Speaking in tongues

[garee]

Okay, so God told you it was false: all of it? Because I heard from God just the opposite. One of us must be listening to the wrong spirit. We are in the last days where knowledge is increasing (Dan. 12:4). The actual advent (literal return) of Christ was shuttered by the Catholics and the offshoot Protestants and nobody really believed until about mid-1800s during the Adventist Movement. The Gifts of the Spirit was shuttered until about 1900 during the Pentecostal Movement.

Go ahead and stay with those antichrist inspired denominations and reject anything that makes you uncomfortable. I have been in Pentecostal worship services where so many were praising God and praying that the Holy Spirit overcame the entire congregation and just shut us up one by one. Everyone got one their knees and just basked in the felt presence. I am sorry you and Garee had bad experiences with people trying to force tongues, but your hard stance against any of it is just plain wrong. Quit trying to be an expert of interpreting God's word and gain a little humility.

Sounds like someone was basking in self edification. Experience is not the validator of the unseen spiritual truth of God. All die not receiving the final promise .We walk by faith the eternal and not that in which the eyes see.(the temporal) That seems to get turned upside down when men discuss what some call "sign gifts"(.no faith)

No one tried to force anyone .No one can force God to speak "prophecy" when he has sealed up that possibility of "no more words"(Not sounds) . The last word of prophecy is still the last on the last page . Why go above that which is written?

We can prove God to be true by not going above that which is written... called trying or testing the spirit to see if they are of God coming down from in heaven or men on inspired from earth .In that way the elect that listens to the waring not to add or subtract ., they will not be deceived .The scripture says not possible if men do not add to it or take away from the perfect, They were warned before time.

God is not bringing any new revelations in any manner to include God as our father bringing new prophecy in the tongues of all the nations of the world. He is the father of many nation not just the Hebrew in who the "sign of tongues" is against seeing they refuse to hear prophecy in exchange for a oral tradition of the fathers just as those who seek after sign today .

The law concerning tongues. This is when God was still bringing new revelations as to its foundation. Isiah 28 identifies who the sign is against and what it confirm. (God mocking them who refuse to hear)

As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee.
But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil. Jerimiah 44:16 -17

The confirmation of the sign below. it speaks of those who do add to prophecy in various manners. Signs are designed for those who rebel. Prophecy those who believe God (no sign)

And this shall be a sign unto you, saith the Lord, that I will punish you in this place, that ye may know that my words shall surely stand against you for evil: Jerimiah 44:29

Those who seek after a sign before they will believe God is with them, they simply turn things upside down as did the Jews in Isaiah to take away the unseen understanding and is why God mocks them who mock him .

Same pattern as below. upside down theology as if the words of God were earthly inspired of the devil and not heavenly inspired from above .

Isaiah 29:16Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

 

[preacher4truth]

Okay, so God told you it was false: all of it? Because I heard from God just the opposite. One of us must be listening to the wrong spirit. We are in the last days where knowledge is increasing (Dan. 12:4). The actual advent (literal return) of Christ was shuttered by...the offshoot Protestants

The latter comment in the above is unfortunately a direct lie, but this is not something beyond "Deade" to say. It is a purposed exaggeration in order to bear false witness.

and nobody really believed until about mid-1800s during the Adventist Movement. The Gifts of the Spirit was shuttered until about 1900 during the Pentecostal Movement.

Go ahead and stay with those antichrist inspired denominations and reject anything that makes you uncomfortable. I have been in Pentecostal worship services where so many were praising God and praying that the Holy Spirit overcame the entire congregation and just shut us up one by one. Everyone got one their knees and just basked in the felt presence. I am sorry you and Garee had bad experiences with people trying to force tongues, but your hard stance against any of it is just plain wrong. Quit trying to be an expert of interpreting God's word and gain a little humility.

The loathing of others and lack of knowledge (ignorance) in the entire above is remarkable yet unsurprising.

Apparently only those of the ilk of "Deade" are genuine believers, all others he holds in disdain are apparently lost and of the devil.

