Spiritual Baptism
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I don't comprehend the difficulty?
1. Water baptism has always been important and a sign to the world of your decision. If your not willing to tell/show the world your choice then I have to question if you have really chosen to follow Christ. But if your in a hospital bed or for some reason can't be baptized in water... I'm sure God makes allowance.
2. "If you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and was raised from the dead, YOU WILL BE SAVED. Period, there are no "and" or "if" statements after that. You don't have to be a part of a certain denomination or only eat vegetables, or anything else. Once you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is promised. Some say immediately some say it takes a bit. Doesn't matter.
3. There is an equipping for service. This is the most debated. And heavily so. Some call it the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Some as the Assemblies of God say that it is evidenced by an initial evidence of speaking in tongues and that this is a personal language between you and God for personal edification different than the Prophetic Gift of tongues, other say there is no outward manifestation, others say there can be but it's not mandatory, others say there is no more baptism of the Holy Spirit any more. This is normally justified by the scripture that talks about tongues and prophecy ceasing when perfection comes and the say the 66 Books of the Bible are that perfection.
The first 2 items above are simple and straight forward. Only cults argue the point. The 3 is where we each have to decide for ourselves through studying the word faithfully and prayerfully what we will believe.
But number 3 does not decide our salvation. It is not and never has been a condition of salvation.
1. Water baptism has always been important and a sign to the world of your decision. If your not willing to tell/show the world your choice then I have to question if you have really chosen to follow Christ. But if your in a hospital bed or for some reason can't be baptized in water... I'm sure God makes allowance.
2. "If you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and was raised from the dead, YOU WILL BE SAVED. Period, there are no "and" or "if" statements after that. You don't have to be a part of a certain denomination or only eat vegetables, or anything else. Once you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is promised. Some say immediately some say it takes a bit. Doesn't matter.
3. There is an equipping for service. This is the most debated. And heavily so. Some call it the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Some as the Assemblies of God say that it is evidenced by an initial evidence of speaking in tongues and that this is a personal language between you and God for personal edification different than the Prophetic Gift of tongues, other say there is no outward manifestation, others say there can be but it's not mandatory, others say there is no more baptism of the Holy Spirit any more. This is normally justified by the scripture that talks about tongues and prophecy ceasing when perfection comes and the say the 66 Books of the Bible are that perfection.
The first 2 items above are simple and straight forward. Only cults argue the point. The 3 is where we each have to decide for ourselves through studying the word faithfully and prayerfully what we will believe.
But number 3 does not decide our salvation. It is not and never has been a condition of salvation.
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Then please enlighten us.
Being baptized by the Holy Spirit IS receiving the Holy Spirit. I guess you are not there yet or you would know this.
Jhn 14:17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you.
Peace.
Being baptized by the Holy Spirit IS receiving the Holy Spirit. I guess you are not there yet or you would know this.
Jhn 14:17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you.
Peace.
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1. The term "spiritual baptism" should not be used in this context. It could be mistaken for some connection with spiritism.
2. The Bible speaks of (1) the baptism WITH the Holy Ghost and (2) the baptism BY the Holy Spirit. There are two distinct and separate baptisms but almost simultaneous.
THE BAPTISM WITH THE HOLY GHOST
To be baptized WITH the Holy Ghost would mean to have the Holy Spirit "poured out" upon the believer. The one who baptizes is Christ Himself, and since every believer receives the gift of the Holy Spirit upon obeying the Gospel, this is in fact the gift of the Spirit. John the Baptizer revealed this to us as follows: I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: (Mt 3:11)
This is further explained in Titus 3:6: Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour. "Shed on us abundantly" would be the same as "poured upon us abundantly".
The mention of baptism "with fire" should not be included in this, since the context makes it clear that John was contrasting salvation with damnation. The fire refers to the unquenchable fire of the Lake of Fire. Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. (Mt 3:12)
THE BAPTISM BY THE HOLY SPIRIT
The Holy Spirit in turn "immerses" or "baptizes" the believer into the Body of Christ (the Church): For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (1 Cor 12:12,13)
2. The Bible speaks of (1) the baptism WITH the Holy Ghost and (2) the baptism BY the Holy Spirit. There are two distinct and separate baptisms but almost simultaneous.
