The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

brightfame52 · Oct 25, 2023

... "experimentally reconciled to God in a conversion experience" ... more of your unScriptural nonsense. You're making up conditions which do not align with what the Author of Scripture has written.

"for them He died as it is taught in the scripture" ... here's what is "taught in the scripture" ...

the Lord Jesus Christ died for all mankind ... all descendants of Adam:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

... that is what is "taught in the scripture" and when you believe what is "taught in the scripture" you will be ... what is you call it??? ... oh yeah, "experimentally reconciled to God in a conversion experience".

I have explained to you many times reconciliation as revealed in Scripture.

The Greek word katallássō (translated into the English word "reconciliation") means decisively change, as when two parties reconcile when coming ("changing") to the same position.

Reconciliation on the part of God to mankind took place before the foundation of the world.

Reconciliation on the part of man to God takes place at the time a person turns to God in faith ... at that point we are no longer enemies.

Those who reject God even as He reaches out to them remain enemies and are not reconciled to God ... not because God has not made provision for them, but because they reject that which God has provided for them to be reconciled to God.

God (the Party of the first part) established His eternal purpose in eternity past ... and He reconciled Himself to mankind through the death of His Son.

The believer (the party of the second part) is reconciled at the time he or she believes what God says. At that point, both parties (God and the believer) came to the same position (both God and the person are reconciled ... i.e. Greek katallássō).

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

Clearly you are against Christ !

brightfame52 · Oct 27, 2023

It accomplished we being dead to sins !

1 Pet 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Now who are the We here that is dead to sin/s ? And what does it mean to be dead to sins ? Well the answer to the first question, The WE belongs to Believers in Jesus Christ, but also it belongs to all for whom Christ, in His Own Body and Self bare their sins !

Thats absolutely right, for it was solely in the fact that He bare their sins in His own self and Body that resulted in them all being dead to sins !

Now exactly what does it mean to be dead to sins ? It means that they are dead to the condemnation that their sins bring. Sin brings condemnation Rom 5:18a

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

The word condemnation, the greek word katakrima:

punishment following condemnation, penal servitude, penalty.

"the results of judgment") – properly, the exact sentence of condemnation handed down after due process (establishing guilt).

All for whom Christ died are dead to all the condemnation and penalty of their sins !

The reason being, His Death for them, and in their stead, took on all the punishment, condemnation their Transgressions deserved for sinning against God's Law, His Justice has been forever satisfied in their behalf ! This is the Truth so much so, that even as enemies and unbelievers, they have been reconciled to God by His Death Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Notice how Paul tell believers such as his self, that they were reconciled to God when ? When we were enemies, or to say unbelievers ! Thats because they were made by His death, dead to sins ! 39

John146 · Oct 27, 2023

brightfame52 said:

Here’s how you must interpret 1 John 2. If verses 2 is talking only of the world of the elect, then so too you must interpret the rest of that phrase in the same manner.😂

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world of the elect.

same chapter…

15 Love not the world of the elect, neither the things that are in the world of the elect. If any man love the world of the elect, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world of the elect, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world of the elect.
17 And the world of the elect passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

selahsays · Oct 27, 2023

Greetings. . .

Jesus Christ shed His blood and bore those stripes while going through the agony of the cross so that you and I could be justified by believing in Him and repenting of our sins. The only righteousness we possess is the righteousness of Jesus Christ. He is our Advocate; Jesus paid an awesome price to accomplish this.

For you were like sheep going astray, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

- 1 Peter 2:25

brightfame52 · Oct 27, 2023

John146 said:

Here’s how you must interpret 1 John 2. If verses 2 is talking only of the world of the elect, then so too you must interpret the rest of that phrase in the same manner.😂

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world of the elect.

same chapter…

15 Love not the world of the elect, neither the things that are in the world of the elect. If any man love the world of the elect, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world of the elect, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world of the elect.
17 And the world of the elect passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Post 1902 do you understand it ?

