not by being removed by the Power of God.
2. Noah would not had survived had he not Obeyed God and built the Ark and then entered the Ark. But he STILL HAD TO GO THROUGH THE RAIN, THE EFFECTS OF THE RAIN AND POWER OF THE WATER, AND HE HAD TO REMAIN INSIDE THE ARK UNTIL LAND APPEARED. Had he not Obeyed, he would have died.
Both Examples God [[did not Remove them from Destruction]], they had to OBEY GOD to survive.
If God made both Lot and Noah OBEY Specific Orders and [DID NOT] Miraculously remove them from harms way, why would there be a Secret, NON BIBLICAL Coming, before the Second Coming?
Rev7:14 "...these are the ones coming [G2064; participle] out of the GREAT tribulation..."
-- Revelation 7:14 Greek Text Analysis (biblehub.com)
...doesn't change their identity (these are NOT "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY") nor does it change the time-period IN WHICH they will exist... that is, IN the Trib years (esp, here stated as "THE GREAT tribulation," which is the SECOND HALF").
IOW, Rev7:14 is NOT a "RAPTURE" verse / passage / context.
-- Revelation 7:14 Greek Text Analysis (biblehub.com)
...doesn't change their identity (these are NOT "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY") nor does it change the time-period IN WHICH they will exist... that is, IN the Trib years (esp, here stated as "THE GREAT tribulation," which is the SECOND HALF").
IOW, Rev7:14 is NOT a "RAPTURE" verse / passage / context.
Heaven_Bound, post:
Prove me Wrong!
1. Had Lot looked back and disobeyed, he would be like his wife and not Saved. So, he was Saved by Obedience, not by being removed by the Power of God.
2. Noah would not had survived had he not Obeyed God and built the Ark and then entered the Ark. But he STILL HAD TO GO THROUGH THE RAIN, THE EFFECTS OF THE RAIN AND POWER OF THE WATER, AND HE HAD TO REMAIN INSIDE THE ARK UNTIL LAND APPEARED. Had he not Obeyed, he would have died.
Both Examples God [[did not Remove them from Destruction]], they had to OBEY GOD to survive.
If God made both Lot and Noah OBEY Specific Orders and [DID NOT] Miraculously remove them from harms way, why would there be a Secret, NON BIBLICAL Coming, before the Second Coming?
Prove me Wrong!
1. Had Lot looked back and disobeyed, he would be like his wife and not Saved. So, he was Saved by Obedience, not by being removed by the Power of God.
2. Noah would not had survived had he not Obeyed God and built the Ark and then entered the Ark. But he STILL HAD TO GO THROUGH THE RAIN, THE EFFECTS OF THE RAIN AND POWER OF THE WATER, AND HE HAD TO REMAIN INSIDE THE ARK UNTIL LAND APPEARED. Had he not Obeyed, he would have died.
Both Examples God [[did not Remove them from Destruction]], they had to OBEY GOD to survive.
If God made both Lot and Noah OBEY Specific Orders and [DID NOT] Miraculously remove them from harms way, why would there be a Secret, NON BIBLICAL Coming, before the Second Coming?
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There is appearing, as 1thess chapter 4:13-18 states and 1cor 15 and what Jesus said also in Mathew 24 and John chapter 14.
If the rature is so inconceivable because of human reasoning please tell me what happens to Enoch and Elijah? They were supernaturally taken as Jesus also was Taken UP in Acts chapter 1:9
tHE ANGELS SAID I AM SURE THEY DID NT LIE
And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Those who suggest the Rapture is unbiblical are just prideful because there are scriptures to support both pretrib and midrib Raptures. Yet I have never seen those who are preterib suggest those who hold to Mid-trib or no trib as unbiblical or false.
Those who are Mature know the coming of the Lord is Soon the doctrine of the imminent return of the Lord is what we all who are mature Hold to when it is we all can wrong, however, I see in the word of God the Pretrib if you don't fine. That doesn't make me false and you're right. YOur pride and arrogance are all that are being displayed with immaturity by calling names and saying one mind is distorted or a false teacher. Grow up.
If the rature is so inconceivable because of human reasoning please tell me what happens to Enoch and Elijah? They were supernaturally taken as Jesus also was Taken UP in Acts chapter 1:9
tHE ANGELS SAID I AM SURE THEY DID NT LIE
And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Those who suggest the Rapture is unbiblical are just prideful because there are scriptures to support both pretrib and midrib Raptures. Yet I have never seen those who are preterib suggest those who hold to Mid-trib or no trib as unbiblical or false.