THE BAPTISM WITH THE HOLY GHOST
To be baptized WITH the Holy Ghost would mean to have the Holy Spirit "poured out" upon the believer. The one who baptizes is Christ Himself, and since every believer receives the gift of the Holy Spirit upon obeying the Gospel, this is in fact the gift of the Spirit. John the Baptizer revealed this to us as follows: I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: (Mt 3:11)
This is further explained in Titus 3:6: Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour. "Shed on us abundantly" would be the same as "poured upon us abundantly".
The mention of baptism "with fire" should not be included in this, since the context makes it clear that John was contrasting salvation with damnation. The fire refers to the unquenchable fire of the Lake of Fire. Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. (Mt 3:12)
THE BAPTISM BY THE HOLY SPIRIT
The Holy Spirit in turn "immerses" or "baptizes" the believer into the Body of Christ (the Church): For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (1 Cor 12:12,13)
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Why make something so simple so complicated. There is one Holy Spirit. You receive the Holy Spirit if you believe and OBEY / Follow Christ. It is a wonderful Gift for the true believers.
As for the Fire, it means to purify the soul to make perfect nothing more.
Mal 3:1 “Behold, I will send My messenger, who will prepare the way before Me. Then the Lord whom you seek will suddenly come to His temple—the Messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight—see, He is coming,” says the LORD of Hosts.
Mal 3:2 But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He will be like a refiner’s fire, like a launderer’s soap.
Mal 3:3 And He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver. Then they will present offerings to the LORD in righteousness.
Mal 3:4 Then the offerings of Judah and Jerusalem will please the LORD, as in days of old and years gone by.
Mal 3:5 “Then I will draw near to you for judgment. And I will be a swift witness against sorcerers and adulterers and perjurers, against oppressors of the widowed and fatherless, and against those who defraud laborers of their wages and deny justice to the foreigner but do not fear Me,” says the LORD of Hosts.
Isa 4:4 when the Lord has washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed the bloodstains from the heart of Jerusalem by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of fire.
Mat 3:11 I baptize you with water for repentance, but after me will come One more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
Mat 3:12 His winnowing fork is in His hand to clear His threshing floor and to gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
Peace
As for the Fire, it means to purify the soul to make perfect nothing more.
Mal 3:1 “Behold, I will send My messenger, who will prepare the way before Me. Then the Lord whom you seek will suddenly come to His temple—the Messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight—see, He is coming,” says the LORD of Hosts.
Mal 3:2 But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He will be like a refiner’s fire, like a launderer’s soap.
Mal 3:3 And He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver. Then they will present offerings to the LORD in righteousness.
Mal 3:4 Then the offerings of Judah and Jerusalem will please the LORD, as in days of old and years gone by.
Mal 3:5 “Then I will draw near to you for judgment. And I will be a swift witness against sorcerers and adulterers and perjurers, against oppressors of the widowed and fatherless, and against those who defraud laborers of their wages and deny justice to the foreigner but do not fear Me,” says the LORD of Hosts.
Isa 4:4 when the Lord has washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed the bloodstains from the heart of Jerusalem by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of fire.
Mat 3:11 I baptize you with water for repentance, but after me will come One more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
Mat 3:12 His winnowing fork is in His hand to clear His threshing floor and to gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
Peace
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The rebuttal to that is found in Titus 3:4-7, which brings everything together.
