The End Times: Who is the Beast and the Antichrist?

[seekingthemindofChrist]

Just to keep things from being wrongly conflated...

Revelation chapter 17

[1] And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
[2] With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
[3] So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
[4] And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
[5] And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
[6] And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
[7] And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
[8] The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
[9] And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
[10] And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
[11] And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
[12] And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
[13] These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
[14] These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
[15] And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
[16] And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
[17] For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
[18] And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

In this 17th chapter of the book of Revelation, there are two primary and different entities being described:

1. “The great whore” (vs. 1), who is not only a “whore” (vss. 15-16), but also “THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH” (vs. 5).

In other words, in the same way a natural mother is the progenitor or the person from which her children originate or descend, whoever this “whore” is, she is the spiritual “MOTHER” or progenitor of the “HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH” which have descended from her.

This is a very significant point, and we simply must not overlook it.

This “great whore,” or “whore,” or “MOTHER OF HARLOTS” is also described as being a “woman” (vss. 3-4, 6-7, 9), and we are told exactly what she represents:

Revelation 17:18

“And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.”

This “great whore,” or “whore,” or “MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH,” or “woman” is “that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.”

Let me pause here for just a moment to make the following very important point:

Revelation 1:19

“Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;”

When John received his revelation from Jesus Christ, he was shown “things which are, and things which shall be hereafter.”

Why is this significant?

It is significant because when we read how “the woman” is “that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth,” this does not necessarily mean that this “great city” was then reigning. In other words, it could also easily mean that this “great city” would be reigning “hereafter.”

Please keep this in mind, and I will address this further momentarily.

2. “A scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns” that the “woman sits upon” (vs. 3), or “the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and the ten horns” (vs. 7).

Again, there are two different entities being described here, and we must not conflate the two or somehow erroneously combine the two into being one and the same entity. In other words, there is “a beast,” and there is also a “woman” who “sits upon” it or who is being “carried” by it.

Before we briefly look at some other descriptors that we are given in relation to this “beast,” let us first determine what a “beast” actually represents in Bible prophecy.

Like John, the prophet Daniel had visions concerning “beasts,” and here is what they represent:

Daniel 7:17

“These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.”

Daniel 7:23

“Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.”

In Bible prophecy, a “beast” is representative of a “king” and his “kingdom.”

Whoever this “beast/king/kingdom” is, it has “seven heads and ten horns” (Revelation 17:3, 7), so what do “heads” and “horns” represent in Bible prophecy?

Regarding the “seven heads,” we read:

Revelation 17:9

“And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.”

These “seven heads” represent “seven mountains” or “seven hills.”

Please also note that these “seven heads,” or “seven mountains,” or "seven hills" are part of the beast (Revelation 17:3, 7).

In other words, these “seven mountains” or “seven hills” pertain to “the beast,” and not to the “woman” who is sitting upon “the beast” and its “seven mountains” or “seven hills.”

Again, there are clearly two different entities being spoken of here, and we simply must not erroneously conflate the two.

Having determined what these “seven heads” represent, what do the “ten horns” represent?

Revelation chapter 17

[12] And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
[13] These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
[14] These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
[15] And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
[16] And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
[17] For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
[18] And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

These “ten horns” upon “the beast” represent “ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast” (vs. 12).

Please notice that these “ten horns” or “ten kings” had not yet received their kingdoms at the time of John’s writing, so, again, when we read about how they “shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire” (vs. 16), we are reading of a FUTURE time frame or of that which shall occur "hereafter" (Revelation 1:19).

With such being the case, it is beyond plausible that “the whore,” or “woman,” or "that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth" that these ten kings will hate is referring to a FUTURE reign as well.

To summarize, here is what the Bible foretold:

That there would be a “beast” or “kingdom” which would have “seven heads,” or “seven mountains,” or “seven hills.”

Furthermore, the Bible foretold of a time when “ten horns” would be upon this “beast” or when “ten kings” would give their power to this "beast/kingdom" to burn “the woman” or “that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.”

“The beast” is the Vatican, and “the woman” or “the whore” is Jerusalem which will enter into a last days agreement with the Vatican, and this is why she is depicted as sitting atop the beast.

This really is not that complicated.

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

Btw, here is why I said "seven mountains" or "seven hills" in my previous post:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g3735/kjv/tr/0-1/

The Greek word oros, which is translated into English as "mountains" in Revelation 17:9, is translated into English as "hill" in Matthew 5:14, Luke 4:29, and Luke 9:37.

Furthermore, there are several Bible versions which say "seven hills" in Revelation 17:9.

https://biblehub.com/revelation/17-9.htm

Of course, Rome has long been identified as the "City of Seven Hills."

Rome is the beast with the seven heads or the seven hills, and the whore or woman who sits upon her is Jerusalem.

Again, Rome and its ten horns or ten kings will ultimately turn against the whore or woman and burn her with fire, and Rome is not going to be burning itself, so please do not conflate the two different entities being spoken of here.

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

1 Peter 5:12-13

"By Silvanus, a faithful brother unto you, as I suppose, I have written briefly, exhorting, and testifying that this is the true grace of God wherein ye stand. The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son."

In a previous post, which can be found here...