Those who are Mature know the coming of the Lord is Soon the doctrine of the imminent return of the Lord is what we all who are mature Hold to when it is we all can wrong, however, I see in the word of God the Pretrib if you don't fine. That doesn't make me false and you're right. YOur pride and arrogance are all that are being displayed with immaturity by calling names and saying one mind is distorted or a false teacher. Grow up.
Exactly BECAUSE in Matthew 24 (and 25) Jesus is NOT covering the Subject of "our Rapture" ANYWHERE IN THEM!
[instead, He is covering the Subject of His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age, and that BRIEF TIME-PERIOD that immediately PRECEDES and LEADS UP TO *that*... aka the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period (Rev1:1 / 4:1 / 1:19c [Lk18:8, etc]), aka "THE SEVEN YEARS [of Tribulation period, otherwise called the 70th Week]";
When the FIRST "BIRTH PANG" (of the MANY "BEGINNING of birth PANGS") bursts on the scene, "our Rapture" will have ALREADY TAKEN PLACE;
IOW, EVERYTHING from Matt24:4-chpt end and thru chpt 25-end is what FOLLOWS "our Rapture," it is NOT covering the Subject OF "our Rapture" AT ALL]
[instead, He is covering the Subject of His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age, and that BRIEF TIME-PERIOD that immediately PRECEDES and LEADS UP TO *that*... aka the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period (Rev1:1 / 4:1 / 1:19c [Lk18:8, etc]), aka "THE SEVEN YEARS [of Tribulation period, otherwise called the 70th Week]";
When the FIRST "BIRTH PANG" (of the MANY "BEGINNING of birth PANGS") bursts on the scene, "our Rapture" will have ALREADY TAKEN PLACE;
IOW, EVERYTHING from Matt24:4-chpt end and thru chpt 25-end is what FOLLOWS "our Rapture," it is NOT covering the Subject OF "our Rapture" AT ALL]
The word of God from Genesis to REV shows the Supernatural protection and correction of God in many ways,
- BY a shout
- by an ark
- by making away through a sea and a river
- by stopping time
- by raining bread
- water coming from a rock
- firey Chariot
- Jaw bone of an ass
- smooth stones from a dried-up riverbank
- belly of a fish
- opening a dead womb
- raising the dead
- supernatural provision
@CS1 , I certainly DO believe that those who will be coming to faith in Christ FOLLOWING "our Rapture," will be supernaturally "protected" by God (as well as corrected)... I mentioned this in a number of past posts in this very thread. The "144,000" are a great example of this... not to mention "BLESSED is he that WAITETH and COMETH TO the 1335 days" (Dan12:12) and a NUMBER of other "BLESSED" passages speaking to this same point (re: the STILL-LIVING "saints" at the END of the Trib who will ENTER the MK age in their "mortal bodies" capable of reproducing / bearing children--a capacity that NO OTHER saints / believers will possess... )
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I disagree Matthew chapter 24 covers three things asked of Jesus by the disciples, THree.
Mathre 24:3
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying,
Jesus answered them all and you must also take what Jesus said in Mark and Luke on this topic too. I am not going to go into it again as I am not trying to have you agree with me I can careless. Just know insulting those you disagree with or calling them false will not help your cause. I'm sure you did not know Jesus was asked this three qestion in Matthew chapter 24, because if you did then you would know the context of all that he said. Jesus spoke of the present, the soon coming, and the future event leading to the end of the age.
I am done with you too. Please continue to scoff
Mathre 24:3
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying,
- “Tell us, when will these things be? And
- what will be the sign of Your coming,
- and of the end of the age?”
Jesus answered them all and you must also take what Jesus said in Mark and Luke on this topic too. I am not going to go into it again as I am not trying to have you agree with me I can careless. Just know insulting those you disagree with or calling them false will not help your cause. I'm sure you did not know Jesus was asked this three qestion in Matthew chapter 24, because if you did then you would know the context of all that he said. Jesus spoke of the present, the soon coming, and the future event leading to the end of the age.
I am done with you too
. Please continue to scoff
I disagree Matthew chapter 24 covers three things asked of Jesus by the disciples, THree.
Mathre 24:3
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying,
Jesus answered them all and you must also take what Jesus said in Mark and Luke on this topic too. I am not going to go into it again as I am not trying to have you agree with me I can careless. Just know insulting those you disagree with or calling them false will not help your cause. I'm sure you did not know Jesus was asked this three qestion in Matthew chapter 24, because if you did then you would know the context of all that he said. Jesus spoke of the present, the soon coming, and the future event leading to the end of the age.