 

[PS]

Tongues IS a legitimate gift no doubt about that. And if the legitimate gift is working today, then they should be known to be true BEYOND REFUTATION as they were in the early Church.

So my requirement for a test per the Act ch 2 standard is not asking too much. Not at all.
In fact my request for video and analysis is the MINIMUM REQUIREMENT.

Just upload the video people. I will take care of the rest and any costs for analysis will be paid by me.

Thus far all that I have seen and heard is evasion, tip-toeing around the issue, and attempts at biblical obfuscation and smokescreens.

Just upload the video/audio footage. There must be thousands and millions of incidents per day according the Pentecostals, so easy peasy.

I remember Richard Dawkins asking for proof. That is OK in the physical world where we have the instruments to measure earthly things, but the spiritual is out of range.

 

[cv5]

What do you think to baptize for the dead means?

Why would anyone baptize in the name of a saint. Was Paul crucified for the sin of the world?

Why not two resurrections .One when Christ said it is finished and the other at the end of the age?

First of all, "baptize in the name of a saint" is NOT a command. It is NOT doctrine. It was NEVER a spoken of as requirement for salvation.

Likely it was a pagan practice erroneously carried over by the Corinthians or an invention by their Church, and Paul mentions it as a rhetorical device.....when addressing the Corinthians. Nobody knows exactly what it IS, but we know what it ISN'T.

Calling this doctrine is the stuff cults are built upon.

 

[cv5]

I remember Richard Dawkins asking for proof. That is OK in the physical world where we have the instruments to measure earthly things, but the spiritual is out of range.

Total rubbish. Upload the video/audio please. This would be the modern equivalent of the record (ing) duly noted and confirmed in Acts Ch 2.

Then ALL OF US CAN BE EDIFIED BY IT....which was and would fulfill its original intent....correct? Somebody....anybody could simply upload a number of legitimate tongues videos and rejoice and believe....correct? I mean many Church Sunday services have the entire morning video recorded correct? There should be tons and tons of video footage of tongues available for instantaneous review.

I could care less about Dawkins or what he says.

 

[PS]

Total rubbish. Upload the video/audio please. This would be the modern equivalent of the record (ing) duly noted and confirmed in Acts Ch 2.

Then ALL OF US CAN BE EDIFIED BY IT....which was and would fulfill its original intent....correct? Somebody....anybody could simply upload a number of legitimate tongues videos and rejoice and believe....correct? I mean many Church Sunday services have the entire morning video recorded correct? There should be tons and tons of video footage of tongues available for instantaneous review.

I could care less about Dawkins or what he says.

You say you believe and then ask for proof, that is a contradiction in terms.

My Father when he either spoke in tongues or interpreted saw images that had a message. The words he spoke were not in any known language but were understood by other interpreters in the congregation. I'm sorry, I cannot oblige.

 

[cv5]

You say you believe and then ask for proof, that is a contradiction in terms.

My Father when he either spoke in tongues or interpreted saw images that had a message. The words he spoke were not in any known language but were understood by other interpreters in the congregation. I'm sorry, I cannot oblige.

Nope. Wrong. Don't put words in my mouth.
I DO NOT believe that MOST of what passes as tongues today is legit.
There MAY BE legitimate tongues occurring today, and I have a right to see it.

I also have the OBLIGATION to proclaim the REAL tongues and likewise to denounce the FRAUD tongues, as do you.

Upload the video. There must be untold gigabytes on cell phones everywhere.
I want to be edified by the REAL tongues. That is my request, and EVERYONES OBLIGATION who is speaking tongues. Record them and post them.

 

[cv5]

You say you believe and then ask for proof, that is a contradiction in terms.

My Father when he either spoke in tongues or interpreted saw images that had a message. The words he spoke were not in any known language but were understood by other interpreters in the congregation. I'm sorry, I cannot oblige.

The words he spoke were not in any known language but were understood by other interpreters in the congregation. I'm sorry, I cannot oblige

In other words.....a complete, utter and total failure to meet the Acts Ch 2 test.
There were indeed other known (commonly known, commonly used) languages spoken by belivers who themselves did not know that language beforehand.