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...and-the-antichrist.212877/page-5#post-5172789

...I documented Peter’s whereabouts in the book of Acts and the epistles to show that he was more than likely writing from Jerusalem when he referred to “the church that is at Babylon.”

In this post, I will look at this same portion of scripture from the angle of the “you” or “ye” to whom Peter was writing.

First, let us properly determine exactly who these "you” or “ye" were.

1 Peter 1:1-2

"Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied."

These "strangers" to whom Peter was writing were not "strangers" in the sense that they were "strangers from the covenants of promise" (Ephesians 2:12), but instead they were "strangers" in the sense that they were "strangers and pilgrims" (1 Peter 2:11) who were "passing the time of their sojourning here in fear" (1 Peter 1:17). In other words, they were Christians who recognized that this present heaven and earth were not their final destination (2 Peter 3:13).

Also, these "strangers" or Christian pilgrims were "scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia.”

Well, what does this mean?

The underlying Greek word which is here translated into English as "scattered" is diaspora, and it relates to either the scattering of Jews from Israel into Gentile nations, or the scattering of Christians among the Gentiles.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g1290/kjv/tr/0-1/

I never claimed to be too bright (apart from the Lord's help), but it seems to me that if Peter was writing to those who had been scattered among the Gentiles (Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia), then he must have been writing to those who were scattered from somewhere in Israel, and I think that I know exactly where that somewhere in Israel was:

Jerusalem.

In other words, it would seem quite odd to me to see Peter writing to those who were scattered among Gentile nations if he was writing from a Gentile nation, like literal Babylon, himself.

Anyhow, we do read of the following scatterings in the book of Acts:

Acts 8:1

"And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles."

Well, there is one scattering FROM JERUSALEM, and this scattering excluded the apostles, of which Peter was one. In other words, Peter remained IN JERUSALEM while others were scattered away from it. Although this scattering only went as far as "the regions of Judaea and Samaria,” we do read of an additional scattering which was the direct result of this same persecution IN JERUSALEM.

Acts 11:19-20

"Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only. And some of them were men of Cyprus and Cyrene, which, when they were come to Antioch, spake unto the Grecians, preaching the Lord Jesus."

Again, these people were all scattered FROM JERUSALEM, so what were they doing IN JERUSALEM before this scattering began?

Is it possible that at least some of those who were scattered included the following?

Acts 2:5-11

"And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God."

Again:

Acts 2:41-42

"Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

I do not know of any way to properly determine as to how many of these three thousand souls who were saved on the day of Pentecost and continued in the apostles' doctrine were "Jews or proselytes" (Acts 2:10), but they obviously were one or the other. Also, these three thousand souls would have been quite familiar with Peter since it was his sermon on the day of Pentecost which led to them being saved.

Could it be that these were some of the same "you" or “ye” to whom Peter was writing in his first epistle?

In other words, could it be that these were some of the same men who got saved IN JERUSALEM, only to be later "scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bythinia" (1 Peter 1:1)?

In any case, they were obviously scattered from somewhere, and the most likely somewhere is JERUSALEM. If they were indeed scattered FROM JERUSALEM, even as others obviously were (Acts 8:1, 11:19-20), then ought we not to at least consider that Peter was writing to them from the very same place where they were scattered from?

Anyhow, it is a possibility, and it has some scriptural merit to it, but I cannot even begin to imagine that when Peter wrote from “Babylon” to those who had been scattered that they were somehow scattered from literal Babylon.

Again, I have already shown that "Babylon" refers directly to JERUSALEM, and to no other, in the book of Revelation, and I have also previously documented how Peter was most often found in JERUSALEM in the book of Acts and the epistles, so it is no great stretch of one’s imagination to consider that Peter referred to JERUSALEM as "Babylon" in his first epistle in the same way his fellow apostle John did in the book of Revelation.

If Peter was not referring to literal Babylon (and nothing in scripture even hints that he was ever there), and if he was not referring to Jerusalem (which is where he is most often found in the book of Acts and the epistles), then what was he referring to?

 

[Rainrider]

There's a thread right now called "What is the point of being a prophet?" where the original poster starts with that question and then several posts later give his prophecy about the beast which he thinks is Russia, the antichrist which he thinks is Putin and the US he thinks is Babylon. There are too many Bible verses that contradict that prophecy and I posted that as such.

I'm truly surprised that no one is posting against that false prophecy except me though. This forum is well versed in the Rapture and its various positions of No-. Pre-, Mid-, and Post-Tribulation Rapture. So the silence on other areas of study on the end times is quite significant and I think strange.

I think this is a very important topic since the end times and the revealing of the beast is fast approaching with a lot of false prophecy is coming out of the woodwork lately to try to distract us from the real deal. I don't think we should be uninformed about this. So I'm asking everyone: Who do you think is the beast, the antichrist and Babylon? Please post the Bible verses that brought you to that belief.

Thanks!


🍄

I will make this as short as I can. Keep in mind this is going to cover some from Josephus, as we all know the Word doesn't give us details on the destruction of the second Temple.

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.


Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

I know about the idea that this is speaking of Rome. However as we know HaShem doesn't place the action of one on any other. So if we look to history, and what the only eye witness has to say we find something that is never talked of. In The Complete Works of Josephus, page 895 we find that Titus said not to burn or damage the Temple. However as Titus was resting from a battle, someone came and told him, the Temple was on fire. Titus got up ran out to try to put the fire out.
We are not told who started the fire. However, it is clear from this account that Titus was against the distribution of the Temple.
Knowing that under Titus were the 10th and 11th legions, and that were made up of mostly Muslim people, one may draw the conclusion that it may have been a Muslim that set it on fire.
We must also look at the wording given in the 2 chapters above. It is from the people that did the dead, not their leader. After all, if your leader says don't, and you do you will face the consequences not them. As it stands, there isn't one thing that points to any nation as being responsible. So we are left to try and determine this on our own. Using what bread crumbs we have.
The treaty is mentioned again in Rev. 13. At lest hinted at anyway. Please see Rev. 13:5. However this doesn't tell us much more than we know from Dan. 9:27. So we must look for other clues. We find one in Rev. 17.

Rev 17:3¶So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

There 2 things we must think about here. First the Beast here may be the same one we seen it Rev.13. Next we must think about what the 2 things depicts in prophecy. A beast is always a symbol of a political power, and a women is always a symbol of a religion. So what we find is a religion either backed by, or in support of a government. One that is covered in the blood of saints. After making war with them for 3.5 years it makes sense that she would be.
Now to close this. It is my thinking, and that doesn't mean it is any more right or wrong than other ideas, that we should be looking at Islam. The head with a deadly wound.
If we look at history again, we find that the Ottoman Empire suffered such a wound. After ww1, a treaty was signed by them, in which they were forced to brake up their holdings, and dissolve the caliphate. Bring to an end the power Islam once held. For the next 70 years or so, we didn't hear much about Islam. Yet now they are everywhere. Bring with them, hate, death, and division. They want nothing more that to remove the People of the Book. In other words, to remove HaShem, and his people from the earth.
As we know, the RCC doesn't teach against Yeshua. In fact they teach of Him. They teach that He is the only way to salvation. That in my mind disqualifies them. Bring us to one last point.
Islam is a political, and spiritual system in one. Their leaders get their power from the religion, and the government follows the teachings of their book. All laws are based on the writings, and wars are fought under the same.
So who is the beast? We will know when he steps up to do his work. After all, prophecy is always best understood in hind sight. Yet I do think he will come from Turkey or Iran.

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

Revelation 14:8

"And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication."

Revelation 17:5

"And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

This is nothing new either.

In other words, God has been saying such things as this about Jerusalem for quite some time.

Here is but one example:

Eze 16:1
Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Eze 16:2
Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations,
Eze 16:3
And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto Jerusalem; Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of Canaan; thy father was an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite.
Eze 16:4
And as for thy nativity, in the day thou wast born thy navel was not cut, neither wast thou washed in water to supple thee; thou wast not salted at all, nor swaddled at all.
Eze 16:5
None eye pitied thee, to do any of these unto thee, to have compassion upon thee; but thou wast cast out in the open field, to the lothing of thy person, in the day that thou wast born.
Eze 16:6
And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live.
Eze 16:7
I have caused thee to multiply as the bud of the field, and thou hast increased and waxen great, and thou art come to excellent ornaments: thy breasts are fashioned, and thine hair is grown, whereas thou wast naked and bare.
Eze 16:8
Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.
Eze 16:9
Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil.
Eze 16:10
I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.
Eze 16:11
I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck.
Eze 16:12
And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.
Eze 16:13
Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.
Eze 16:14
And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 16:15
But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.
Eze 16:16
And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.
Eze 16:17
Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,
Eze 16:18
And tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them.
Eze 16:19
My meat also which I gave thee, fine flour, and oil, and honey, wherewith I fed thee, thou hast even set it before them for a sweet savour: and thus it was, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 16:20
Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter,
Eze 16:21
That thou hast slain my children, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them?
Eze 16:22
And in all thine abominations and thy whoredoms thou hast not remembered the days of thy youth, when thou wast naked and bare, and wast polluted in thy blood.
Eze 16:23
And it came to pass after all thy wickedness, (woe, woe unto thee! saith the Lord GOD)
Eze 16:24
That thou hast also built unto thee an eminent place, and hast made thee an high place in every street.
Eze 16:25
Thou hast built thy high place at every head of the way, and hast made thy beauty to be abhorred, and hast opened thy feet to every one that passed by, and multiplied thy whoredoms.
Eze 16:26
Thou hast also committed fornication with the Egyptians thy neighbours, great of flesh; and hast increased thy whoredoms, to provoke me to anger.
Eze 16:27
Behold, therefore I have stretched out my hand over thee, and have diminished thine ordinary food, and delivered thee unto the will of them that hate thee, the daughters of the Philistines, which are ashamed of thy lewd way.
Eze 16:28
Thou hast played the whore also with the Assyrians, because thou wast unsatiable; yea, thou hast played the harlot with them, and yet couldest not be satisfied.
Eze 16:29
Thou hast moreover multiplied thy fornication in the land of Canaan unto Chaldea; and yet thou wast not satisfied herewith.
Eze 16:30
How weak is thine heart, saith the Lord GOD, seeing thou doest all these things, the work of an imperious whorish woman;
Eze 16:31
In that thou buildest thine eminent place in the head of every way, and makest thine high place in every street; and hast not been as an harlot, in that thou scornest hire;
Eze 16:32
But as a wife that committeth adultery, which taketh strangers instead of her husband!
Eze 16:33
They give gifts to all whores: but thou givest thy gifts to all thy lovers, and hirest them, that they may come unto thee on every side for thy whoredom.
Eze 16:34
And the contrary is in thee from other women in thy whoredoms, whereas none followeth thee to commit whoredoms: and in that thou givest a reward, and no reward is given unto thee, therefore thou art contrary.