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...really-accomplish.199050/page-96#post-5178318

John146 · Oct 27, 2023

brightfame52 said:

All men means all men. Are all men under condemnation? Yes. Did the gift come to all men? Yes, especially those that believe.

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life

Come out from under the RCC Calvin's doctrine unto biblical Christianity.

brightfame52 · Oct 27, 2023

John146 said:

All men means all men. Are all men under condemnation? Yes. Did the gift come to all men? Yes, especially those that believe.

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life

Come out from under the RCC Calvin's doctrine unto biblical Christianity.

You in error.

brightfame52 · Oct 29, 2023

It accomplished we being dead to sins ! 2

Now because Christ bare our sins in His own self and body, the sins we commit in adam, and from our own natural births , they have no power to condemn us before God's Law and Justice, all transgressions of theirs has been taken away, removed from before God's Law and Justice Ps 103:12

12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

Now the purpose of being dead to sins, is so that by New and Spiritual Life granted by Divine quickening from spiritual death, is so we may live unto Righteousness 1 Pet 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that[hina purpose clause] we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

To Live unto Righteousness means to Live by Faith. The word live zao means:

to live, experience God's gift of life. That Gift of Life is New Birth,

It also means:

to live, be among the living, be alive (not lifeless, not dead):

See God cannot be the God of the dead, but of the Living Remember these words Matt 22:32

I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

So hear this, the consequence of being dead to our sins by the Death of Christ, and not having sins charged to us, which death is the wages of Rom 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Then our death must be reversed, its been eliminated, or abolished for us by the Death of Christ, so death in all of its phases, spiritual, eternal, and natural must be reversed into Life, We must be made alive , to begin with Spiritually, this life must be granted us in the way of Justice, and by it we live unto Righteousness ! 39

reneweddaybyday · Oct 29, 2023

brightfame52 said:

the Lord Jesus Christ died for all mankind ... all descendants of Adam:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

brightfame52 said:

those who "go into the second death" do so because they do not believe:

John 3:

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Hear the words of Jesus when He spoke to Martha, the sister of Lazarus:

John 11:

23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.

24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

Those who reject the Lord Jesus Christ will "go into the second death" ... not because God did not provide escape for them ... but because they rejected that which God provided for them to escape.

brightfame52 said:

To whom is the letter written brightfame52? Paul wrote the letter to Timothy, who was a born again believer.

for the born again believer the Lord Jesus Christ has abolished death, and has brought life and immortality to life.

brightfame52 said:

... there is no "miscarriage of Justice" ... those who "go into the second death" rejected God's provision for them ... which is why they will be judged according to their own works ...

Rev 20:

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

they are judged according to their own works because they rejected the One in Whom they could be justified.
.

reneweddaybyday · Oct 29, 2023

brightfame52 said:

... quit trying to align Scripture to your dogma ... "all for whom Christ, in His Own Body and Self bare their sins !"

the Lord Jesus Christ "bare their sins !" for all mankind ... all descendants of Adam:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

brightfame52 said:

Romans 6 answers that question:

Romans 6:

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Only the born again one is dead to sin.

Romans 6:

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Only the born again one can yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead ... only the born again one is freed from the overbearing influence of sin when he or she abides in the Lord Jesus Christ ... for He is the One Who conquered sin.

brightfame52 said:

sigh ... if they are "enemies and unbelievers", they are not "reconciled to God", brightfame52. The terms "enemies" and "reconciled" are mutually exclusive.

The word "enemies" in Rom 5:10 is translated from Greek echthros – ("enemy"), implies irreconcilable hostility

The word "reconciled" in Rom 5:10 is translated from the Greek word katallássō which means decisively change, as when two parties reconcile when coming ("changing") to the same position.

God (the Party of the first part) established His eternal purpose in eternity past ... and He reconciled Himself to mankind through the death of His Son.

The believer (the party of the second part) is reconciled at the time he/she believes. At that point, both parties (God and the believer) came to the same position ... i.e. they are no longer "enemies".

brightfame52 said:

again, brightfame52, God reconciled Himself to mankind before the foundation of the world.