 

[cv5]

You say you believe and then ask for proof, that is a contradiction in terms.

My Father when he either spoke in tongues or interpreted saw images that had a message. The words he spoke were not in any known language but were understood by other interpreters in the congregation. I'm sorry, I cannot oblige.

"not in any known language but were understood by other interpreters"

Since when do you need interpreters for languages not known? Sounds like typical Pentecostal double talk to me. Can't prove sign gifts? Sign gifts main primary attribute is that they COULD NOT BE DENIED OR FAKED and common folk would understand and know that their origin was from the true Church.

Your comments fail to meet that test as well, which is why I am discarding your claims to tongues as fraudulent.

 

[garee]

First of all, "baptize in the name of a saint" is NOT a command. It is NOT doctrine. It was NEVER a spoken of as requirement for salvation.

Likely it was a pagan practice erroneously carried over by the Corinthians or an invention by their Church, and Paul mentions it as a rhetorical device.....when addressing the Corinthians. Nobody knows exactly what it IS, but we know what it ISN'T.

Calling this doctrine is the stuff cults are built upon.

No such thing to baptize in the name of a sinner .

To baptize is a ceremonial law having it foundation in the priesthood of believers as a purifying ceremony that points the unseen eternal . It was applied when a new priest had a desire to become one of the priest to administer the gospel .( the doctrine of baptism)

To baptize the dead for the living represents a Catholic false doctrine needed to support their "necromancy foundation" .which is revealed as a lie in Isaiah 8:19-20

Isaiah 8:19-20 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

The word Seek is dardash from the Hebrew. It means to inquire after. It is used both way below one to venerate God and the other to venerate men

Because they do despite to the grace of God they have a need to commune with the dead as "workers with familiar spirits" or what they are required to call "patron saints" the legion (3500 and rising) as the number picks up speed and more and more are added as gods that they say men can seek after

1 Corinthians 3:14-16 King James Version (KJV) If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Should not a people seek unto their living God? for the living to the dead after the one manner our father in heaven not seen ?

Why seek after the dead for the dead ?

 

[Deade]

The latter comment in the above is unfortunately a direct lie, but this is not something beyond "Deade" to say. It is a purposed exaggeration in order to bear false witness.



The loathing of others and lack of knowledge (ignorance) in the entire above is remarkable yet unsurprising.

Apparently only those of the ilk of "Deade" are genuine believers, all others he holds in disdain are apparently lost and of the devil.

Most of the old school Protestant movement churches have taken an Amillennial view about the coming Kingdom of God and still hold to that concept. That teaches us Christ is now ruling the Kingdom from heaven and that Satan is already bound in the bottomless pit. He has only been bound from steering whole nations wrong. The 1000 years of the Kingdom does not really mean 1000 years, but it is now going on and has been since the cross. They also claim the Kingdom will not come visually, like Garee claims, and that the two witnesses are figurative of the OT and NT Bibles. This was the general consensus for mainstream Protestantism for centuries. A watering down of the Kingdom message, for sure.

Now we have many different denominations that think differently, but that has only been the case since the mid-1800s. The different movements of faith are Christians finding their way back to the truth. Yet we have people like Garee get on here and tell us God cannot reveal any revelations because everything is written in the word. Sorry to tell you, we have so many different interpretations of scripture some must be false. That truth we are all looking for is called a revelation from the Holy Spirit. That is our teacher.

 

[PS]

Nope. Wrong. Don't put words in my mouth.

You said this: If you believe Tongues IS a legitimate gift then you wouldn't be asking for proof.
Tongues IS a legitimate gift no doubt about that. And if the legitimate gift is working today, then they should be known to be true BEYOND REFUTATION as they were in the early Church.

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/speaking-in-tongues.177501/page-161#post-3787084

The words he spoke were not in any known language but were understood by other interpreters in the congregation. I'm sorry, I cannot oblige

In other words.....a complete, utter and total failure to meet the Acts Ch 2 test.
There were indeed other known (commonly known, commonly used) languages spoken by belivers who themselves did not know that language beforehand.

Fair enough, but I have never thought of the Holy Spirit speaking in an earthly language.