Please keep reading in my next post.

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

Eze 16:35
Wherefore, O harlot, hear the word of the LORD:
Eze 16:36
Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thy filthiness was poured out, and thy nakedness discovered through thy whoredoms with thy lovers, and with all the idols of thy abominations, and by the blood of thy children, which thou didst give unto them;
Eze 16:37
Behold, therefore I will gather all thy lovers, with whom thou hast taken pleasure, and all them that thou hast loved, with all them that thou hast hated; I will even gather them round about against thee, and will discover thy nakedness unto them, that they may see all thy nakedness.
Eze 16:38
And I will judge thee, as women that break wedlock and shed blood are judged; and I will give thee blood in fury and jealousy.
Eze 16:39
And I will also give thee into their hand, and they shall throw down thine eminent place, and shall break down thy high places: they shall strip thee also of thy clothes, and shall take thy fair jewels, and leave thee naked and bare.
Eze 16:40
They shall also bring up a company against thee, and they shall stone thee with stones, and thrust thee through with their swords.
Eze 16:41
And they shall burn thine houses with fire, and execute judgments upon thee in the sight of many women: and I will cause thee to cease from playing the harlot, and thou also shalt give no hire any more.
Eze 16:42
So will I make my fury toward thee to rest, and my jealousy shall depart from thee, and I will be quiet, and will be no more angry.
Eze 16:43
Because thou hast not remembered the days of thy youth, but hast fretted me in all these things; behold, therefore I also will recompense thy way upon thine head, saith the Lord GOD: and thou shalt not commit this lewdness above all thine abominations.

There she is, folks.

Jerusalem.

The great whore with whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication.

Not only the great whore, but THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

What you say about Jerusalem is interesting, I will look into this further, However we do not have the full details in the Bible to be certain.

We have more than enough details to be certain.

Here are some more:

Revelation 18:11-16

“And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men. And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all. THE MERCHANTS OF THESE THINGS, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!”

In verse 15, we see that “the merchants of these things,” or the things which are listed in verses 12 and 13, shall weep and mourn when they see “that great city” (vs. 16) burning.

With this in mind, let us quickly look at some of “these things” that the merchants will be selling to “that great city” in the last days so we can see how they are all related to the temple which will be situated in Jerusalem at that time.

Revelation 18:12

"The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,"

This is the only place in the New Testament where thyine wood is mentioned.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g2367/kjv/tr/0-1/

So, what is thyine wood?

https://www.biblicalcyclopedia.com/A/almug.html

Almug

Al'mug

(Hebrew only in the plural almuggim', אִלמֻגַּים, according to Bohlen, from the Sanscrit micata, a similar wood, al- being the Arab. article, 1Ki 10:11-12; Sept. τὰ ξύλα τὰ πελεκητά, Vulg. ligna thyina, Auth. Vers. "algum-trees"), or ALGUM SEE ALGUM (Hebrew likewise only in plur. algummim', אִלגּוּמִּים, by transposition from the preceding, 2Ch 2:8, Vulg. ligna pinea; 2Ch 9:10-11, ligna thyina; Sept. ξύλα τὰ πεύκινα, Auth. Vers. "algum-trees"), a kind of precious wood brought along with gold and precious stones from Ophir by the navy of Hiram in the time of Solomon, and employed by him for the ornaments of the temple and palace, as well as for making musical instruments (1Ki 10:11-12), and previously unknown to the Israelites (2Ch 9:10-11), although it is stated to have been also procured from Lebanon (2Ch 2:8). The Sept. translators of Kings understand "hewn wood" to be meant, but in Chron. it is rendered "pine wood," as by the Vulg. in one passage, although elsewhere "thyine-wood" (comp. Re 18:12), or citron-wood.

According to the biblical encyclopedia, thyine wood is the same thing as the almug/algum trees which were brought to Jerusalem by Hiram’s navy in the time of Solomon, and this wood was used in the house of the Lord or the temple. Furthermore, up until that time, no such trees or wood had been seen in Jerusalem, so this was a rarity to say the least.

1 Kings 10:11-12

“And the navy also of Hiram, that brought gold from Ophir, brought in from Ophir great plenty of almug trees, and precious stones. And the king made of the almug trees pillars for the house of the LORD, and for the king's house, harps also and psalteries for singers: there came no such almug trees, nor were seen unto this day.”

Here is how these verses read in the Latin Vulgate:

https://vulgate.org/ot/1kings_10.htm

11 sed et classis Hiram quae portabat aurum de Ophir adtulit ex Ophir ligna thyina multa nimis et gemmas pretiosas

(The navy also of Hiram, which brought gold from Ophir, brought from Ophir great plenty of thyine trees, and precious stones.