When the believer hears the truth of God's Word and turns to God in faith, he or she is katallássō ... reconciled ... and is no longer echthros ... enemy or unbeliever ... no longer hostile toward God.
.

reneweddaybyday · Oct 29, 2023

brightfame52 said:

... "sins we commit in adam" ... brightfame52, Adam is long dead and buried. When you sin, you sin in and of yourself.

If you are not born again, your sins absolutely will "condemn" you.

and let's read Psalm 103:11 to see to whom Psalm 103:12 refers ...

Psalm 103:

11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.

12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

those who fear (reverence) God are the ones whose transgressions are removed as far as the east is from the west.

Psalm 103:17 But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children

brightfame52 said:

a person is not "dead to sins" until he or she is born again.

a person is not "elect" until he or she is born again, at which point the born again believer has the Elect living in his or her heart:

Colossians 1:27 To whom [the born again believer] God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

brightfame52 · Oct 31, 2023

Christ has already died their second death ! 2

1 Cor 15:3

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Now inclusive in the phrase of Truth, Christ died for our sins, is the second death, in the lake of fire ! Remember John wrote Rev 20:14

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Rev 21:8

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

This is that Eternal Retribution of Wrath for sins Eph 5:5-7

For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

If you notice whoremonger and idolator are also listed in Rev 21:8 as those who go into the second death !

Now, those Christ died for, He has already for them endured God's second death for their sins. The Second Death and Eternal Punishment which should have been their lot with the children of disobedience, has already been done for them, in Christ's dying for their sins. Christ in a short while equivalently suffered all the wrath God's Elect deserved for an eternity, so think how extremely intensified His Pain and Suffering was ? It would have been unbearable lest He was also an Infinite Being, God Man ! It would be Unjust now for any for whom Christ died to be in the number of those who go into the second death ! Because their Surety has already endured it for them, to the Praise of God's Eternal Justice ! I'm indebted to Tobias Crisp in his Book " Christ Exalted " Pg 379-80 for some of these thoughts !

brightfame52 · Nov 4, 2023

Christ had a end in bearing our sins !

Christ had a end in bearing our sins ! Christ's Death had a purpose to effect, it was not that He should die for sins, then set back and see what happens of it.

It is written that He bare the sin of many Heb 9:28

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Isa 53:11-12

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors

And it was to this end, that they be made Holy Eph 5:25-26

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave[or offered as in Heb 9:28] himself for it;

26 That Hina Purpose he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

The word sanctify hagiazo means:

I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify.

[37 (hagiázō) means "to make holy, consecrate, sanctify; to dedicate, separate" (Abbott-Smith).]

This purpose must be a result of Christ giving of Himself for those He died for, or of those whose sins He bare Heb 9:28;Isa 53:11-12 and if not, a main element for the purpose of His death for them has been aborted, a miscarry, which is Blasphemous to even surmise ! 39

reneweddaybyday · Nov 4, 2023

brightfame52 said:

... nope ... according to 1 John 2:2 the Lord Jesus Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world:

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation [Greek = hilasmos] for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

"for ours only" = the sins of those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

"the sins of the whole world" = the sins of those who do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Those who find themselves facing "the second death, in the lake of fire !" are the ones who rejected the Propitiator ... and because they rejected Him, they are judged according to their works ...

Revelation 20:

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

brightfame52 said:

read the verse again, brightfame52, and notice the key attribute of the "whoremonger and idolator"

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

It is the unbelievers who face the second death ... they rejected the Propitiator ... the One Who was sent to propitiate the sins of the whole world:

Propitiation – Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words (bold / red mine):

akin to hileos ("merciful, propitious"), signifies "an expiation, a means whereby sin is covered and remitted." It is used in the NT of Christ Himself as "the propitiation," in 1 John 2:2; 4:10 , signifying that He Himself, through the expiatory sacrifice of His Death, is the Personal means by whom God shows mercy to the sinner who believes on Christ as the One thus provided. In the former passage He is described as "the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world." ... What is indicated is that provision is made for the whole world, so that no one is, by Divine predetermination, excluded from the scope of God's mercy; the efficacy of the "propitiation," however, is made actual for those who believe.

