The End of a Nation

[calibob]

Worship, "give praise, honor and respect to... Elevate, give reverence too." NIV, Zondervan (c) 1973

Worship, "ardent devotion, to pray to or show reverence or respect too." A (4th grade) Student's Dictionary and Gazetteer (c) 2012 Dictionary Project Inc.

@Endoscopy get a dictionary, a bible and some glasses.

 

[dcontroversal]

I might of been a judaizer, but you know one thing jews DONT do is worship statues / saints / Mary.

Thats one thing. You can deceive a jew many-a-ways, but worshiping a statue is NOT one of them. That lesson has been learned

Thank God for calibob getting saved out of that!

AMEN.......2 captivities by Assyria and Babylon fixed that rigmarole.....

 

[dcontroversal]

I had several on ignore for a long while, took some off. Bro, it wasn't even hours until I had to go ahead and do the same thing -- still offering their disparaging remarks, hate, lies, malignancy. It is almost unbelievable. I put this dude back on ignore. Hope you all are having a wonderful day of thanks my brother!

AMEN migo.........I cut wood all day AHHAH and threw rocks and limbs out of a cleared area......about 4 acres....

 

[Endoscopy]

Interesting how you change the words. Since the Roman Catholic church is the likeliest author of the creed (at the Council of Milan), when they say the holy Catholic church, they mean Roman Catholic. To deny that truth is to show a great deal of ignorance in how the Roman Catholic church had long viewed herself as the only means to salvation. If Protestants changed Catholic to catholic to be a closer representation of truth, it does not alter the fact that what it meant originally was something quite different.

Here is the text as sold on a card by Catholic Online:
Notice how Catholic is capitalized by Catholics...

I believe in God,
the Father Almighty,
Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died and was buried;
He descended into hell;
on the third day He rose again from the dead;
He ascended into heaven,
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
from there He will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Holy Catholic Church,
the communion of Saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.

Amen.

The common reading of that version is the holy catholic church. Which is why the alternative is universal church. You seem to be hung up on forcing it to be Holy Catholic Church. Thus giving you an excuse to condemn it. Sorry Charley, (Sunkist Add) you are absolutely wrong.

 

[Lillywolf]

First it is not Creedal worship. You have not given any Biblical reason to reject what they say. Do you know what they say? Here is the Apostles Creed. Refute it please. Keep in mind the purpose of the creed is to define what a Christian must believe.

According to the men that authored the creed. Remember that. Jesus however told us what we must believe in order to be saved.

Apostles Creed

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy universal Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

Maybe the issue begins with those who believe in creeds not actually knowing what a creed imparts as faith commitment to it itself.
1. An understanding of creeds. A creed is an authoritative statement of the principal affirmations of the Christian faith. It is generally brief and concise, free of definition, proof, or explanation. ....

Colossians 2
8 "See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ."
2 John 1:9
Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
2 Peter 2:1-3
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
The Apostles' Creed in Modern English
(SIC)"....Some evangelical Christians reject the creed--specifically its recitation, not for its content--simply because it is not found in the Bible. "

I note you didn't use the version of the Apostles Creed that has the adherent agree Jesus descended into Hell after giving up the ghost on the cross. (John 19:30)
That could be because you didn't use the traditional Apostles creed, completed at around 700 A.D., was originated in approximately 140 AD. and not at all authored by the Apostles of Christ.
It reads as follows:

The Apostles' Creed in Modern English
(From the Book of Common Prayer)
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic* Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting.

Amen.


This is the point about Creedal faith. One believes, as you demonstrated, in the authority of the creed first. And again as you demonstrate in your pasted version, unlike God's true word, the creed of affirmation and unity in belief changes. But Jesus' truth remains eternal. Jesus' creed stands forever.
Acts 2:38-41,47

And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him." And he testified with many other words and exhorted them, saying, "Save yourselves from this crooked generation." So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added to their number that day about three thousand souls… …praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.​

 

[dcontroversal]

Worship, "give praise, honor and respect to... Elevate, give reverence too." NIV, Zondervan (c) 1973

Worship, "ardent devotion, to pray to or show reverence or respect too." A (4th grade) Student's Dictionary and Gazetteer (c) 2012 Dictionary Project Inc.

@Endoscopy get a dictionary, a bible and some glasses.

HAHAHHAHA good luck with that.....get ready for a list of his CREED"entials" .......................full emphasis upon the CREED..........

 

[Endoscopy]

Since the RCC was was deemed the official religion of the UNHOLY Roman Empire and the Pope was elevated to THE ONLY authority on spiritual matters, promoted to demigod. Greed, ambition, ego and sexual perversion have ridden roughshod over people who can barely understand the gifts that grace has bestowed upon them.