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
1. Not by works of righteousness which we have done, (WORKS EXCLUDED)
2. ...but according to his mercy he saved us, (SALVATION BY GOD'S GRACE)
3. ...by the washing of regeneration, (INCLUDES THE NEW BIRTH)
4. ...and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (INCLUDES A NEW PERSON IN CHRIST)
5. ...Which he shed on us abundantly (INCLUDES THE OUTPOURING OF THE SPIRIT)
6. ...through Jesus Christ our Saviour; (CHRIST IS THE BAPTIZER)
7. ...That being justified by his grace, (JUSTIFICATION BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH)
8. ...we should be made heirs (HEIRS OF GOD)
9. ...according to the hope of eternal life.(RECEIVING THE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE)
There is nothing in all the epistles to suggest that the baptism with the Holy Spirit is not the same as the gift of the Holy Spirit. And this passage confirms it (Eph 1:12-14):
That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
And this is what we read in Acts 2:38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
If you are referring to "being filled with the Holy Spirit" that is entirely different. And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
(Acts 4:31)
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
1. Not by works of righteousness which we have done, (WORKS EXCLUDED)
2. ...but according to his mercy he saved us, (SALVATION BY GOD'S GRACE)
3. ...by the washing of regeneration, (INCLUDES THE NEW BIRTH)
4. ...and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (INCLUDES A NEW PERSON IN CHRIST)
5. ...Which he shed on us abundantly (INCLUDES THE OUTPOURING OF THE SPIRIT)
6. ...through Jesus Christ our Saviour; (CHRIST IS THE BAPTIZER)
7. ...That being justified by his grace, (JUSTIFICATION BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH)
8. ...we should be made heirs (HEIRS OF GOD)
9. ...according to the hope of eternal life.(RECEIVING THE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE)
There is nothing in all the epistles to suggest that the baptism with the Holy Spirit is not the same as the gift of the Holy Spirit. And this passage confirms it (Eph 1:12-14):
That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
And this is what we read in Acts 2:38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
If you are referring to "being filled with the Holy Spirit" that is entirely different. And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
(Acts 4:31)
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Hello SoldierofChrist .
. I am collaging using multiple pieces made available on various sites for use in personal projects with the caveat of no financial gain, which I am fine with. Over the last six years that I have been doing this, I have collected thousands and thousands of "ephemera": borders, frames, backgrounds, butterflies, flowers, special effects, etc... all manner of things, really- including lots of different faces and various human parts like eyes (because I almost always change the eyes on any face I start out with)... anything I think I can make use of. I work in photoshop, layering the elements together, after positioning, sizing, colour correcting, and making other edits/adjustments to each piece the bring it into harmony with the overall panel, changes including contrast, saturation, hue, lightness, exposure (those two sound the same but are different) and opacity. It's all very experimental! I have worked in the photofinishing industry for over forty years after falling in love with darkroom work while in college. It was the only thing I knew I wanted to do, and God graciously allowed me to start my first lab job on the day of my 21st birthday. There are a few posts on this thread (<= link) where I show another member some of my process if you would like to check it out .
. I am collaging using multiple pieces made available on various sites for use in personal projects with the caveat of no financial gain, which I am fine with. Over the last six years that I have been doing this, I have collected thousands and thousands of "ephemera": borders, frames, backgrounds, butterflies, flowers, special effects, etc... all manner of things, really- including lots of different faces and various human parts like eyes (because I almost always change the eyes on any face I start out with)... anything I think I can make use of. I work in photoshop, layering the elements together, after positioning, sizing, colour correcting, and making other edits/adjustments to each piece the bring it into harmony with the overall panel, changes including contrast, saturation, hue, lightness, exposure (those two sound the same but are different) and opacity. It's all very experimental! I have worked in the photofinishing industry for over forty years after falling in love with darkroom work while in college. It was the only thing I knew I wanted to do, and God graciously allowed me to start my first lab job on the day of my 21st birthday. There are a few posts on this thread (<= link) where I show another member some of my process if you would like to check it out .
I think you misunderstand the situation. No one claims that baptism into Christ replaces immersion in water as a sign of this faith. But immersion in water doesn't save, anymore than physical circumcision saved in the Old Testament, rather than circumcision of the heart. If physical circumcision saved in the Old Testament, then all of the unbelieving Jews condemned by God would have been saved, along with all females by default and even other nations like the Egyptians. But what counted was the state of the heart, and physical circumcision was just a metaphor for that.
If one truly believes on Christ and is immersed into Him, then one will usually gladly and willingly undergo water baptism, when one realises what Christ commands, just as those who believed in the Old Testament gladly underwent circumcision of their males.
If water baptism saved, it would be that all those who believed, but receive a sprinkling rather than an immersion would be damned, when this is not the case, because baptism in water, as any other work, doesn't save. It wasn't required for salvation for the thief on the cross, and it's not required for salvation for us, although it's hard to understand a situation could exist where one who had saving faith in Christ and knew His command would not want to obey it.
If one truly believes on Christ and is immersed into Him, then one will usually gladly and willingly undergo water baptism, when one realises what Christ commands, just as those who believed in the Old Testament gladly underwent circumcision of their males.