I am done with you too. Please continue to scoff
Mathre 24:3
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying,
- “Tell us, when will these things be? And
- what will be the sign of Your coming,
- and of the end of the age?”
Jesus answered them all and you must also take what Jesus said in Mark and Luke on this topic too. I am not going to go into it again as I am not trying to have you agree with me I can careless. Just know insulting those you disagree with or calling them false will not help your cause. I'm sure you did not know Jesus was asked this three qestion in Matthew chapter 24, because if you did then you would know the context of all that he said. Jesus spoke of the present, the soon coming, and the future event leading to the end of the age.
I am done with you too
. Please continue to scoff
First of all, Christ describes Temple Destruction and the fulfillment of Daniel's Prophecy Daily Sacrifice would End, which the Temple was destroyed and Daily Sacrifice Ended when the Temple was destroyed in 70 A.D.
Then Christ explains, Tribulation and the events that were happening during Lot's/Noah's day are events we will know when Tribulation happens.
Then Christ describes the Second Coming/Rapture.
I will agree with End of Age!
Basically, we said same thing.
Nowhere, do we see where God removed His People from Earth to avoid Tribulation.
1. Noah, had to build an Ark and board the Ark, God [did not miraculously remove Noah from the Flood] but made him go through it
2. Lot, God did not Miraculously remove Him, Lot was given specific Orders he had to Obey to survive
3. God made Moses face Pharaoh and go through the Same Plagues as Egypt
4. Isaiah, did not escape being cut into half
5. Shadrach-Meshach-Abednego, did not Escape the Furnace and had to be tossed into it.
6. Daniel, had to face the Lions
7. The Apostles, did not escape torture and horrendous death [except one because he Received the Apocalypse]
So, why do us GENTILES, who are Grafted into the Fold, believe we will escape?
Denial, is why!
1. Noah, had to build an Ark and board the Ark, God [did not miraculously remove Noah from the Flood] but made him go through it
2. Lot, God did not Miraculously remove Him, Lot was given specific Orders he had to Obey to survive
3. God made Moses face Pharaoh and go through the Same Plagues as Egypt
4. Isaiah, did not escape being cut into half
5. Shadrach-Meshach-Abednego, did not Escape the Furnace and had to be tossed into it.
6. Daniel, had to face the Lions
7. The Apostles, did not escape torture and horrendous death [except one because he Received the Apocalypse]
So, why do us GENTILES, who are Grafted into the Fold, believe we will escape?
Denial, is why!
Yes, I do know this.
And I've addressed that very thing in many past posts:
[briefly here]
1) vv.2-3 = the 70ad events (like JESUS said in the other Olivet Discourse accounts, ALSO in Matt22:7, ALSO in Lk21:12-24a [which is where the response to THIS Q (re: "these things") is RECORDED], ALSO in Luke 19:42-44-what He said on the VERY DAY that the "69 Weeks" were CONCLUDED, ON Palm Sunday, WHEN He DID the Zech9:9 thing and SAID the Lk19:42-44 thing... both covering the SUBJECT of "the city / Jerusalem"... the Subect ALSO of the "70 WEEKS" prophecy in Dan9:24-27 which is said to be [the time-prophecy] "DETERMINED UPON thy [Daniel] people AND UPON thy [Daniel's] holy city"... the very thing that prophecy is about);
2) "and of thy coming" (every reference in this Olivet Discourse, TO THAT "coming," refers to His Second Coming TO THE EARTH" = "Son of man cometh / coming / shall come / etc" refers to His Second Coming TO THE EARTH designation, to judge [/govern] and TO REIGN (not to "our Rapture");
3) "and of the END [SINGULAR] of the AGE [SINGULAR]"... which I pointed out was a Q BASED ON what He had ALREADY SPOKEN to them about in Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 re: "the END [SINGULAR] of the AGE [SINGULAR]" when the ANGELS will "REAP" (gather OUT all things that OFFEND... "collect ye FIRST the TARES"... which is the OPPOSITE SEQUENCE from that of "our Rapture" event!);
Jesus had already told them of "the AGE [SINGULAR] TO COME" which they CORRECTLY *understood* to be what WE NOW call the earthly MK age (1000 yrs) they'd been promised[!];
At the time Jesus spoke His Olivet Discourse, He had NOT YET spoken ANYTHING re: "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]"...
