The End, the A.C., Revelation and the rest of it.

Keras · Oct 16, 2020

No actual scripture provided. I assume you are referring to 1 Thess 4:17?
That verse says those who remain, [alive] will be caught up to be with Jesus. Initially in the clouds, then to Jerusalem.
Heaven is not mentioned as the destination, only as the place Jesus came from.

Even the "high priest" of the 'rapture theory', Dr John Walvoord, said: there is no verse in the Bible that says we will be raptured to heaven.

Absolutely said:

I do not espouse a 'rapture to heaven' at any time. Eventually God and therefore heaven; comes to the earth. Revelation 21:1-7

Absolutely said:

There is NO mention of heaven in Revelation 19:5-8. You have added that, bad you!

Where is the faithful people of God during the GT? Revelation 12:14 tells us: On earth, in a place of safety, from where they will be gathered when Jesus Returns, Matthew 24:30-31

JonathanBeWell · Oct 17, 2021

Grace... Omega.

https://www.repentancerevival.com/s...ing-thursday-28th-sunday-31st-of-october-2021

montana123 · Oct 17, 2021

JonathanBeWell said:

Pro 30:11 There is a generation that curseth their father, and doth not bless their mother.
Pro 30:12 There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness.
Pro 30:13 There is a generation, O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.
Pro 30:14 There is a generation, whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men.

The last generation which the reason they can devour the poor from off the earth is because of technology because it allows them to reach out farther and to more people to heap more to themselves and we see today that millions of dollars and billions of dollars is not enough for them.

The children will not obey their parents and since the 1960's counterculture movement children started disobeying their parents.

Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Dan 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

This also speaks of the age of technology which is now.

Daniel did not understand what was told him for the book was sealed until the time of the end which means they will not understand it until then.

Many shall run to and fro, advanced travel, and knowledge shall be increased, advanced technology, which allows the saints to be able to see, hear, and know what the world is doing and how it is possible for the nations to come together which will result in the beast kingdom.

Nah 2:3 The shield of his mighty men is made red, the valiant men are in scarlet: the chariots shall be with flaming torches in the day of his preparation, and the fir trees shall be terribly shaken.
Nah 2:4 The chariots shall rage in the streets, they shall justle one against another in the broad ways: they shall seem like torches, they shall run like the lightnings.

There will be automobiles in the day of God's preparation to end sin on earth.

Isa 31:4 For thus hath the LORD spoken unto me, Like as the lion and the young lion roaring on his prey, when a multitude of shepherds is called forth against him, he will not be afraid of their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them: so shall the LORD of hosts come down to fight for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof.
Isa 31:5 As birds flying, so will the LORD of hosts defend Jerusalem; defending also he will deliver it; and passing over he will preserve it.

God will restore the kingdom on earth to Israel in the end time which Israeli fighter pilots paved the way to win the 6 day war in 1967.

1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Many people want a one world government so it is close to Jesus coming back.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

The new age movement that will come out at the latter times which is the last days of the last days which interprets the Bible according to the occult and evolution which is why the world rebels against God.

We are in the last days the last generation.

Absolutely · Oct 17, 2021

Keras said:

Hard to believe with all the references and setting being heaven you missed it.

What part of your doctrine fails with this simple bible truth???

I am so glad i do not need to change Gods word.

19 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying,

4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Absolutely · Oct 17, 2021

Keras said:

nope
Keep reading

In rev 14 the jews are gathered.

There are no believers left.

It says power was given the antichrist to overcome the saints.
Then it says ALL TAKE THE MARK.

So add it up
And do note that angels are now preaching the gospel in rev 14.

So nope
.
.....your guessing game is debunked

Absolutely · Oct 17, 2021

""""I do not espouse a 'rapture to heaven' at any time. Eventually God and therefore heaven; comes to the earth. Revelation 21:1-7"""

Flat out comical.

We will agree to disagree.

Amazing you can so easily see a gathering in 1 thes 4 and rev 14, mat 24, and mat 25.

...but doctrine is ruling your perception.

Oh...wait....NOW WE SEE WHY YOU NEEED THE SETTING CHANGED IN REV 19!!!!!!!!

See how one little reframe of Gods word puts a person in a huge trap?????