12 fecitque rex de lignis thyinis fulchra domus Domini et domus regiae et citharas lyrasque cantoribus non sunt adlata huiuscemodi ligna thyina neque visa usque in praesentem diem

And the king made of the thyine trees the rails of the house of the Lord, and of the king's house: and citterns and harps for singers: there were no such thyine trees as these brought nor seen unto this day)

Again, these thyine trees were a rarity, and they were brought to Jerusalem, for use in the temple, via Hiram’s navy.

We have the same account here:

2 Chronicles 9:10-11

“And the servants also of Huram, and the servants of Solomon, which brought gold from Ophir, brought algum trees and precious stones. And the king made of the algum trees terraces to the house of the LORD, and to the king's palace, and harps and psalteries for singers: and there were none such seen before in the land of Judah.”

Here is how these verses read in the Latin Vulgate:

https://vulgate.org/ot/2chronicles_9.htm

10 sed et servi Hiram cum servis Salomonis adtulerunt aurum de Ophir et ligna thyina et gemmas pretiosissimas

And the servants also of Hiram, with the servants of Solomon, brought gold from Ophir, and thyine trees, and most precious stones:

11 de quibus fecit rex de lignis scilicet thyinis gradus in domo Domini et in domo regia citharas quoque et psalteria cantoribus numquam visa sunt in terra Iuda ligna talia

And the king made of the thyine trees stairs in the house of the Lord, and in the king's house, and harps and psalteries for the singing men: never were there seen such trees in the land of Juda.

The only times that we see this type of wood mentioned in the Bible is when it is being imported into Jerusalem by sea merchants to be primarily used in the temple.

Should we foolishly ignore this reality or that this is one of the “these things” which the sea merchants will be bringing to this “great city” in the last days?

And then there is this:

Revelation 18:12

"The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,"

Compared to the following:

1 Chronicles 29:1-2

“Furthermore David the king said unto all the congregation, Solomon my son, whom alone God hath chosen, is yet young and tender, and the work is great: for the palace is not for man, but for the LORD God. Now I have prepared with all my might for the house of my God the gold for things to be made of gold, and the silver for things of silver, and the brass for things of brass, the iron for things of iron, and wood for things of wood; onyx stones, and stones to be set, glistering stones, and of divers colours, and all manner of precious stones, and marble stones in abundance.”

And this:

Revelation 18:12

"The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,"

Exodus 28:1-6

“And take thou unto thee Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him, from among the children of Israel, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office, even Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar, Aaron's sons. And thou shalt make holy garments for Aaron thy brother for glory and for beauty. And thou shalt speak unto all that are wise hearted, whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom, that they may make Aaron's garments to consecrate him, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office. And these are the garments which they shall make; a breastplate, and an ephod, and a robe, and a broidered coat, a mitre, and a girdle: and they shall make holy garments for Aaron thy brother, and his sons, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office. And they shall take gold, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen. And they shall make the ephod of gold, of blue, and of purple, of scarlet, and fine twined linen, with cunning work.”

In a previous post, I mentioned why the blue is missing from the garment in the descriptions we are given of this “woman” or “great city” in the book of Revelation, and I will elaborate on that more in a future post when I can find the time to do so.

Please continue reading in my next post

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

And this:

Revelation 18:13

“And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.”

Compared to:

Exodus 29:1-2

“And this is the thing that thou shalt do unto them to hallow them, to minister unto me in the priest's office: Take one young bullock, and two rams without blemish, And unleavened bread, and cakes unleavened tempered with oil, and wafers unleavened anointed with oil: of wheaten flour shalt thou make them.”

And this:

Revelation 18:13

“And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.”

Compared to:

Exodus 30:22-29

“Moreover the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Take thou also unto thee principal spices, of pure myrrh five hundred shekels, and of sweet cinnamon half so much, even two hundred and fifty shekels, and of sweet calamus two hundred and fifty shekels, And of cassia five hundred shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary, and of oil olive an hin: And thou shalt make it an oil of holy ointment, an ointment compound after the art of the apothecary: it shall be an holy anointing oil. And thou shalt anoint the tabernacle of the congregation therewith, and the ark of the testimony, And the table and all his vessels, and the candlestick and his vessels, and the altar of incense, And the altar of burnt offering with all his vessels, and the laver and his foot. And thou shalt sanctify them, that they may be most holy: whatsoever toucheth them shall be holy.”

And this:

Revelation 18:13

“And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.”

The Greek word which is here translated into English as “odours” is thymiama:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g2368/kjv/tr/0-1/

It appears five other times in the New Testament, and it always has to do with the altar of incense:

Luke 1:10

“And the whole multitude of the people were praying without at the time of incense.”

Luke 1:11

“And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense.”

Revelation 5:8

“And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.”

Revelation 8:3

“And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.”

Revelation 8:4

“And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.”

Compared to:

Exodus 30:1

“And thou shalt make an altar to burn incense upon: of shittim wood shalt thou make it.”

Exodus 30:7-9

“And Aaron shall burn thereon sweet incense every morning: when he dresseth the lamps, he shall burn incense upon it. And when Aaron lighteth the lamps at even, he shall burn incense upon it, a perpetual incense before the LORD throughout your generations. Ye shall offer no strange incense thereon, nor burnt sacrifice, nor meat offering; neither shall ye pour drink offering thereon.”