...His Subject in and throughout His Olivet Discourse (BESIDES the 12 or so verses in Lk21:12-24a_, covering "the 70ad events," which verse 12 states must come "BEFORE ALL" the beginning of BPs [which are "Matt24:4-8 / Mk13:5-8 / Lk21:8-11" SAME EVENTS!-"the BoBPs"... but v.12 is saying the 70ad events must come BEFORE THOSE!]);
So YES, Jesus ANSWERS *THIS* question TOO...
Thus He answers ALL THREE QUESTIONS
(it is the "70ad events" [under pt. 1 above ^ ] which are RECORDED in Lk21:12-24a,b ALONE [in the Olivet Discourse, not that He doesn't cover it elsewhere ALSO, as I showed]... Everything ELSE in the Olivet Discourse is what STARTS WITH "THE BEGINNING of BIRTH PANGS" [kicking off that future time-period] which are EQUIVALENT to the SEALS, which Rev1:1 / 4:1 / 1:19c says are "things which MUST COME TO PASS IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (same phrase used in Lk18:8 "AVENGE in quickness [noun]" and in Rom16:20 "shall CRUSH Satan UNDER YOUR FEET in quickness [noun]"(not slated YET to have take place)... NOT unfold over the course of some 2000 years, as the "Historicits" suggest of the Book of Rev).
I've presented my case. May the readers judge.
You are free to believe as you see it.
[didn't mean to BOLD so much of this... OOPS!]
And I've addressed that very thing in many past posts:
[briefly here]
1) vv.2-3 = the 70ad events (like JESUS said in the other Olivet Discourse accounts, ALSO in Matt22:7, ALSO in Lk21:12-24a [which is where the response to THIS Q (re: "these things") is RECORDED], ALSO in Luke 19:42-44-what He said on the VERY DAY that the "69 Weeks" were CONCLUDED, ON Palm Sunday, WHEN He DID the Zech9:9 thing and SAID the Lk19:42-44 thing... both covering the SUBJECT of "the city / Jerusalem"... the Subect ALSO of the "70 WEEKS" prophecy in Dan9:24-27 which is said to be [the time-prophecy] "DETERMINED UPON thy [Daniel] people AND UPON thy [Daniel's] holy city"... the very thing that prophecy is about);
2) "and of thy coming" (every reference in this Olivet Discourse, TO THAT "coming," refers to His Second Coming TO THE EARTH" = "Son of man cometh / coming / shall come / etc" refers to His Second Coming TO THE EARTH designation, to judge [/govern] and TO REIGN (not to "our Rapture");
3) "and of the END [SINGULAR] of the AGE [SINGULAR]"... which I pointed out was a Q BASED ON what He had ALREADY SPOKEN to them about in Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 re: "the END [SINGULAR] of the AGE [SINGULAR]" when the ANGELS will "REAP" (gather OUT all things that OFFEND... "collect ye FIRST the TARES"... which is the OPPOSITE SEQUENCE from that of "our Rapture" event!);
Jesus had already told them of "the AGE [SINGULAR] TO COME" which they CORRECTLY *understood* to be what WE NOW call the earthly MK age (1000 yrs) they'd been promised[!];
At the time Jesus spoke His Olivet Discourse, He had NOT YET spoken ANYTHING re: "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]"...
...His Subject in and throughout His Olivet Discourse (BESIDES the 12 or so verses in Lk21:12-24a_, covering "the 70ad events," which verse 12 states must come "BEFORE ALL" the beginning of BPs [which are "Matt24:4-8 / Mk13:5-8 / Lk21:8-11" SAME EVENTS!-"the BoBPs"... but v.12 is saying the 70ad events must come BEFORE THOSE!]);
So YES, Jesus ANSWERS *THIS* question TOO...
Thus He answers ALL THREE QUESTIONS
(it is the "70ad events" [under pt. 1 above ^ ] which are RECORDED in Lk21:12-24a,b ALONE [in the Olivet Discourse, not that He doesn't cover it elsewhere ALSO, as I showed]... Everything ELSE in the Olivet Discourse is what STARTS WITH "THE BEGINNING of BIRTH PANGS" [kicking off that future time-period] which are EQUIVALENT to the SEALS, which Rev1:1 / 4:1 / 1:19c says are "things which MUST COME TO PASS IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (same phrase used in Lk18:8 "AVENGE in quickness [noun]" and in Rom16:20 "shall CRUSH Satan UNDER YOUR FEET in quickness [noun]"(not slated YET to have take place)... NOT unfold over the course of some 2000 years, as the "Historicits" suggest of the Book of Rev).
I've presented my case. May the readers judge.
You are free to believe as you see it.
[didn't mean to BOLD so much of this... OOPS!]
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