Technological Signs relating to Christ’s Coming are being fulfilled.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,893
6,488
113
62
We are on topic. The same consideration that OT prophecy may apply to [far-future] 1st century events is also valid for 1st century prophecy concerning [far-future] events in our time. It is bad reasoning to say that it is true for Daniel but not for Jesus.
The general point I agree with. However, the context of Revelation is concerning that time period. Even Daniel 2 agrees with the timing being 1st century.
 

Beckie

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
2,516
939
113
The promise is real - but it was not made to the current nation of Israel - which was founded on-and-by illicit means by people who were not real Israelites. It is not 'true Israel' from a biblical point of view. It is a nation, yes. It is 'valid' in modern-day world terms. However, it is not "the real thing" from a biblical prophecy perspective. It is a 'false' Israel.

After He returns, Jesus [Himself] will "raise up" the 'true Israel' (as a nation) and give them the land according to the promise - during the Millenium - but, not before.
Thank you for the reply that is a 'new' view to me . :)
 

Beckie

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
2,516
939
113
God is not through with Israel yet. And Abraham will one day get the land that God promised him.
Jos 21:43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.
 
Dec 21, 2020
1,825
474
83
Jos 21:43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.
Do you have a scripture that says Abraham got the land God promised him? All he owned was a burial plot.
 

Beckie

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
2,516
939
113
Do you have a scripture that says Abraham got the land God promised him? All he owned was a burial plot.
Gen_12:7 And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.
 

Radius

Senior Member
Feb 11, 2013
1,171
181
63
The general point I agree with. However, the context of Revelation is concerning that time period. Even Daniel 2 agrees with the timing being 1st century.
Ez. 40-48 deals with the millennial.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
5,803
2,259
113
God is not through with Israel yet. And Abraham will one day get the land that God promised him.
That is the dispensational view, however there are two covenants which is abundantly clear in scripture.

The spiritual replaced the physical.
 
Dec 21, 2020
1,825
474
83
Gen_12:7 And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.
Gen 13:15 for all the land that you see I will give to you and to your offspring forever.
Gen 15:7 And he said to him, "I am the LORD who brought you out from Ur of the Chaldeans to give you this land to possess."
Gen 17:8 And I will give to you and to your offspring after you the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession, and I will be their God."

Abraham will get the land one day.
 
Dec 21, 2020
1,825
474
83
That is the dispensational view,
That's right. I am a dispensationalist.

however there are two covenants which is abundantly clear in scripture.
The covenants pertain to Israel. The Christian church is not Israel.

The spiritual replaced the physical.
God isn't finished with Israel.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
I see no mention of them being spiritually dead.

Yes they were physically killed.

You read the Book of Revelation as a book concerning the future persecution of Christians, it isn't.

It is the revealing of Christ Jesus to those who rejected Him.

Yes literally killed because they will not worship the image. And who it is written to is important as to weather it is towards those who rejected him(Jews ad66-70) or the Church(Christians) because the one(those who reject him) can not be the ones who die for his names sake or for their testimony of Christ because they reject him(don't believe he is the Messiah)...In the other hand though Christians who do believe in Jesus as Messiah can die for his names sake(see Matt.24:9) and for their testimony because they confess Christ. To make this more to the point the Jews involved in the revolt (ad66-70) did not believe in Jesus as Messiah and so did not fulfill the Scriptures concerning those who died because of their testimony(confession of Christ name) only Christians could so bare in mind that in Revelation 1:11 that Jesus himself states that the Revelation is to be sent to the seven Churches(believers in Jesus) https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/1-11.htm
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
Consider the possibility that everything mentioned in Revelation 13:6 is in heaven:

Revelation 13:

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

Revelation 15:

5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:

Revelation 21:

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

As for Revelation 13:14 - it is referring [directly] to the second beast and not the first beast. How exactly are you trying to relate it to Israel?

Yes multitudes of times I pondered if it could mean this or that and then it dawned on me that the angel showed the mystery of the harlot and the scarlet beast that carries her to John in Revelation 17 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/17.htm
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
5,803
2,259
113
Yes literally killed because they will not worship the image. And who it is written to is important as to weather it is towards those who rejected him(Jews ad66-70) or the Church(Christians) because the one(those who reject him) can not be the ones who die for his names sake or for their testimony of Christ because they reject him(don't believe he is the Messiah)...In the other hand though Christians who do believe in Jesus as Messiah can die for his names sake(see Matt.24:9) and for their testimony because they confess Christ. To make this more to the point the Jews involved in the revolt (ad66-70) did not believe in Jesus as Messiah and so did not fulfill the Scriptures concerning those who died because of their testimony(confession of Christ name) only Christians could so bare in mind that in Revelation 1:11 that Jesus himself states that the Revelation is to be sent to the seven Churches(believers in Jesus) https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/1-11.htm
It was not about the death of the zealots.
Who were the zealots against at that time besides Rome?
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
@cv5 - he is correct about Israel.

