The Falling Away - pre-trib rapture or ???
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You are ruled by Snippets. Error by omission
Cherry pick verses and ignore others.
Have you ever noticed the scripture where Jesus said to his disciples not one hair of your head shall be harmed?
And yet all of them except John were martyred and died a violent death.
So is Jesus words in conflict?
Your turn to provide an explanation.
According to your pattern we have a problem
Cherry pick verses and ignore others.
Have you ever noticed the scripture where Jesus said to his disciples not one hair of your head shall be harmed?
And yet all of them except John were martyred and died a violent death.
So is Jesus words in conflict?
Your turn to provide an explanation.
According to your pattern we have a problem
FreeGrace2 said:
Did you type all this with a straight face? You know perfectly well that you NEVER posted any verse showing Jesus taking raptured believers to heaven.
No, the verses didn't disappear. They NEVER existed.
I didn't give you any limitations.
Your challenge is to provide a verse showing Jesus taking raptured beievers to heaven. Period. Can you do it?
Did you type all this with a straight face? You know perfectly well that you NEVER posted any verse showing Jesus taking raptured believers to heaven.
No, the verses didn't disappear. They NEVER existed.
I didn't give you any limitations.
Your challenge is to provide a verse showing Jesus taking raptured beievers to heaven. Period. Can you do it?
Those who have read and believe the Bible know better.
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. Theyhad not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life (this is a resurrection) and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
So, in 3 verses we find 3 mentions of the first resurrertion.
You are just delusional, from all your fantasy presumptions.
How dense are you trying to be? The First resurrection occurs AT the second coming. Not "after" as you keep screwing up.
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. Theyhad not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life (this is a resurrection) and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
So, in 3 verses we find 3 mentions of the first resurrertion.
You are just delusional, from all your fantasy presumptions.
How dense are you trying to be? The First resurrection occurs AT the second coming. Not "after" as you keep screwing up.
How did they get there in rev 19?
How did the 144k firstfruits get there in rev 14?
Was Jesus lying at the last supper when he told them he was building mansions in heaven? And said he would drink wine with them there?
It is tragic that you claim our deal is absent in scripture but will not even reconcile our verses.
How did the 144k firstfruits get there in rev 14?
Was Jesus lying at the last supper when he told them he was building mansions in heaven? And said he would drink wine with them there?
It is tragic that you claim our deal is absent in scripture but will not even reconcile our verses.
Lol
" came to life" is niv.
A poor poor translation.
In the greek it says " lived and reigned"
Nothing at all of a " came to life"
I already debated that some time ago. Everyone agreed it was bogus in the niv.
You really think the First resurrection has no one meeting Jesus in the air????
...and just has a small group on thrones WELL AFTER Jesus is standing on earth and armageddon is over?????
You think that IMPOSSIBILITY is a power point?????
" came to life" is niv.
A poor poor translation.
In the greek it says " lived and reigned"
Nothing at all of a " came to life"
I already debated that some time ago. Everyone agreed it was bogus in the niv.
You really think the First resurrection has no one meeting Jesus in the air????
...and just has a small group on thrones WELL AFTER Jesus is standing on earth and armageddon is over?????
You think that IMPOSSIBILITY is a power point?????
""". They came to life (this is a resurrection) and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
So, in 3 verses we find 3 mentions of the first resurrertion.
You are just delusional, from all your fantasy presumptions."""
This convoluted mess is silly.
Either get a power point or cease.
It is obvious that there is NO RESURRECTION happening in Revelation 20 concerning those on Thrones. That mention of first Resurrection is pointing to the fact they had been previously Resurrected with all the other Saints not just those on Thrones and it is mentioned to distinguish the first resurrection from the second Resurrection
5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
So, in 3 verses we find 3 mentions of the first resurrertion.
You are just delusional, from all your fantasy presumptions."""
This convoluted mess is silly.
Either get a power point or cease.
It is obvious that there is NO RESURRECTION happening in Revelation 20 concerning those on Thrones. That mention of first Resurrection is pointing to the fact they had been previously Resurrected with all the other Saints not just those on Thrones and it is mentioned to distinguish the first resurrection from the second Resurrection
Always trying to change to subject, in order to get the heat off your failure to provide any verse showing Jesus taking raptured believers to heaven, huh.
Oh well. As to your vague question, I guess by "they" you are referring to the dead saints who got there (I guess you mean 'heaven') through physical death.
Rev 14 is a look ahead chapter. Referring to the Second Advent. Yes, John is allowed to do that in his writings.
Of course not. Jesus DID leave His disciples, and go to heaven, after His ascension, and DID prepare rooms (not mansions) for His disciples.
His comment was to ASSURE them that they DID have a place in heaven. Is that too difficult for you to grasp?
OK, here's the deal. Provide just ONE verse showing Jesus TAKING raptured believers to heaven, and I WILL repent of my view.
Because nothing you have provided up to this point proves the theory that Jesus takes raptured believers to heaven.
Oh well. As to your vague question, I guess by "they" you are referring to the dead saints who got there (I guess you mean 'heaven') through physical death.
Rev 14 is a look ahead chapter. Referring to the Second Advent. Yes, John is allowed to do that in his writings.
