Speaking in tongues
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Just to say, quoting from 2Co 1:22 for example that tells us "he put his Spirit in our hearts as the first payment that guarantees all that he will give us." (Future)
After we have accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit which is the first payment or instalment of all that he will give us. THEN we need to seek the gifts of the Holy Spirit which include the gift of tongues.
After we have accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit which is the first payment or instalment of all that he will give us. THEN we need to seek the gifts of the Holy Spirit which include the gift of tongues.
Just to say, quoting from 2Co 1:22 for example that tells us "he put his Spirit in our hearts as the first payment that guarantees all that he will give us." (Future)
After we have accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit which is the first payment or instalment of all that he will give us. THEN we need to seek the gifts of the Holy Spirit which include the gift of tongues.
After we have accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit which is the first payment or instalment of all that he will give us. THEN we need to seek the gifts of the Holy Spirit which include the gift of tongues.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_corinthians/1-22.htm
Period
I reject new prophecy or what some call private revelations. What they had in part we today have the perfect or complete. There are no instructions or laws missing by which we could know Him not seen more adequately or at least that I know of . The possibility of new commandments as loving laws is sealed up till the end of time. Why go above that which is written and widen the authority of God?
The Bible does not teach that spiritual gifts were given until the Bible was written down. The word was confimed by signs even when those who heard it likely got it 'second-hand' from the apostles as was likely the case of Stephen or Philip.
Gifts ae also for the edification and profit of the church, not just for evangelism. I Corinthians 12 starts off addressing former idolators and teaches them about spiritual gifts that they might receive. This looks like the description of Gentiles, not those who were disciples of Jesus before the ascension
I notice you will use verses that do not support the point you make when trying ot make a point. Paul's beef with these teachers were not that they were not properly appointed. It was that they taught false doctrines. I would imagine Paul's reaction would have been similarly negative if they had been teaching your views on the resurrection, the church, or ghosts of dead apostles.
In Romans 12, Paul told the one gifted to prophesy to prophesy, the one gifted to teach to teach, and the one gifted to exhort, to exhort. In I Corinthians 14, he says 'every one of you hath a doctrine... hath a revelation....Let all things be done unto edifying.'
Paul also encouraged teaching those who would be teachers. In II Timothy 2:2, he tells Timothy to teach faithful men that they might be able to teach others also.
Gifts ae also for the edification and profit of the church, not just for evangelism. I Corinthians 12 starts off addressing former idolators and teaches them about spiritual gifts that they might receive. This looks like the description of Gentiles, not those who were disciples of Jesus before the ascension
I notice you will use verses that do not support the point you make when trying ot make a point. Paul's beef with these teachers were not that they were not properly appointed. It was that they taught false doctrines. I would imagine Paul's reaction would have been similarly negative if they had been teaching your views on the resurrection, the church, or ghosts of dead apostles.
In Romans 12, Paul told the one gifted to prophesy to prophesy, the one gifted to teach to teach, and the one gifted to exhort, to exhort. In I Corinthians 14, he says 'every one of you hath a doctrine... hath a revelation....Let all things be done unto edifying.'
Paul also encouraged teaching those who would be teachers. In II Timothy 2:2, he tells Timothy to teach faithful men that they might be able to teach others also.
When Paul says that he dies daily, even a child should understand that it is symbolic, same thing with Jesus telling everyone to pick their own cross and follow Him; but when Paul says he will die, be resurrected and get caught together with his 1st century listeners, we know that he is talking of something real. He also says that his death will benefit his listeners- How?
2 Cor 4:
11For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that his life may also be revealed in our mortal body. 12So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.
13It is written: “I believed; therefore I have spoken.” b Since we have that same spirit of c faith, we also believe and therefore speak, 14because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you to himself. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God.
Isn't this Paul's version of what Jesus said, "..it is for your benefit that i go away, for if i don't , the comforter won't come..".
Paul is also saying that his death is for the benefit of his listeners and there's nothing symbolic about this.
Peter also insinuated the same:
2 Peter 1:12So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you now have. 13I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body,14because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 15And I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things.
There is a difference between these statements:
1. And I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things
2. And I will make every effort to see that you will always be able to remember these things after my departure
I do believe in resurrection but what i mean is, the kind of resurrection that you believe in cannot be true.
2 Cor 4:
11For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that his life may also be revealed in our mortal body. 12So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.
13It is written: “I believed; therefore I have spoken.” b Since we have that same spirit of c faith, we also believe and therefore speak, 14because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you to himself. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God.
Isn't this Paul's version of what Jesus said, "..it is for your benefit that i go away, for if i don't , the comforter won't come..".
Paul is also saying that his death is for the benefit of his listeners and there's nothing symbolic about this.
Peter also insinuated the same:
2 Peter 1:12So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you now have. 13I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body,14because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 15And I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things.
There is a difference between these statements:
1. And I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things
2. And I will make every effort to see that you will always be able to remember these things after my departure
I do believe in resurrection but what i mean is, the kind of resurrection that you believe in cannot be true.