The Israel that exists today is not "true Israel" (as a nation) from a biblical point of view - it will not exist until after the Second Coming of Christ.

Many people think the 'dry bones' prophecy was fulfilled in 1948/1967. It was not. Jesus Himself will fulfill it when He comes.

Its best I think to re-post your post that I responded to... in it you state that Israel that exist today is not the "true Israel" and that it(meaning the true Israel) will not exist until after the second coming hence you see "two Israel's", one that's true and another that is an imposter. I simply agreed with your assessment and pointed out that in Scripture it notes that someone blasphemes God and his tabernacle(pretends to be Israel and sits in the temple and claims to be God?)...
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
5,803
2,259
113
That's right. I am a dispensationalist.


The covenants pertain to Israel. The Christian church is not Israel.


God isn't finished with Israel.

The Israel of God, to whom the promises were made, is spiritual Israel.

To Abraham and his seed belong the promises. "If ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify3 the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” 9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
Galatians 3

The unconditional promises have been fulfilled.
 
P

pablocito

Guest
You really jumped to a quick conclusion .. My post was a reply to some one. . Really? All i said about God , was the Scriptures are God's Word. Do you personally object to the term God's Word . Your posts jumped out of the blue... just for the record although i can not explain it i believe in the Trinity,.
The Jehovah witness believes in the trinity but their understanding of the trinity is not the same as the evangelical world.

Many Christian denominations have varying interpretations of what the trinity means to them, which conflict with each other. God is not the author of confusion.,

It is better for you to say you believe in Jesus Christ rather than saying you believe in the trinity which is not named in the bible once.

God will not be giving anyone brownie points for their belief in the trinity esp. when most of those beliefs contradict one another.

As for the scriptures, today most Christians do not believe in the scriptures. They believe it contains errors or that one writer plagiarized another writer's work. They cannot understand it because God has blinded them and so they make vain excuses as to why there are seeming differences in each of the gospel accounts of the life of Jesus.

Yes, they say they believe the bible. But I say they lie and God will destroy them for their lies. The foolish explanations they give in explaining the differences in the gospels are pathetic and not worthy of anyone's time.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
It was not about the death of the zealots.
Who were the zealots against at that time besides Rome?

No it's about those who "follow the Lamb"(see Rev. 14:4) and the ones who refused to worship the image https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/14.htm as an preterite you need in your eschatology someone who (did) worship the image and judgment fell on them in ad70. The zealots refused to let them set their images up in the temple and refused to worship the image but they did not "follow the lamb" (they instead denied the Messiah). I do agree that they did not see Rome or it's images as God nor did they worship them(I gave you Wars 2 to show they did not) http://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/war-2.html but do you believe the Zealots of that time frame followed the Lamb and died for their testament of him as described in Revelation 14?


bee back tonight...
 

Beckie

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
2,516
939
113
The Jehovah witness believes in the trinity but their understanding of the trinity is not the same as the evangelical world.

Many Christian denominations have varying interpretations of what the trinity means to them, which conflict with each other. God is not the author of confusion.,

It is better for you to say you believe in Jesus Christ rather than saying you believe in the trinity which is not named in the bible once.

God will not be giving anyone brownie points for their belief in the trinity esp. when most of those beliefs contradict one another.

As for the scriptures, today most Christians do not believe in the scriptures. They believe it contains errors or that one writer plagiarized another writer's work. They cannot understand it because God has blinded them and so they make vain excuses as to why there are seeming differences in each of the gospel accounts of the life of Jesus.

Yes, they say they believe the bible. But I say they lie and God will destroy them for their lies. The foolish explanations they give in explaining the differences in the gospels are pathetic and not worthy of anyone's time.
now you connect me to the JWs ..really? My mistake to think my belief in Jesus was clear in the first post you criticized.
Why do you choose to judge with out learning of the one you are judging. I will not respond again...
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,801
4,303
113
mywebsite.us
The general point I agree with. However, the context of Revelation is concerning that time period. Even Daniel 2 agrees with the timing being 1st century.
The context of Revelation - and that of the Olivet Discourse also - covers a span of ~2000 years - the span of time between the First Coming of Christ and Second Coming of Christ.

It is neither a short period circa 70 A.D. nor a short period in our future.