Of course not. Jesus DID leave His disciples, and go to heaven, after His ascension, and DID prepare rooms (not mansions) for His disciples.
His comment was to ASSURE them that they DID have a place in heaven. Is that too difficult for you to grasp?
OK, here's the deal. Provide just ONE verse showing Jesus TAKING raptured believers to heaven, and I WILL repent of my view.
Because nothing you have provided up to this point proves the theory that Jesus takes raptured believers to heaven.
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OK, genius, let's try to unpack this for you.
In v.4 we read about martyred saints from the Trib. Or did you miss that part? So when "they lived and reigned" follows, what do you think did happen to them?
iow, explain how martyred saints "lived and reigned" unless they were resurrected. I'm sure this should be easy for one so intelligent.
Well, how about that! Theology by democracy.
What a dumb question. I thought you were smarter than this.
How many resurrections do you think are involved with saved people? have you ever counted them? Why don't you?
Where do you get "well after"? It's just like you to keep making up stuff that isn't there.
I think your brain isn't in gear yet. Go ahead and count the number of resurrections for believers and get back to me.
Let's start with the basics.
In v.4 we read about martyred saints from the Trib. Or did you miss that part? So when "they lived and reigned" follows, what do you think did happen to them?
iow, explain how martyred saints "lived and reigned" unless they were resurrected. I'm sure this should be easy for one so intelligent.
Well, how about that! Theology by democracy.
What a dumb question. I thought you were smarter than this.
How many resurrections do you think are involved with saved people? have you ever counted them? Why don't you?
Where do you get "well after"? It's just like you to keep making up stuff that isn't there.
I think your brain isn't in gear yet. Go ahead and count the number of resurrections for believers and get back to me.
Let's start with the basics.
Why bother with power points? I have the Bible. You should do the same.
Just keep proving your delusional and irrational thinking.
Well, you are correct on your last point.
but, regarding your claim about being "previously resurrected", please point out from the text where you got that bit of info.
iow, prove your claim.
Just keep proving your delusional and irrational thinking.
Well, you are correct on your last point.
but, regarding your claim about being "previously resurrected", please point out from the text where you got that bit of info.
iow, prove your claim.
You said: "OK, here's the deal. Provide just ONE verse showing Jesus TAKING raptured believers to heaven, and I WILL repent of my view."
I AGREE and i even offered them, anyone, $1,000 to just bring forth one verse that says " rapture of Bride/Elect/Saints/Church before His Coming.
They all gave it there best shot but will never come up with scripture = because it never came from the Mouth of God.
Amen. And the other poster will try anything to keep changing the subject because he knows there are no verses that show Jesus taking raptured believers to heaven.
The very key to their pretrib rapture theory is NOT found in Scripture. That should be a clue for them, but instead, they remain clueless.
The very key to their pretrib rapture theory is NOT found in Scripture. That should be a clue for them, but instead, they remain clueless.
i get the biggest laugh when they say: "we posted the scriptures" = not one
And the ones they do post only support the Truth of what is written - Resurrection at His Coming - nothing burger before that
The main point of pre-trib is to establish a man-made teaching and to divide the Body of Christ.
The Lord allows it to be for a number of reasons as HE "judges the thoughts and intents of the heart."
i can assure you that it's not a good place to be when God allows you to remain as you are - i've been there and done that.
And the ones they do post only support the Truth of what is written - Resurrection at His Coming - nothing burger before that
The main point of pre-trib is to establish a man-made teaching and to divide the Body of Christ.
The Lord allows it to be for a number of reasons as HE "judges the thoughts and intents of the heart."
i can assure you that it's not a good place to be when God allows you to remain as you are - i've been there and done that.
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"Pre-trib rapture" IN NO WAY divides "the body of Christ"... (tho Abs does hold to the "partial rapture theory," which I would say such an idea does have such an effect).
I've constantly maintained that the "Rapture" pertains SOLELY TO (to/for/about) "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (Eph1:20-23 WHEN [as to its existence]<--which fact you disagree with); that is ALL members of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [ALL those having come to faith "in this present age [singular]"] WILL GO in the "Rapture" (which occurs ONLY ONCE, at ONE POINT IN TIME)...
The "Rapture" does NOT pertain to all other saints of all OTHER time periods (not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not to MK saints; and no, you cannot be an OT saint even if you cry and scream and say, "but I WANNABE!!" The fact is, you are not one.
You did not come to faith in and during that time period, see... They did though... I mean, those that did, did )
I've constantly maintained that the "Rapture" pertains SOLELY TO (to/for/about) "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (Eph1:20-23 WHEN [as to its existence]<--which fact you disagree with); that is ALL members of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [ALL those having come to faith "in this present age [singular]"] WILL GO in the "Rapture" (which occurs ONLY ONCE, at ONE POINT IN TIME)...
The "Rapture" does NOT pertain to all other saints of all OTHER time periods (not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not to MK saints; and no, you cannot be an OT saint even if you cry and scream and say, "but I WANNABE!!" The fact is, you are not one.
You did not come to faith in and during that time period, see... They did though... I mean, those that did, did )-
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