Speaking in tongues
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what are you saying?
do you deny this:
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13
it is believing in Jesus that means we are saved
you put far too much emphasis on 'tongues' IMO
understand that a believer is sealed whether or not they speak in tongues
tongues do not save you
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7
so you have no proof of what you say?
well I know that
you know, I'm not going to deal with your disapproval.
I know what the x means LOL!
you cannot supply any scripture that states if you do not speak in tongues you are not filled with the Holy Spirit
this seems to be a claim of your church the way you adhere to it, but it isn't in scripture and I have no clue what you are saying about Acts 8 or your challenge
this is a discussion forum but if folks cannot put up what they say everyone should believe...well...not much to discuss after that
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how about it waggles. do you see what Paul says below? he says not all speak with tongues, so why do you insist on it?
1 Corinthians 12:7-11
To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another a gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.
1 Corinthians 12:27-30
Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?
1 Corinthians 12:7-11
To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another a gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.
1 Corinthians 12:27-30
Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?
Acts 8 has to do with those in Samaria who had not received the Holy Spirit for power like at Pentecost. They had heard of Jesus they were saved per verse 16 but they did not know of the Pentecost experience so Peter laid hands on them and they were filled with the Holy Spirit. The passage does not indicate that they spoke in tongues. Simon then goes on to seek the Holy Spirit in exchange for money and Peter rebukes him.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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yeah ok I thought so but I already actually did address that so I thought 'did I miss something'
well they may very well have spoken in tongues...there are other examples where people were saved but did not speak in tongues until later...another indication you do not have to speak in tongues to be saved
fill in the blanks interpretation is sketchy at best
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I think people are saying to be filled you must speak in tongues but again, I don't see where Paul says that since he states that not everyone speaks in tongues
I think being sealed means saved? when we are first saved?
I think being filled is a separate event as per those we read of who were saved but had not yet 'received' in the sense of something different
at any rate, too much emphasis is put on that gift ... which was the prob with the Corinthian church
I think garee is a little hard to understand but I cannot fault his posting style
I think being sealed means saved? when we are first saved?
I think being filled is a separate event as per those we read of who were saved but had not yet 'received' in the sense of something different
at any rate, too much emphasis is put on that gift ... which was the prob with the Corinthian church
I think garee is a little hard to understand but I cannot fault his posting style
While the passage does not specifically say that Simon saw them speak in tongues:
Acts 8:
15) Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16) (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17) Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18) And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
What did Simon see that caused him to offer money?
You can call it conjecture if you like, but Simon saw something that made him want to offer money to get the same power.
In Acts 2, the apostles spoke in tongues.
We know Paul spoke in tongues.
We know the Corinthian church spoke in tongues.
In Acts 10, Cornelius and his family spoke in tongues.
In Acts 19 the Ephesians spoke in tongues.
In Acts 8, Simon saw something that made him want to offer money.
The norm in the first century was that when people became Christian, they spoke in tongues.
Acts 8:
15) Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16) (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17) Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18) And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
What did Simon see that caused him to offer money?
You can call it conjecture if you like, but Simon saw something that made him want to offer money to get the same power.
In Acts 2, the apostles spoke in tongues.
We know Paul spoke in tongues.
We know the Corinthian church spoke in tongues.
In Acts 10, Cornelius and his family spoke in tongues.
In Acts 19 the Ephesians spoke in tongues.
In Acts 8, Simon saw something that made him want to offer money.
The norm in the first century was that when people became Christian, they spoke in tongues.
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from what you note, yes
but again, Paul does say that not all speak in tongues
look...I speak in tongues myself (well pray mostly actually) but I have to look at what is being said and I think that, well, not all speak in tongues because the Bible says that
and at the same time, if you are receiving a spiritual gift from God, then you must be filled
I cannot, at the moment, conclude otherwise
shrugs
but again, Paul does say that not all speak in tongues
look...I speak in tongues myself (well pray mostly actually) but I have to look at what is being said and I think that, well, not all speak in tongues because the Bible says that
and at the same time, if you are receiving a spiritual gift from God, then you must be filled
I cannot, at the moment, conclude otherwise
shrugs
It is true that a Christian does not have to speak in tongues, nor is it true that if a Christian does not speak in tongues he does not have the Holy Spirit.