Exodus 30:27

“And the table and all his vessels, and the candlestick and his vessels, and the altar of incense,”

And this:

Revelation 18:13

“And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.”

Compared to:

Exodus 30:25-30

“And thou shalt make it an oil of holy ointment, an ointment compound after the art of the apothecary: it shall be an holy anointing oil. And thou shalt anoint the tabernacle of the congregation therewith, and the ark of the testimony, And the table and all his vessels, and the candlestick and his vessels, and the altar of incense, And the altar of burnt offering with all his vessels, and the laver and his foot. And thou shalt sanctify them, that they may be most holy: whatsoever toucheth them shall be holy. And thou shalt anoint Aaron and his sons, and consecrate them, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office.”

And this:

Revelation 18:13

“And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.”

Compared to:

Exodus 30:34-36

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Take unto thee sweet spices, stacte, and onycha, and galbanum; these sweet spices with pure frankincense: of each shall there be a like weight: And thou shalt make it a perfume, a confection after the art of the apothecary, tempered together, pure and holy: And thou shalt beat some of it very small, and put of it before the testimony in the tabernacle of the congregation, where I will meet with thee: it shall be unto you most holy.”

And this:

Revelation 18:13

“And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.”

Compared to:

Exodus 29:36-41

“And thou shalt offer every day a bullock for a sin offering for atonement: and thou shalt cleanse the altar, when thou hast made an atonement for it, and thou shalt anoint it, to sanctify it. Seven days thou shalt make an atonement for the altar, and sanctify it; and it shall be an altar most holy: whatsoever toucheth the altar shall be holy. Now this is that which thou shalt offer upon the altar; two lambs of the first year day by day continually. The one lamb thou shalt offer in the morning; and the other lamb thou shalt offer at even: And with the one lamb a tenth deal of flour mingled with the fourth part of an hin of beaten oil; and the fourth part of an hin of wine for a drink offering. And the other lamb thou shalt offer at even, and shalt do thereto according to the meat offering of the morning, and according to the drink offering thereof, for a sweet savour, an offering made by fire unto the LORD.”

These items were all a part of the daily sacrifice, and we know that the daily sacrifice will be reinstituted during the brief reign of the Antichrist.

Daniel 12:11

“And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.”

This is what “these things” (Revelation 18:12-13) are all about.

Of course, this same “great city” is guilty of the blood of the prophets, and we all know what “great city” that is, don’t we?

Revelation 18:20

“Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.”

Revelation 18:24

“And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.”

Matthew 23:29-37

“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!”

“Babylon the great” is Jerusalem.

Period.

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

Revelation 22:18-19

"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

A very solemn warning from the Lord Jesus Christ for any who foolishly parrot the heresies that they have been taught while misrepresenting the actual prophecies of this book. My advice to several people on this thread is for you to quickly and sincerely repent before the Lord.

Or you can continue in your own pride and rebellion.

The choice is yours.

Whatever you decide to do, Jerusalem is "Babylon the Great," and nothing that you could ever say is going to alter this reality.

 

[jb]

That interpretation contradicts the Bible prophecies. I pointed out just one contradiction but there are also others. Don't take it personally. People are rejecting that interpretation, not you.


🦜

I certainly don't take it personally...

What boggles my mind, is that according to your interpretation the Lord Jesus wasn't crucified in Jerusalem, as Rev 11v8 very clearly demonstrates!

But then, you (et al) know better than the Lord Jesus! lol

And you certainly fulfil Rev 22v18,19....

 

[harpo]

Revelation 22:18-19

"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

A very solemn warning from the Lord Jesus Christ for any who foolishly parrot the heresies that they have been taught while misrepresenting the actual prophecies of this book. My advice to several people on this thread is for you to quickly and sincerely repent before the Lord.

Or you can continue in your own pride and rebellion.

The choice is yours.

Whatever you decide to do, Jerusalem is "Babylon the Great," and nothing that you could ever say is going to alter this reality.

Nobody has to repent of anything other than those accusing their own brothers and sisters.

I've been asking for decades and not one person has been able to do it.

Where is Rome/Catholicism specifically mentioned in end-time prophecy? None of you can quote one because ONE does not exist! The only place Rome is mentioned is in the book of Acts, Romans, and 2Timothy and not one of them apply to prophecy.

Here is a list of every nation mentioned in bible prophecy. Do you see Rome anywhere?