brightfame52 said:

... if you would READ YOUR BIBLE!!! ... maybe, just maybe, you would be indebted to the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as it is He Who has propitiated the sins of the whole world.
.

reneweddaybyday · Nov 4, 2023

brightfame52 said:

It is the denial of the greatness of the death of the Lord Jesus Christ to say that He did not die for every single person … all the iniquity of every body was laid on Him. It is finished. It was done, once for all. This is propitiation. The sins of the whole world ... all descendants of Adam ... were and are propitiated.

God has already satisfied His righteous wrath through the death of His Son, Who, because He is the eternal Son of God … because His infinite life equals the sum total of all human lives which God created … He can substitute Himself as the satisfaction of God’s wrath for all of our sin. All our iniquity was laid on Him.

The Lord Jesus Christ has already satisfied the wrath of God for your sin, every bit of it. But unless you put your faith and trust in what He's already done, you will stand before God and you will have no Advocate to plead on your behalf:

1 John 2:

1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

If you have no Advocate when you stand before God, you will be judged according to your own works:

Revelation 20:

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

For those who do not believe, their sins are not propitiated ... the wrath of God remains on them:

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

brightfame52 · Nov 6, 2023

Ransomed out of unbelief !

Many today dont realize [because they are spiritually blinded] that unbelief/disobedience is part of God's Justice for sin; hence Paul writes God has concluded [in Justice] all in unbelief/disobedience , for the purpose of having mercy upon them all Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all

32 God has ·given [imprisoned] all people ·over to their stubborn ways [L to/in disobedience] so that he can show mercy to all.EXB

The word concluded does mean to consign, shut up, or to imprison, so by nature all men , including the Elect, are imprisoned by God into unbelief/disobedience !

The all in Rom 11:32 are all the Vessels of Mercy, like as in Rom 9:23

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

God imprisoned the Vessels of Mercy into unbelief so that He can demonstrate upon them His Mercy !

Now Christ came to give His Life a ransom for many Matt 20:28

28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Now the word ransom lutron means:

the purchasing money for manumitting slaves, a ransom, the price of ransoming; especially the sacrifice by which expiation is effected, an offering of expiation.

literally, the ransom-money (price) to free a slave. 3083 (lýtron) is used in the NT of the ultimate "liberty-price" – the blood of Christ which purchases (ransoms) believers, freeing them from all slavery (bondage) to sin.

The word above manumitting for slaves means:

To free from slavery or bondage; emancipate.

Now what all this means is all for whom Christ gave His life a ransom for, must be released from all servitude and slavery, imprisonment of sin and unbelief, disobedience.

Yes this means the ransom must experience a liberation from the Justice of unbelief/disobedience, because Christ's Life blood was the ransom payment that satisfied God's Law and Justice, so in Justice God authorizes and performs their release, this as a visible token indicating that Christ's Blood truly indeed was a sufficient payment for their release ! It was the Blood of the Covenant Zech 9:11

11 As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.

God would be Unjust to the ransom blood of Christ, if any for whom He gave His Life a ransom for die in their sins in unbelief Like these Jn 8:24

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Thats because they , if Christ died for them, should have been ransomed out of unbelief ! 40

brightfame52 · Nov 6, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

Its obvious you dont believe in the saving effectiveness of Christs death, since you believe He died for all individuals and yet some of the same go to hell for their sins anyway, whereas His death is limited to them He died for and effectually fulfilled the Purpose intended as Per Eph 5:25-27

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

selahsays · Nov 6, 2023

brightfame52 said:

Christ has already died their second death ! 2

1 Cor 15:3

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Now inclusive in the phrase of Truth, Christ died for our sins, is the second death, in the lake of fire ! Remember John wrote Rev 20:14

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Rev 21:8

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

This is that Eternal Retribution of Wrath for sins Eph 5:5-7

For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

If you notice whoremonger and idolator are also listed in Rev 21:8 as those who go into the second death !