I only use the Vatican as the most glaring example but like any thing else it has been copied and tweaked a little so the names could be changed. Take away the saving grace and faith and replace them with a new set of rules that did not in context come from Jesus and what did we get? A man made religion that worships traditions, rules and ceremonies. False doctrines and dogmas. And people seeking to please or fit in with some established order of things. Our righteousness is pure dung.

I can't even blame the Devil because he can only appeal the inherent ego, greed, narcissism, lusts and paranoia that we already have. We've had them a since before he tempted Adam and Eve. All religious fanatics need to wake up. The law is a curse and religion won't save you. Belief in Jesus is freedom from religion. @Lillywolf you know where the passage is, please share it again. The church of 2019 AD is not the same as the upper room on the Pentecost. Stop worshiping it!

There's a seemingly infinite number of ways into the lake of fire. Only 1 way to the kingdom of God. I know I'm not preaching to the illiterate here if you don't have a Bible and can't buy or find one and live in a nation where they are allowed, I'm fairly confident I can find you one. And if your vision impaired Charlton Hesston used to dictate the NIV on cassettes. I'm sure something like that is still available. And before you critics accuse me of trying to start an apostacy I'm not advocating to stop gathering in worship in worship, praise and sharing. Let your light shine but only worship God. View attachment 190923

Since the RCC was was deemed the official religion of the UNHOLY Roman Empire and the Pope was elevated to THE ONLY authority on spiritual matters, promoted to demigod. Greed, ambition, ego and sexual perversion have ridden roughshod over people who can barely understand the gifts that grace has bestowed upon them.

I only use the Vatican as the most glaring example but like any thing else it has been copied and tweaked a little so the names could be changed. Take away the saving grace and faith and replace them with a new set of rules that did not in context come from Jesus and what did we get? A man made religion that worships traditions, rules and ceremonies. False doctrines and dogmas. And people seeking to please or fit in with some established order of things. Our righteousness is pure dung.

I can't even blame the Devil because he can only appeal the inherent ego, greed, narcissism, lusts and paranoia that we already have. We've had them a since before he tempted Adam and Eve. All religious fanatics need to wake up. The law is a curse and religion won't save you. Belief in Jesus is freedom from religion. @Lillywolf you know where the passage is, please share it again. The church of 2019 AD is not the same as the upper room on the Pentecost. Stop worshiping it!

There's a seemingly infinite number of ways into the lake of fire. Only 1 way to the kingdom of God. I know I'm not preaching to the illiterate here if you don't have a Bible and can't buy or find one and live in a nation where they are allowed, I'm fairly confident I can find you one. And if your vision impaired Charlton Hesston used to dictate the NIV on cassettes. I'm sure something like that is still available. And before you critics accuse me of trying to start an apostacy I'm not advocating to stop gathering in worship in worship, praise and sharing. Let your light shine but only worship God. View attachment 190923

You just love to rewrite history. When Emperor Constantine took Christianity from being persecuted to allowed to exist and practice their faith publicly there was no such thing as thr RCC!! There at that time just Christians. The first division in Christians was the great schism in 800. That created the Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Church. Up until that time it was the holy catholic (universal) church, small c. After that Catholic was capitalized since it was then part of the name.

You should look things up before putting you foot in your mouth so often.

https://www.dummies.com/religion/ch...man-catholics-and-eastern-orthodox-catholics/

 

[Endoscopy]

According to the men that authored the creed. Remember that. Jesus however told us what we must believe in order to be saved.

Maybe the issue begins with those who believe in creeds not actually knowing what a creed imparts as faith commitment to it itself.
1. An understanding of creeds. A creed is an authoritative statement of the principal affirmations of the Christian faith. It is generally brief and concise, free of definition, proof, or explanation. ....
H
Colossians 2
8 "See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ."
2 John 1:9
Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
2 Peter 2:1-3
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
The Apostles' Creed in Modern English
(SIC)"....Some evangelical Christians reject the creed--specifically its recitation, not for its content--simply because it is not found in the Bible. "

I note you didn't use the version of the Apostles Creed that has the adherent agree Jesus descended into Hell after giving up the ghost on the cross. (John 19:30)
That could be because you didn't use the traditional Apostles creed, completed at around 700 A.D., was originated in approximately 140 AD. and not at all authored by the Apostles of Christ.
It reads as follows:

The Apostles' Creed in Modern English
(From the Book of Common Prayer)I
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic* Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting.

Amen.