 

[cv5]

You said this: If you believe Tongues IS a legitimate gift then you wouldn't be asking for proof.
Tongues IS a legitimate gift no doubt about that. And if the legitimate gift is working today, then they should be known to be true BEYOND REFUTATION as they were in the early Church.

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/speaking-in-tongues.177501/page-161#post-3787084


Fair enough, but I have never thought of the Holy Spirit speaking in an earthly language.

You said this: If you believe Tongues IS a legitimate gift then you wouldn't be asking for proof.

Wrong. If it is true then I want to be edified by it. It is your obligation to provide what you say know is legitimate tongues. Simple.

Unless you want to refuse the requirement to strengthen the Churches everywhere, and he command to make believers as well.

 

[PS]

"not in any known language but were understood by other interpreters"

Since when do you need interpreters for languages not known? Sounds like typical Pentecostal double talk to me. Can't prove sign gifts? Sign gifts main primary attribute is that they COULD NOT BE DENIED OR FAKED and common folk would understand and know that their origin was from the true Church.

Your comments fail to meet that test as well, which is why I am discarding your claims to tongues as fraudulent.

Red: obviously you don't understand.

 

[cv5]

Red: obviously you don't understand.

Of course I don't. It is absurd on its face. And its unscriptural to boot.

 

[Deade]

You said this: If you believe Tongues IS a legitimate gift then you wouldn't be asking for proof.

Wrong. If it is true then I want to be edified by it. It is your obligation to provide what you say know is legitimate tongues. Simple.

Unless you want to refuse the requirement to strengthen the Churches everywhere, and he command to make believers as well.

That is what the Pharisees wanted: some miracle to "edify" the church. What was Jesus' answer:

Luke 11:29 "And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet."

 

[PS]

Of course I don't. It is absurd on its face. And its unscriptural to boot.

When I converse with other Christians I feel blessed. I'm not getting that from you, so I am going to have to put you on ignore. Sorry. Goodbye.

 

[cv5]

When I converse with other Christians I feel blessed. I'm not getting that from you, so I am going to have to put you on ignore. Sorry. Goodbye.

Well Sir/Madame, all that I can add is that subjective "feeling (s)" are the preeminent test for pretty well everything for the hard-boiled Pentecostals.

Not so much for those seeking truth based on facts and settled doctrine.

 

[Dino246]

Self edification is self righteousness /self righteousness is self edification

All arguments as laws and not theories go around and around. Philosophical theories are subject to change.

Why would a person venerate his own self for the work another performs in them?

What is it they would have that was not freely given to them by God who is not served by human hands. And if it was given to them why would they edify their own self as if it was not given?

You are imposing an extra-biblical idiomatic definition to the text. That is eisegesis, not exegesis, and because of it, you are drawing incorrect conclusions.

You still don't understand what "circular reasoning" is, so here's a link. Please read it, and stop making up your own definitions for terms.

https://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/begging-the-question/

It has nothing to do with "philosophical theories"; rather, it is a fallacy... flawed thinking.

 

[Waggles]

But at any rate....tongues.....legitimate tongues.....are not known to be manifest in the Church today.
If they were, it would be investigated and understood by Church authorities to be true and thusly proclaimed from the pulpit. There would be little to debate.

What nonsense is this?
Church authorities!! Who are they? The Inquisition?
Praying in unknown tongues (also described in scriptures as praying in the Spirit) is done in R. Catholic, Lutheran and
Baptist churches that I know about down under here in Australia.
Many Spirit-filled Christians do not pay heed to the word of God which commands them to come out of worldly religion and
to separate ourselves from others: thus many Spirit-filled Christians who do pray in tongues remain in non-Pentecostal churches
to their own detriment.

I have often been invited by local Catholic and Protestant church people to join in with them in some back room for
group prayer in the Spirit as they belong to churches that deny the full gospel preached by Jesus and the Apostles.
As for me, Jesus took me out of the Roman Catholic faith and personally brought me into a disciplined Bible obedient
Pentecostal church that conducts worship services in full accord with the instructions laid out in 1Corinthians 14.