Now, those Christ died for, He has already for them endured God's second death for their sins. The Second Death and Eternal Punishment which should have been their lot with the children of disobedience, has already been done for them, in Christ's dying for their sins. Christ in a short while equivalently suffered all the wrath God's Elect deserved for an eternity, so think how extremely intensified His Pain and Suffering was ? It would have been unbearable lest He was also an Infinite Being, God Man ! It would be Unjust now for any for whom Christ died to be in the number of those who go into the second death ! Because their Surety has already endured it for them, to the Praise of God's Eternal Justice ! I'm indebted to Tobias Crisp in his Book " Christ Exalted " Pg 379-80 for some of these thoughts !

Here is the inheritance of the wicked in contrast to the inheritance of the overcomers:

Revelation 21:8 (KJV)—But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

So all the "wicked" will be consumed, burned up in the lake of fire; they will perish. This is the second death.

fredoheaven · Nov 6, 2023

. . . Christ died for the UNGODLY (only elect ungodly?) . . . -- Rom. 5:6
. . . while we were yet SINNERS (elect sinners?), Christ died for us . . . -- Rom. 5:8
. . . when we were ENEMIES (elected?), we were reconciled to God . . . -- Rom. 5:10
. . . so death passed upon ALL men, for that ALL have sinned . . . --Rom. 5:12
. . . of one judgment came upon ALL men to condemnation . . . -- Rom. 5:18
. . . the free gift came upon ALL men unto justification of life. -- Rom. 5:18
. . . And if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men unto me. -- John 12:32.
. . . I exhort . . . prayers . . . be made for ALL men . . . -- 1 Tim. 2:1
. . . Who will have ALL men to be saved . . . -- 1 Tim. 2:4
. . . Who gave himself a ransom for ALL . . . -- 1 Tim. 2:6
. . . grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to ALL men . . . -- Titus 2:11
. . . who is the Saviour of ALL men, specially of those that believe. –1 Tim. 4:10

reneweddaybyday · Nov 8, 2023

brightfame52 said:

From George Williams Believer's Bible Commentary

God having tested both the Hebrew and the Gentile nations, and both having broken down under the test, He shut them up in unbelief so that, being manifestly without merit, and having by demonstration forfeited all claims and all rights to divine favor, He might, in the unsearchable riches of His grace, have mercy upon them all.

(Believer's Bible Commentary. Nashville: Thomas Nelson)

The point of the verse is God's mercy upon all mankind and the magnitude of God's wisdom is revealed in the verse following verse 32:

Romans 11:32-33 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

brightfame52 said:

... conflating what is written in Romans 11 with what is written in Romans 9 is not proper interpretation of Scripture.

Here is the conclusion of what is written in Romans 9:

Romans 9:30-33

30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

vs 30 – gentiles have attained to righteousness which is of faith.

vs 31-32 – Israel has not attained to righteousness because they sought it not by faith and, therefore, stumbled at the Stumblingstone.

vs 33 – whosoever believeth on the Stumblingstone shall not be ashamed (disappointed).

Here is the conclusion of what is written in Romans 11:

Romans 11:

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

vs 32 – reveals God's mercy upon all mankind.

vs 33 – the wisdom and knowledge of God are beyond the scope of the comprehension of mankind.

vs 34-35 – rhetorical statements as no one can know the mind of the Lord ... we can only know what He reveals to us concerning His thoughts. No one advised God ... no one can out-give God for God recompences over and above anything we give.

vs 36 – all things are of Him, and through Him, and to Him and He alone is worthy of all glory for ever.

brightfame52 said:

From Vine's Expository Dictionary:

... He "gave Himself a ransom for all," indicating that the "ransom" was provisionally universal, while being of a vicarious character. Thus the three passages consistently show that while the provision was universal, for Christ died for all men, yet it is actual for those only who accept God's conditions, and who are described in the Gospel statements as "the many."

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The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

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