This is the point about Creedal faith. One believes, as you demonstrated, in the authority of the creed first. And again as you demonstrate in your pasted version, unlike God's true word, the creed of affirmation and unity in belief changes. But Jesus' truth remains eternal. Jesus' creed stands forever.
Acts 2:38-41,47

And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him." And he testified with many other words and exhorted them, saying, "Save yourselves from this crooked generation." So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added to their number that day about three thousand souls… …praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.​

ROFL
You ignore that after 90AD we had the full Bible. The problem was it was very expensive and rare since it was copied by hand. So tell me oh wise one how did Christianity spread? What did they use. Could it have been something like our current denominations and churches statement defining what they believe. Oops they are created by the elders and and ministers of them. They should therefore be thrown out according to you!! Since back then Bibles were very scarce they had to have an easily memorized statement about what a Christian must believe along with memorized verses. Oops! That was the creeds plus memorized verses. I keep asking for you detractors to define any error in them. I posted the Apostles Creed and some fool had to erroneously capitalize holy catholic church when at at that time it was not the name of the church. Since catholic (small c) means universal it was not the name of the church but a definition of the church.

You detractors erroneously state it takes precedent over the Bible. I guess therefore any written items outside the Bible should be ignored as well. Can't reject the creeds and then allow all of those books in Bible book stores to be allowed to exist. In essence any attack on the creeds is also an attack on anything relating to the Bible to be used in the same category. They must all be trying to elevate themselves above the Bible. You just went down the slippery slope with your very incorrect assertion the creeds are above the Bible when in actuality they are like Sunday School pamphlets, churches doctrinal statements and all of the books created about the Bible helping people to understand issues in the scripture.

The descent into hell was a late addition to the creed. This is astricked in many copies that include that phrase stating early versions don't have it.

 

[Endoscopy]

According to the men that authored the creed. Remember that. Jesus however told us what we must believe in order to be saved.

Maybe the issue begins with those who believe in creeds not actually knowing what a creed imparts as faith commitment to it itself.
1. An understanding of creeds. A creed is an authoritative statement of the principal affirmations of the Christian faith. It is generally brief and concise, free of definition, proof, or explanation. ....

Colossians 2
8 "See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ."
2 John 1:9
Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
2 Peter 2:1-3
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
The Apostles' Creed in Modern English
(SIC)"....Some evangelical Christians reject the creed--specifically its recitation, not for its content--simply because it is not found in the Bible. "

I note you didn't use the version of the Apostles Creed that has the adherent agree Jesus descended into Hell after giving up the ghost on the cross. (John 19:30)
That could be because you didn't use the traditional Apostles creed, completed at around 700 A.D., was originated in approximately 140 AD. and not at all authored by the Apostles of Christ.
It reads as follows:

The Apostles' Creed in Modern English
(From the Book of Common Prayer)
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic* Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting.

Amen.


This is the point about Creedal faith. One believes, as you demonstrated, in the authority of the creed first. And again as you demonstrate in your pasted version, unlike God's true word, the creed of affirmation and unity in belief changes. But Jesus' truth remains eternal. Jesus' creed stands forever.
Acts 2:38-41,47

And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him." And he testified with many other words and exhorted them, saying, "Save yourselves from this crooked generation." So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added to their number that day about three thousand souls… …praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.​

You erroneously put words in my mouth I never said.

"This is the point about Creedal faith. One believes, as you demonstrated, in the authority of the creed first. And again as you demonstrate in your pasted version, unlike God's true word, the creed of affirmation and unity in belief changes."

Why do you people state creedal faith. Should we call any church using pamphlets for Sunday School pamphlet faith. Should we call anyone reading a book written by a minister explaining an issue be called book faith.

I keep asking for what errors are in any of thee creeds and no one has stated any but erroneously claims those using them have elevated them above the Bible. Saying that is a COMPLETE LIE.

 

[Endoscopy]

Where oh where did Lillywolf go?

 

[dcontroversal]

The ignore button = bliss......especially when dealing with pseudo Catholics in disguise............

In the beginning was the "creed" and the "creed" overcame the word that became flesh and instructed us because the word/bible is not sufficient.....

Makes me want to spew............

 

[Endoscopy]

The ignore button = bliss......especially when dealing with pseudo Catholics in disguise............

In the beginning was the "creed" and the "creed" overcame the word that became flesh and instructed us because the word/bible is not sufficient.....

Makes me want to spew............

I would totally agree with you if you were accurate as to the creeds were trying to do. However you ignore the situation in 212 to 500 when the creeds were created. This is an issue you seem to deliberately ignore.
1. No printing press.
2. Bibles very expensive and rare.
3. Creeds define what a Christian must believe.
4. People back then commanly memorized long texts as part of their education on some topics.
5. Christians memorized the creeds and scripture verses in order to make more converts to Christianity.

You keep avoiding the issue of defining what in any Creed is not Biblical. Why?
Keep in mind the concept that ignorance is bliss. Is that the bliss you seek?