But hey....just ignore and reframe verses like you are doing.

Your colleages will high five you.

But it will be costly...changing revelation

cv5 · Oct 17, 2021

montana123 said:

Pro 30:11 There is a generation that curseth their father, and doth not bless their mother.
Pro 30:12 There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness.
Pro 30:13 There is a generation, O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.
Pro 30:14 There is a generation, whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men.

The last generation which the reason they can devour the poor from off the earth is because of technology because it allows them to reach out farther and to more people to heap more to themselves and we see today that millions of dollars and billions of dollars is not enough for them.

The children will not obey their parents and since the 1960's counterculture movement children started disobeying their parents.

Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Dan 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

This also speaks of the age of technology which is now.

Daniel did not understand what was told him for the book was sealed until the time of the end which means they will not understand it until then.

Many shall run to and fro, advanced travel, and knowledge shall be increased, advanced technology, which allows the saints to be able to see, hear, and know what the world is doing and how it is possible for the nations to come together which will result in the beast kingdom.

Nah 2:3 The shield of his mighty men is made red, the valiant men are in scarlet: the chariots shall be with flaming torches in the day of his preparation, and the fir trees shall be terribly shaken.
Nah 2:4 The chariots shall rage in the streets, they shall justle one against another in the broad ways: they shall seem like torches, they shall run like the lightnings.

There will be automobiles in the day of God's preparation to end sin on earth.

Isa 31:4 For thus hath the LORD spoken unto me, Like as the lion and the young lion roaring on his prey, when a multitude of shepherds is called forth against him, he will not be afraid of their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them: so shall the LORD of hosts come down to fight for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof.
Isa 31:5 As birds flying, so will the LORD of hosts defend Jerusalem; defending also he will deliver it; and passing over he will preserve it.

God will restore the kingdom on earth to Israel in the end time which Israeli fighter pilots paved the way to win the 6 day war in 1967.

1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Many people want a one world government so it is close to Jesus coming back.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

The new age movement that will come out at the latter times which is the last days of the last days which interprets the Bible according to the occult and evolution which is why the world rebels against God.

We are in the last days the last generation.

Totally agree.....we are in (or very close to) the last generation. The rollout of digital slave money will be the crucial move the beast powers make to enslave mankind, and bring them to their knees.

pottersclay · Oct 17, 2021

Many try to interpret the scriptures of revelation but fail to study cause and effect.
God has a blueprint for judgement which can be found in the old testament dealing with the nation of Israel.
The father's heart is that none shall parish but all repent.
Many warnings are first given by God before actual judgement is pronounced.
The patients of God is tested. The love of the father is tested.
In the days of noah what causes the continuous evil? Jesus points to this event for it is the first world wide judgement in my opinion. Even then God gave a span of time for repentance.
One cannot argue that judgement began after noah was shut in to the place of safety which the Lord instructed him to build. Read the scriptures very carefully for it was the Lord that shut him in.
Paul says that the thing that restrains will be removed. Could this be the church?....Holy Spirit?
Many believe the rapture is a man made doctrine and not found in scripture. But give no answer to what has been removed?
Darkness is not the opposite of light....but the lack of it.
Jesus says that we are the light of the world...to shine brightly and to not hid.
In genesis God commanded light into the darkness before the creation of the sun.
Also we see in genesis that Elohim ( which is plural not singular) created what is created.
Which gives the answer to the us in...let us make man in our image.
If you take the rapture event out of the book of revelation you have many loose ends throughout scripture its self beginning with the two end time descriptions jesus gave to his disciples.
Also paul's letter to Thessalonians to comfort them. Just to name a few.
Harpazo is found 13 times in the new testament I believe.

cv5 · Oct 17, 2021

Keras said:

The 24 Elders are already in heaven by Rev ch 4. Undoubtedly these hae been clearly identified as the Church by their attributes. They remain in heaven during the tribulation period as worshipers commenters and observers. They come with Jesus at His earthly manifestation where every eye will see Him.