If water baptism saved, it would be that all those who believed, but receive a sprinkling rather than an immersion would be damned, when this is not the case, because baptism in water, as any other work, doesn't save. It wasn't required for salvation for the thief on the cross, and it's not required for salvation for us, although it's hard to understand a situation could exist where one who had saving faith in Christ and knew His command would not want to obey it.
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In keeping with the context it is clear that obedience to water baptism is essential for those living in the NT. After presenting his message, Peter instructed the individuals to save themselves from the untoward (perverse) generation. (Acts 2:36-41) And they did. They placed their trust in God and obeyed the command.
I think there is something crucial in the account that many fail to realize. Those who were told to save themselves had already expressed belief in Jesus. I am reminded of Jesus' words, "he who believes and is baptized shall be saved." (Mark 16:15-16)
"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Acts 2:37-41
I think there is something crucial in the account that many fail to realize. Those who were told to save themselves had already expressed belief in Jesus. I am reminded of Jesus' words, "he who believes and is baptized shall be saved." (Mark 16:15-16)
"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Acts 2:37-41
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“Matthew 3:11 I baptize you with water for repentance, but after me will come One more powerful
than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.”
“and, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.”
Acts 1:4-5 KJV
“And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.”
Acts 2:3-4 KJV
“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
Acts 10:44, 46-48 KJV
than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.”
“and, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.”
Acts 1:4-5 KJV
“And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.”
Acts 2:3-4 KJV
“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
Acts 10:44, 46-48 KJV
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turbosixx,------your taking one verse out of Context and trying to make it say what your think it says ----you need to read this verse in Context to get the true message -----
I personally think if your a saved person then you are still Milk fed and cannot grasp what you are trying to understand -----the Holy Spirit will only reveal what your able to handle ------and it seems your still a Babe in Christ and on the Milk phase ----not the meat phase ------
You need to read the whole Chapter of Acts 2 to find out what is going on ------
And I do believe that this Baptism is of water ---but you need to understand why this is -------No one was or is Saved by water baptism --your saved By Grace through faith In the Blood of Jesus now -----and you receive the Holy Spirit in you at that moment when you receive Jesus in your heart ------
Peter is speaking to Jews here ------they Jews knew John the Baptise was using Water Baptism for Repentance only -------these people being Baptised in water by John the Baptist were admitting they were sinners in need of a saviour ----they had a mind change ------that is it ------these people were not Saved by Water dunking -----
Strong's Concordance
metanoia: change of mind, repentance
especially the change of mind of those who have begun to abhor their errors and misdeeds, and have determined to enter upon a better course of life, so that it embraces both a recognition of sin and sorrow for it and hearty amendment, the tokens and effects of which are good deeds
Acts 2 -----first part
The Holy Spirit Comes at Pentecost
2 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues[a] as the Spirit enabled them.
2nd part ---Peter speaks to the Jewish people here --
Peter Urges The Crowd To Repent And Be Baptized. About 3,000 Respond
These Jews after hearing Peter speak ---then needed to REPENT ------and to Show that they were serious about their repentance and faith in Jesus -----Peter is telling them to be Baptised in water to show that they are serious about Receiving the Gift of the Holy Spirit ----3,000 respond --so this is saying there were more than 3,000 Jews listening to Peter ---
3;000 responded --other did not ------then after they were Baptised in water they received the gift of Holy Spirit and joined the Saints ---------
The Jews listening to Peter were familiar with the water Baptism for Repentance because John The Baptist came to use water baptism for Repentance only -----so they would have heard that this was the process to receiving the Gift of the Holy Spirit and so Peter said what they would have been familiar with ------
Commentary on this verse Acts 2:38
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
The apostle exhorted them to repent of their sins, and openly to avow their belief in Jesus as the Messiah, by being baptized in his name. Thus professing their faith in Him,
Today we dunk ourselves in Water Baptism as a profession of our Faith in Jesus and we do this after we are Saved today -------and it is optional --you cannot loose your Salvation if you do not submerge yourself in water ------
Grow in your Faith and rely on the Holy Spirit to direct you into the Meaning of the Scripture -------as I said your confusing yourself cause your trying figure out what your not able to on your own power ----let the Holy Spirit guide your steps He knows where your at in your Faith walk with Christ ----and will feed you what you can handle ------
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