The guarantee promised to us:
1Cor 12
(4) Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit,
(5) and there are varieties of ministries, but the same Lord.
(6) There are varieties of results, but it is the same God who produces all the results in everyone.
(7) To each person has been given the ability to manifest the Spirit for the common good.
(8) To one has been given a message of wisdom by the Spirit; to another the ability to speak with knowledge according to the same Spirit;
(9) to another faith by the same Spirit; to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit;
(10) to another miraculous results; to another prophecy; to another the ability to distinguish between spirits; to another various kinds of languages; and to another the interpretation of languages.
(11) But one and the same Spirit produces all these results and gives what he wants to each person.
1Cor 12
(4) Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit,
(5) and there are varieties of ministries, but the same Lord.
(6) There are varieties of results, but it is the same God who produces all the results in everyone.
(7) To each person has been given the ability to manifest the Spirit for the common good.
(8) To one has been given a message of wisdom by the Spirit; to another the ability to speak with knowledge according to the same Spirit;
(9) to another faith by the same Spirit; to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit;
(10) to another miraculous results; to another prophecy; to another the ability to distinguish between spirits; to another various kinds of languages; and to another the interpretation of languages.
(11) But one and the same Spirit produces all these results and gives what he wants to each person.
Yeah, but the bible teaches that the words of Jesus are spirit (life) and that Jesus would speak after His departure, through those that He appointed.
Today, where can we get the words of Jesus?
The words of a man can not be life giving spirit.
It is true that Timothy and many members of the 1st century church taught and prophesied because theirs was to spread the gospel- how else would people get to hear Jesus' words which are life giving spirit? They were not given a mandate to appoint others after them, simple.
Heb 2:1 We must pay the most careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away.2For since the message spoken through angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, 3how shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. 4God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.
A 21st century pastor doesn't qualify as one who heard the Lord more than anyone else because we have the Lords word already in the scripture and we are all on the same level field because we hear the Lord from the scriptures. If anyone appoints themselves over others and tries to give meaning to the words of the Lord then it becomes their own word.
This is so evident physically because we can see divisions in the church today.
Today, where can we get the words of Jesus?
The words of a man can not be life giving spirit.
It is true that Timothy and many members of the 1st century church taught and prophesied because theirs was to spread the gospel- how else would people get to hear Jesus' words which are life giving spirit? They were not given a mandate to appoint others after them, simple.
Heb 2:1 We must pay the most careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away.2For since the message spoken through angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, 3how shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. 4God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.
A 21st century pastor doesn't qualify as one who heard the Lord more than anyone else because we have the Lords word already in the scripture and we are all on the same level field because we hear the Lord from the scriptures. If anyone appoints themselves over others and tries to give meaning to the words of the Lord then it becomes their own word.
This is so evident physically because we can see divisions in the church today.
Maybe, i wouldn't know and can't tell how but when i read the following, i'm always astounded:
Gen 25:7 Abraham lived a total of 175 years. 8 And at a ripe old age he breathed his last and died, old and contented, and was gathered to his people.
Genesis 25:17 Ishmael lived a total of 137 years. Then he breathed his last and died, and was gathered to his people.
Genesis 49:29 Then Jacob instructed them, "I am about to be gathered to my people. Bury me with my fathers in the cave in the field of Ephron the Hittite....When Jacob had finished instructing his sons, he pulled his feet into the bed and breathed his last, and he was gathered to his people.
Deuteronomy 32:50 And there on the mountain that you climb, you will die and be gathered to your people, just as your brother Aaron died on Mount Hor and was gathered to his people.
I initially thought the gathering here is just people coming together to mourn and bury, until i read about Moses- he was buried by angels. And Moses' people should be Aaron's people but the bible suggests they are different people.
And of course this:
1 Cor 15:29 Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?
I don't know what is happening here.
Gen 25:7 Abraham lived a total of 175 years. 8 And at a ripe old age he breathed his last and died, old and contented, and was gathered to his people.
Genesis 25:17 Ishmael lived a total of 137 years. Then he breathed his last and died, and was gathered to his people.
Genesis 49:29 Then Jacob instructed them, "I am about to be gathered to my people. Bury me with my fathers in the cave in the field of Ephron the Hittite....When Jacob had finished instructing his sons, he pulled his feet into the bed and breathed his last, and he was gathered to his people.
Deuteronomy 32:50 And there on the mountain that you climb, you will die and be gathered to your people, just as your brother Aaron died on Mount Hor and was gathered to his people.
I initially thought the gathering here is just people coming together to mourn and bury, until i read about Moses- he was buried by angels. And Moses' people should be Aaron's people but the bible suggests they are different people.
And of course this:
1 Cor 15:29 Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?
I don't know what is happening here.
Read II Corinthians 2 about the Holy Spirit, written mostly to people who had not seen Christ or believed before the ascension.
Do you think it was wrong for missionaries to share the Gospel with people in what is now France, England, Germany, Russia, China, India, Africa, etc? The places were evangelized mainly after the first century?