Islam and the Final Beast (answering-islam.org)

Summary of nations addressed in end-times:
Psalm 83 - includes all, Syria and Iraq "Assyria", Jordan "Edom, Moab, Ammon", Arabia "Ishmaelites, Hagarites", Lebanon "People of Tyre" since Tyre was destroyed (Ezekiel 26). This was partly fulfilled in the Arab Israeli wars since these armies are a "confederacy" (v. 5), "consult together with one voice" (v. 3). All these are Muslim.
Ezekiel 30 - the nations of North Africa, including Egypt and Sudan in the time of the "Day of the Lord" - a clear reference to the end time destruction of Islamic nations.
Amos 1 - Syria (vs. 1-5), Gaza (v. 6), Lebanon (v. 9), Jordan "Teman" (v. 11), Iraq "Bozrah", Amman Jordan "Rabbah" (v. 14), "Gaza" (v. 6).
Amos 2 - Jordan "Moab"
Joel 3 - This is Armageddon (v. 2) which includes Egypt and Jordan (v. 19), Lebanon (v. 4). Why does Armageddon have Muslim nations by name?
Jeremiah 6 - Jeremiah speaks of Sheba (probably the area of modern Yemen.
Jeremiah 9 - Egypt, Edom, and Ammon
Jeremiah 25 - Moab
Jeremiah 48 - Moab and others.
Jeremiah 49-51 - The destruction of Babylonia, today's Arab world - Jordan, Syria "Damascus", Iraq "Bozrah", Saudi Arabia "Kedar", this includes past as well as a future outlook in end-times. Iran "Elam" (49 v. 37).
Obadiah 1 - "For the day of the LORD [is] near upon all the heathen" "Esau" "Edom" "Teman" - Jordan and the Arabs.
Ezekiel 25 - Jordan "Moab", Saudi Arabia "Teman, Dedan (v. 13)".
Ezekiel 27 - Lebanon "Tyre, Zidon, Gebal" (v. 9), Iran "Persia" and he adds Libya "Lud", and Phut (North Africa). This takes in middle Asia and North Africa (chapter 27:10,21), just as Ezekiel predicted in chapter 38.
Ezekiel 30 - The fall of the nations of North Africa, including Egypt, in the time of the "Day of the Lord" - a clear reference to the end time.
Ezekiel 35:12-15 (Edom, Jordan)
Daniel 11 - Egypt (verse 40)
Habbakuk 3 - "Teman" and "Paran" "Midian" are Saudi Arabia (center of Islam), and "Cushan" is Sudan (Cush). "God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of his praise." This is definitely Messianic pertaining to the second coming.
3:3-7, 12-16 ["He beheld, and drove asunder the nations [Midian]; and the everlasting hills [nations] did bow" (v. 6), "Thou didst thresh the heathen in anger" (v. 12)
Isaiah 11:14 - Jordan "Edom, Moab"
Isaiah 13 - "Behold, the day of the LORD cometh" (v. 9), For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light" (v. 10), is end-times and includes Babylon (Iraq, Arabia, all Muslim).
Isaiah 14:24-27 - ("I will break the Assyrian [Iraq] in My land, and tread him underfoot"). Here Satan (Lucifer) is addressed as a man "They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, [and] consider thee, [saying, Is] this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms" (Isaiah 14:16)
Isaiah 14:28-32 - (Philistia, Gaza) Muslim
Isaiah 15-16 - (Moab/Jordan) Muslim
Isaiah 17 - (Damascus, Syria) Muslim
Isaiah 18 - (Punishment of Sudan), 18:6 matches the birds feeding on the dead in Ezekiel 38/39 after the Sudanese (Cush Ezekiel 38:5).
Isaiah 19 - "Egypt will fear Judah" (v17), then Egypt will be healed.
Isaiah 21 - against Arabia (Kedar, Tema, and Dumah) The curses on Arabia "burden of the desert of the sea" (v. 1). Dumah is in Saudi Arabia near Yathrib in verse 11, today called "Dumat el-Jandal", also Kedar in verse 17. These prophecies find both historical and future fulfillment as well. "The glory of Kedar shall fail" (11-17). What other then Mecca and Islam could the "glory of Kedar" be?
Isaiah 31 - "shall the LORD of hosts come down to fight for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof" is the end when Messiah fights "The Assyrian", "The Egyptians".
Isaiah 34:2-8 - (Edom, Jordan) note "it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompenses for the controversy of Zion" (v. 8).
Isaiah 63:1-6 - ("Who is this who comes from Edom (Jordan), with dyed [blood-stained] garments from Bozrah (Iraq)." This is definitely second coming of Messiah and these nations are Muslim.
Zechariah 9:1,2 - (Syria, Lebanon) Muslim, Lebanon is the heart of Hezbullah.
Zechariah 9:5 - (Gaza) Gaza is a Muslim city and the heart of Hammas.
Zechariah 10 - Syria, Iraq and Egypt's armies destroyed in Lebanon (v. 10)
Zechariah 12:2 - "I will make Jerusalem and Judah like an intoxicating drink to all the nearby nations that send their armies to besiege Jerusalem". All the nations "round about" (RSV) or "near by nations" (NTL) "peoples around" (NASB), "surrounding peoples" (NKJV) Israel are all Muslim, regardless of which translation of the text one uses. Some say that the entire world's nations are around Israel for the use of the term "round about" only pertains to the fact that they surround the borders. Yet the verse is clearer when we see the usage in the continuation of the verse "that send their armies to besiege Jerusalem". So this understanding is flawed since it doesn't make sense that "surrounding armies" send "armies" to surround Jerusalem. The correct rendering of the verse then must be that these nations are nearby (round about) and send there armies to lay siege on Jerusalem. The Old Testament references to the nations "round about" are widespread, with over 50 references to these entities between Deuteronomy 6:14 and Zechariah 14:4. In passages where these are identified by name (e.g., Psalm 83), they are Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Jordan, the "Palestinians" of Gaza, the Bedouin PLO within Israel, Jordan (Moab/Edom/Ammon[the ancient name which Amman the capital of Jordan is derived from]) and Saudi Arabia.