It's true that not all Christians speak in tongues. But the context of that statement is the church, in meetings. In meetings not everyone does everything. And Paul does state, by revelation, that he desires all Christians to speak in tongues. Speaking in tongues is also praying in the spirit (1 Cor 14:14-15), and Eph 6:18 says we are to always be praying in the spirit, and Jude 20 says we are to build ourselves up by praying in the spirit.
When we act on Rom 10:9 (cp Eph 1:13-14).
I believe its the same event. Again, Eph 1:13. The only case where the hs came later is Acts 19, and that's because they hadn't even heard of the Holy Spirit.
Tongues is not a gift, it's one of the nine manifestations of the gift of the Holy Spirit.
The problem with the Corinthian church (one of them.. lol ) was that they were all speaking at once, out of order, and nobody was interpreting.
I think garee is frequently very hard to understand. Many of his posts are all over the place, seemingly collections of random thoughts. Others have noted it as well. Of the parts I do understand, particularly concerning speaking in tongues, I think he's flat wrong. He has stated over and over that tongues is God speaking prophecy. The Bible explicitly states that when people speak in tongues, they are are speaking TO God (1 or 14:2). Also tongues is not prophecy. Tongues are tongues, prophecy is prophecy.
I'm sure you'll respond, but I have to finish up mowing, so it will be awhile before I can respond back.
It's true that not all Christians speak in tongues. But the context of that statement is the church, in meetings. In meetings not everyone does everything. And Paul does state, by revelation, that he desires all Christians to speak in tongues. Speaking in tongues is also praying in the spirit (1 Cor 14:14-15), and Eph 6:18 says we are to always be praying in the spirit, and Jude 20 says we are to build ourselves up by praying in the spirit.
When we act on Rom 10:9 (cp Eph 1:13-14).
I believe its the same event. Again, Eph 1:13. The only case where the hs came later is Acts 19, and that's because they hadn't even heard of the Holy Spirit.
Tongues is not a gift, it's one of the nine manifestations of the gift of the Holy Spirit.
The problem with the Corinthian church (one of them.. lol ) was that they were all speaking at once, out of order, and nobody was interpreting.
I think garee is frequently very hard to understand. Many of his posts are all over the place, seemingly collections of random thoughts. Others have noted it as well. Of the parts I do understand, particularly concerning speaking in tongues, I think he's flat wrong. He has stated over and over that tongues is God speaking prophecy. The Bible explicitly states that when people speak in tongues, they are are speaking TO God (1 or 14:2). Also tongues is not prophecy. Tongues are tongues, prophecy is prophecy.
I'm sure you'll respond, but I have to finish up mowing, so it will be awhile before I can respond back.
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23 But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth:
for the Father seeks such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.
John 4:
But when the Comforter [the Holy Spirit] is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which
proceeds from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 15:26
So in order to comply and be in accord with this a disciple needs to be assured that they are indeed a true worshipper,
and indeed do really have the Spirit of truth indwelling them.
This is why Jesus said those that believe would speak in new tongues - confirmation and evidence of truth.
18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Jude 1:
So how do "believers" pray in the Spirit and worship in the Spirit if they cannot pray in tongues - a God given prayer
language expressly given for this very purpose.
for the Father seeks such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.
John 4:
But when the Comforter [the Holy Spirit] is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which
proceeds from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 15:26
So in order to comply and be in accord with this a disciple needs to be assured that they are indeed a true worshipper,
and indeed do really have the Spirit of truth indwelling them.
This is why Jesus said those that believe would speak in new tongues - confirmation and evidence of truth.
18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Jude 1:
So how do "believers" pray in the Spirit and worship in the Spirit if they cannot pray in tongues - a God given prayer
language expressly given for this very purpose.
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