Just as Jesus only showed Himself to Christian believers for 40 days after the resurrection, likewise he comes the first time for the Bride (only believers) to take them to His Father's house. Because the Church is not appointed to wrath. This fulfills 2Thessalonians 2, the man of sin can only be revealed after the departure of the Church. The rapture event kicks off the 70th week of Daniel. The rapture event is demanded by the pattern of the Jewish wedding ceremony (a pattern that Jesus Himself set forth) it is inevitable.

2 Thes 1:10
When He shall come to be glorified in (1) His saints (the Bride that accompanies Jesus when he comes to the earth) and (2) to be admired in all them who
believe (believers who have survived the tribulation)***(because of our testimony among you was believed)*** in THAT DAY (the DOTL).

What exactly is going on here? What we're dealing with is tribulation saints and Israelites on the earth who came to believe as a result of the event of the rapture itself! Which is perfectly understandable.....

cv5 · Oct 17, 2021

pottersclay said:

Correct. The pre-trib premillennial position ties up all loose ends left dangling by the many other errant eschatological views. It is a succinct inerrant complete flawless beautiful harmonious synchronous model which is biblically accurate. It follows the Jewish wedding ritual pattern beautifully. All statements of Jesus are satisfied. All old testament prophecies and covenants are completely fulfilled. God's nature and promises remain intact and God gets the maximum glory due His Name.

Some heretical end time theories are more hackneyed than others. Amillennialism tosses two thirds of the Bible into the trash can and makes God out to be an untrustworthy liar. A God who kicks Israel to the curb. It doesn't get any more heretical than that.....

pottersclay · Oct 17, 2021

cv5 said:

The 24 Elders are already in heaven by Rev ch 4. Undoubtedly these hae been clearly identified as the Church by their attributes. They remain in heaven during the tribulation period as worshipers commenters and observers. They come with Jesus at His earthly manifestation where every eye will see Him.

Just as Jesus only showed Himself to Christian believers for 40 days after the resurrection, likewise he comes the first time for the Bride (only believers) to take them to His Father's house. Because the Church is not appointed to wrath. This fulfills 2Thessalonians 2, the man of sin can only be revealed after the departure of the Church. The rapture event kicks off the 70th week of Daniel. The rapture event is demanded by the pattern of the Jewish wedding ceremony (a pattern that Jesus Himself set forth) it is inevitable.

2 Thes 1:10
When He shall come to be glorified in (1) His saints (the Bride that accompanies Jesus when he comes to the earth) and (2) to be admired in all them who
believe (believers who have survived the tribulation)***(because of our testimony among you was believed)*** in THAT DAY (the DOTL).

What exactly is going on here? What we're dealing with is tribulation saints and Israelites on the earth who came to believe as a result of the event of the rapture itself! Which is perfectly understandable.....

My studies have shown me that the 24 elders are ...12 patriarchs of the old...12 patriarchs of the new.
Do I stand in error of this understanding?

cv5 · Oct 17, 2021

pottersclay said:

Yes I've heard that 12+12 before. I don't see it that way, as they are clearly identified as representative of the Church. Compare Rev 1:6 with Rev 5:10......where the Elders describe themselves very clearly. The Elders are also bequeathed (Rev 4:4) with the white raiment, crowns and thrones earlier promised by Jesus in Rev 3:5, 2:10, 3:21.

A group of 24 as denotative "representative heads" is an Old Testament president.....so all of this fits beautifully with 24 Elders in fact being the Church.

IMO......the 12+12 theory is just a shot in the dark as the Church and Israel are never mixed together as one group. On the contrary they are extraordinarily differentiated and unique.

GRACE_ambassador · Oct 18, 2021

JonathanBeWell said:

Precious friend, yes, it is good "to read Revelation," as it is Part Of The Bible, BUT:
"the study and soak" part may be not so good, as we have PLENTY of theologians and prophecy experts who Totally Disagree with one another as to "interpretations," Thus:

IMHO, I believe it would behoove us "simpletons" to see response to @Just_Jo below...

Just_Jo said:

Precious friend, Just_Jo, Very Well Said. I believe This Is God's Simple Will for us,
In The Body Of CHRIST, Today, Under GRACE. I believe Most Of The Reigning
Confusion today, is because of focusing Way TOO Much on prophesy, Instead
of finding out God's Specific Will FOR us, Today, According To HIS
"Revelation Of The MYSTERY" (Romans - Philemon).

