The BASIC Difference between Arminians and Calvinists

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throughfaith

Well-known member
#241
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#241
lenna said:
what?

You making this up? :mad: in all my exchanges with Calvinists in this forum never has one indicated they are in suspense about their salvation

do you not understand the word elect that they have on all their banners?
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Suspense about their election ? of course . A calvinist believes election is unconditional. That they we were chosen before they existed arbitrarily. So what do they look to for conformation of their election ?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#242
#242
lenna said:
well I can understand why that happens sometimes

sometimes the doctrine seems very attached to the person presenting it
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That’s why we need to stop making it personal, and just discuss individually with people and never assume anything

it is hard to do, and I have been guilty, but I am In sin when I do it
 
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Grandpa

Senior Member
#243
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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#243
eternally-gratefull said:
I think one major issue is everyone wants to make it a Calvin vs Arminian argument when most people are neither. And it defeats any true discussion because if you believe in eternal security/OSAS your automatically seen as a Calvinist. If you believe in NOSAS your deemed an Arminian
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Yes. That's the dividing line.

Its like Crossnote said. Calvinists place God as being the first cause and Arminians place people as the first cause.

If God CAUSED our Salvation then it can't be lost unless God, for some unknown reason, decides to take it back. Which is not biblical.

If people CAUSED their own Salvation then it CAN be lost. They caused it so they can further cause the loss of it.


No one has seemed to understand Crossnotes opening post.


Salvation is the dividing line, imo. If you truly understand that Salvation is a Gift that cannot be lost then you lean towards Calvinism. If you believe that what you did (obedience, repentance, baptism, etc...) caused God to save you and you further believe that what you do could cause God to un-save you then you lean towards Arminianism.

Kind of a free-will vs. Gods Will scenario. Whose will win...
 
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lenna

Guest
#244
#244
throughfaith said:
Suspense about their election ? of course . A calvinist believes election is unconditional. That they we were chosen before they existed arbitrarily. So what do they look to for conformation of their election ?
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are you a bot? (semi jking)
 
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lenna

Guest
#245
#245
eternally-gratefull said:
That’s why we need to stop making it personal, and just discuss individually with people and never assume anything

it is hard to do, and I have been guilty, but I am In sin when I do it
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oh you are asking for cows to fly now

we are all in different places and patience is the operative word here I think

there were a few times I thought I might be 'excused' but I try to keep it non abusive

of course we all probably have different ideas about that. and then there is my less than normal sense of humor as well
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#246
#246
Grandpa said:
Yes. That's the dividing line.

Its like Crossnote said. Calvinists place God as being the first cause and Arminians place people as the first cause.

If God CAUSED our Salvation then it can't be lost unless God, for some unknown reason, decides to take it back. Which is not biblical.

If people CAUSED their own Salvation then it CAN be lost. They caused it so they can further cause the loss of it.


No one has seemed to understand Crossnotes opening post.


Salvation is the dividing line, imo. If you truly understand that Salvation is a Gift that cannot be lost then you lean towards Calvinism. If you believe that what you did (obedience, repentance, baptism, etc...) caused God to save you and you further believe that what you do could cause God to un-save you then you lean towards Arminianism.

Kind of a free-will vs. Gods Will scenario. Whose will win...
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I am with ya until the end

i do not lean towards calvinism, I was saved because god led me to repentance and in turn faith. And because of what god did, I was justified freely and I became alive based on that justification

a calvinist would claim I leaned toward Arminianism.

its Like the grace vs works bit

a licentious person would call me a legalist because I call for Christian growth, while a legalist calls me a licentious person because I believe in eternal security

a calvinist would call me arminian leaning because I “saved myself” while an arminian calls me a calvinist, because I believe in eternal security

frankly the calvin vs arminian debate has hurt much conversation in my view which is sad.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#247
#247
lenna said:
oh you are asking for cows to fly now

we are all in different places and patience is the operative word here I think

there were a few times I thought I might be 'excused' but I try to keep it non abusive

of course we all probably have different ideas about that. and then there is my less than normal sense of humor as well
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I hear ya

i just think we are much better off if we listen to what a person says, and not just look for keywords, and claim, well he is calvinist or she is catholic, or he is arminian

when we do so, any means of communication are wasted, because we assume we know what the other believes, and from what I have seen in my many years here, most times we are wrong, but then we are to proud to ad,it it, so it never gets resolved, as we bear false witness against the people we are trying to share our views with
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#248
#248
throughfaith said:
Suspense about their election ? of course . A calvinist believes election is unconditional. That they we were chosen before they existed arbitrarily. So what do they look to for conformation of their election ?
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They are regenerated before they believe supposedly?
 
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Grandpa

Senior Member
#250
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
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#250
eternally-grateful, can you please show me what 1 John 2 means,, this person thinks you mean otherwise, even though I have been to Numerous calvinist churches that say otherwise[/QUOTE]
1 John 2:19 is self evident.

We are Christians. Some of those who call themselves Christian are not Christian. They leave the things we believe and go and do the things that the world believes instead. By doing this they show they were never of us to begin with. Otherwise, they would have stuck with us.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#251
#251
Grandpa said:
1 John 2:19 is self evident.

We are Christians. Some of those who call themselves Christian are not Christian. They leave the things we believe and go and do the things that the world believes instead. By doing this they show they were never of us to begin with. Otherwise, they would have stuck with us.
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So just as I said

thank you bro, you have now confirmed what I said twice
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#254
#254
throughfaith said:
Granpas response. what do you think ? I'm not one for ' I told you so , but ...
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he confirmed what I said about his belief is true,

do you want to continue to argue and call him, a calvinist, a liar?
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#256
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#256
eternally-gratefull said:
he confirmed what I said about his belief is true,

do you want to continue to argue and call him, a calvinist, a liar?
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Well I think I can conclude why your on here and I don't think its to discuss the bible so God bless for now .
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#257
#257
throughfaith said:
lol nice try..you said it related to the anti Christ.
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No, I said they became an antichrist, in what they believed and did

you really need to learn reading comprehension skills
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#259
#259
throughfaith said:
Well I think I can conclude why your on here and I don't think its to discuss the bible so God bless for now .
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You should read this to yourself. Funny when things start to point against you you start to run.

did you read the post on perseverance of the saints in the other thread which completely destroyed your arguments About what they believe?
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#260
#260
Grandpa said:
That is merely an intellectual, theological theory.

How can a theory be confirmation of election?
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I am not sure what you mean?

Election very often in scripture is a call to service.
 
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