Micah 5:1-6 - agrees with Isaiah 14 (Satan, Anti-Christ) in which the destruction of "the Assyrian" upon Israel's mountains is foretold, and that "(Israel) shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword" (v. 6).
The whole of Scripture regarding end-times with minor and major prophets speak on none else than the Islamic world.

Islam and the Final Beast (answering-islam.org)

 

[harpo]

The Greatest Impediment Christians have obtaining Truth is when they THINK they already have it.

Jerusalem is Babylon the Great - I agree. It's what turns her into a harlot that's the big question.

 

[Inquisitor]

Nobody has to repent of anything other than those accusing their own brothers and sisters.

I've been asking for decades and not one person has been able to do it.

Where is Rome/Catholicism specifically mentioned in end-time prophecy? None of you can quote one because ONE does not exist! The only place Rome is mentioned is in the book of Acts, Romans, and 2Timothy and not one of them apply to prophecy.

Here is a list of every nation mentioned in bible prophecy. Do you see Rome anywhere?

Islam and the Final Beast (answering-islam.org)

Revelation 17:9
Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills upon which the woman sits.

You cannot deny that Rome was founded upon seven hills.

Jerusalem does not sit upon seven hills.

In John's era, Rome was the city which controlled the world.

Rome executed Jesus.

Rome imprisoned John on the island of Patmos.

Rome sacked Jerusalem and made the temple mount desolate.

Every country had to pay the tax to Rome.

Jerusalem had no power over other kingdoms, Rome held absolute power over every kingdom.

The evidence in Revelation is pointing directly at Rome.

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

Revelation 17:9
Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills upon which the woman sits.

Which is preceded by this:

Revelation 17:7

"And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns."

There are two separate entities being described here:

1. The woman.
2. The beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and ten horns.

In other words, the seven heads or seven hills are part of the beast, and not of the woman.

You are conflating the two.

The woman is Jerusalem, and the beast is Rome or, more specifically, Papal Rome.

 

[Cameron143]

Which is preceded by this:

Revelation 17:7

"And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns."

There are two separate entities being described here:

1. The woman.
2. The beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and ten horns.

In other words, the seven heads or seven hills are part of the beast, and not of the woman.

You are conflating the two.

The woman is Jerusalem, and the beast is Rome or, more specifically, Papal Rome.

A good distinction. But the Roman Empire has no connection to Israel today. So when is it talking about?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

A good distinction. But the Roman Empire has no connection to Israel today. So when is it talking about?

If you look closely there is a seven headed beast ,

“And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen,

and one is,

and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.( that’s seven heads )


And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of Lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:9-14, 16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Then After there is a single beast who has ten other kings that rule with him who give him thier power

This is “eighth king “ with ten horns about the end after the thousand years of perdition for the beast

“And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭11:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:7-8‬ ‭

there are two seperate beasts that appear at two seperate times one has seven heads began with daniels vision of Babylon. Then Persia , Greece leading to Romes dominion on johns day just before Nero took the throne for his short rule and slaughter of the early church

then There’s another beast that is one of the seven who is bound for one rouse d years and comes up out of the abyss and then rules the whole earth with a deception having the power of ten kingdoms that serve him theee of which he will “ uproot “ when he rises to power according to daniels vision explained by the angel

 

[Cameron143]

If you look closely there is a seven headed beast ,

“And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen,

and one is,

and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.( that’s seven heads )


And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of Lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:9-14, 16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Then After there is a single beast who has ten other kings that rule with him who give him thier power

This is “eighth king “ with ten horns about the end after the thousand years of perdition for the beast

“And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭11:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:7-8‬ ‭

there are two seperate beasts that appear at two seperate times one has seven heads began with daniels vision of Babylon. Then Persia , Greece leading to Romes dominion on johns day just before Nero took the throne for his short rule and slaughter of the early church

then There’s another beast that is one of the seven who is bound for one rouse d years and comes up out of the abyss and then rules the whole earth with a deception having the power of ten kingdoms that serve him theee of which he will “ uproot “ when he rises to power according to daniels vision explained by the angel

Can you approximate the times and do you have a general outline for the book of Revelation?

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

A good distinction. But the Roman Empire has no connection to Israel today. So when is it talking about?

Actually, it has tremendous connections to Israel today.

I do not have time to document it right now (and there is plenty to document), but I will try to begin doing so sometime over the next few days.

I have a lot going on right now, and it is directly related to that prayer thread that I started a while back, so I am very strapped for time at the moment.

 

[Cameron143]

Actually, it has tremendous connections to Israel today.

I do not have time to document it right now (and there is plenty to document), but I will try to begin doing so sometime over the next few days.

I have a lot going on right now, and it is directly related to that prayer thread that I started a while back, so I am very strapped for time at the moment.

Appreciate it. Also, do you have a general outline for the book of Revelation?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Can you approximate the times and do you have a general outline for the book of Revelation?

i can’t even understand the question completely lol

what do you mean by approximate the times ?