Thus, us "simpletons" can leave the prophecy experts to their "battle of
interpretations" of "The future Of JACOB's TROUBLE," And we can focus
on God's GRACE Program For Today, "Approved Unto God!!" Amen?:

God's Approval/TWO Different Gospels
Distinctions In God's Two Different Programs: Prophecy vs Mystery!

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
God's Simple Will!

rayzor · Oct 18, 2021

Corban said:

On the contrary, Israel are only called the firstfruits as a complete nation in the wilderness (Jer.2:3). ALL Israel is meant - not a remnant of 144,000 and excluding Dan.

Rather, Christians are - 1st Cor.16:15 & Jas.1.18. Added go this, the events before us occur at the end of the age, not in the wilderness of Sinai. The harvest of the end of the age is for "Wheat" - which are Christians (Matt.13:39, Jn.12:24). Israel - the Vine, produced NO fruit (Matt.21).

Corban you forgot Ephraim u see there's 14 tribes.Ephraim and Dan not part of the plan.

GRACE_ambassador · Oct 18, 2021

montana123 said:

Precious friend, you do realize that ALL of the prophecy experts, for centuries
now, have 100% FAILED Miserably in their predictions/guesses/calculations.
Wouldn't bode well on our Judgment Day, Correct?

Keras said:

Precious friend, The Body Of CHRIST Has "Heaven" as its position And
Hope All over Romans - Philemon! See #'s 5 - 7b Under The MYSTERY, below:

Great GRACE {MYSTERY} Departure @ the 2nd coming {prophecy}?

See you there?

Gideon300 · Oct 18, 2021

JonathanBeWell said:

Read, study and soak in the Book of Revelation; be blessed. I would not say I believe with an "if," rather know with proof that this is the last generation to be confronted with the A.C., alive and about to assume power in these very final days.

If people reply here and now, this thread will get interesting. I for one would like to see that happen and fielded by people who believe they know the truth.

Education is moot. Rely not on your own understanding; I do not and do well. Pray in Jesus Christ's holy, sovereign, all powerful name for His Holy Spirit's discernment and revelation. I do daily and do well; thus know what the Lord would have me and others know. We all slip and fall. The key is to get back up and keep marching on, Christian soldier.

You will find good people here, yes. I am sorry to inform you of this, yet you will also find evil people here. Fear not. Fear God. They may claim they do. We must. The enemy must be *very* careful. We only need be careful. Trust in the Lord, not Man, man or me. Perhaps *they* think I have said too much yet I believe God wills it.

Love,

16JBW20

Ezekiel 12:25-28 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
25 For I am the Lord: I will speak, and the word that I shall speak shall come to pass; it shall be no more prolonged: for in your days, O rebellious house, will I say the word, and will perform it, saith the Lord God.
26 Again the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 27 Son of man, behold, they of the house of Israel say, The vision that he seeth is for many days to come, and he prophesieth of the times that are far off. 28 Therefore say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; There shall none of my words be prolonged any more, but the word which I have spoken shall be done, saith the Lord God.

Revelation 2:22 (AKJV)
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 (AKJV)
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Revelation 13 (AKJV)
13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 and deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Luke 12:51-56 (AKJV)
51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 for from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
54 And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is. 55 And when ye see the south wind blow, ye say, There will be heat; and it cometh to pass. 56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?

Revelation 22:18-21 (AKJV)
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly.
Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

[Put on the full armour of God, brothers and sisters, Christ be with you.] View attachment 218351

And so Christians have been saying for 2,000 years.

Absolutely · Oct 19, 2021

Gideon300 said:

The advent of obama was an eyeopener.
We are close my friend

ewq1938 · Oct 19, 2021

cv5 said:

The post-trib premillennial position ties up all loose ends left dangling by the many other errant eschatological views. Pre-trib is a nonsuccinct, errant, incomplete, flawed, grosteque, dis-harmonious, non-synchronous model which is not biblically accurate.

Sipsey · Oct 19, 2021

ewq1938 said:

Tell us how you really feel.

Absolutely · Oct 21, 2021

ewq1938 said:

Wow.....i guess i need to follow that template you push.

Show me a verse.

The End, the A.C., Revelation and the rest of it.

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