Is that supposed to prove something abotu spiritual gifts? The readers of the Hebrews were evangelized by those who had heard the Lord directly. That doesn't mean others can't be evangelized by those who heard the word from others, or that other Christians do not receive gifts of the Holy Spirit. Paul wrote about spiritual gifts in I Corinthians 12 to those who had formerly been led about by mute idols. His audience was mostly Gentile, not the disciples who had followed Jesus around before the ascension like the readers of the book of Hebrews. Yet, the Gentiles could have spiritual gifts, too. Paul went into much more detail when addressing those who had not heard the Lord directly. You seem to be reading something into Hebrews 2:3 that is clearly not there, that contradicts the other scriptures.
Do you think it was wrong for missionaries to share the Gospel with people in what is now France, England, Germany, Russia, China, India, Africa, etc? The places were evangelized mainly after the first century?
Is that supposed to prove something abotu spiritual gifts? The readers of the Hebrews were evangelized by those who had heard the Lord directly. That doesn't mean others can't be evangelized by those who heard the word from others, or that other Christians do not receive gifts of the Holy Spirit. Paul wrote about spiritual gifts in I Corinthians 12 to those who had formerly been led about by mute idols. His audience was mostly Gentile, not the disciples who had followed Jesus around before the ascension like the readers of the book of Hebrews. Yet, the Gentiles could have spiritual gifts, too. Paul went into much more detail when addressing those who had not heard the Lord directly. You seem to be reading something into Hebrews 2:3 that is clearly not there, that contradicts the other scriptures.
Or 'gathered to his people' could have become an idiom for dying since they would gather to mourn at deaths. Here in the US if a kid says, "He went to the bathroom in the bushes', we know what that means even if there is no literal bathroom in the bushes. It's an idiom.
None of these verses say anything about the ghost of the deceased being distributed among the living at the death of the deceased.
That does not have anything to do with the spirits of the dead being distributed among the living either.
None of these verses say anything about the ghost of the deceased being distributed among the living at the death of the deceased.
That does not have anything to do with the spirits of the dead being distributed among the living either.
Not only II Corinthians, everything from Mathew to Revelation was written for those who did not witness Jesus and heard His words.
Missionaries? Who appointed them? If they appointed themselves, i know for sure that they make the gospel of no effect.
So, when missionaries go to Africa or wherever, between Premil/ Amil /Post mil, which do they preach and which one is correct? They all can not be correct but they all can be wrong
Between Pretrib/Mid trib/Posttrib, which one do the missionaries preach?
God has lamented several times when people He did not appoint run with their own word to shepherd people. Heb 2 confirms that it is the Lord who preaches the gospel, first by Himself and then through His appointed servants and lastly through the scriptures.
Missionaries? Who appointed them? If they appointed themselves, i know for sure that they make the gospel of no effect.
So, when missionaries go to Africa or wherever, between Premil/ Amil /Post mil, which do they preach and which one is correct? They all can not be correct but they all can be wrong
Between Pretrib/Mid trib/Posttrib, which one do the missionaries preach?
God has lamented several times when people He did not appoint run with their own word to shepherd people. Heb 2 confirms that it is the Lord who preaches the gospel, first by Himself and then through His appointed servants and lastly through the scriptures.
What idiom, the statement is always said "..they breathed their last and died and was gathered to his people..". IOW, the gathering happens after someone is already dead so it can not be an idiom for dying again.
1 Cor 15:29 is a question that you need to answer; don't tell me what you think it is not, answer it if you can.
Q. Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?
And i can help you with the structure of the question. It means if there is resurrection then the practice of baptizing for the dead is totally justified because of the underlying belief. So what is your answer, what will they do?
1 Cor 15:29 is a question that you need to answer; don't tell me what you think it is not, answer it if you can.
Q. Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?
And i can help you with the structure of the question. It means if there is resurrection then the practice of baptizing for the dead is totally justified because of the underlying belief. So what is your answer, what will they do?
This is the danger.
The gospel as much as it saves, it also judges and those that reject it are already condemned.
But worse still, is the issue of false doctrines. A missionary carries his own understanding and transfers to countless number of innocent people who would have been better off not hearing it because where there's no law, there can't be condemnation- the lost souls will be on the teacher's account because they literally guided them to a ditch.
The gospel as much as it saves, it also judges and those that reject it are already condemned.
But worse still, is the issue of false doctrines. A missionary carries his own understanding and transfers to countless number of innocent people who would have been better off not hearing it because where there's no law, there can't be condemnation- the lost souls will be on the teacher's account because they literally guided them to a ditch.
As to your point of people who do not hear the gospel being under no condemnation the following scriptures come to mind:
"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:" Acts 17:30
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" Roman 1:18-20
"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:" Acts 17:30
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" Roman 1:18-20
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What comes to my mind are children, the mentally ill, blind and deaf who can not have equal chance to see anything let alone hear the gospel.
Jesus said He came to save the world and not to condemn it and just like through one man sin came to the whole world, also through one man (Jesus), salvation comes to the whole world- except the ones that reject the good news of salvation.
Rejection means mercy is presented to you but you willingly reject it.
Jesus said He came to save the world and not to condemn it and just like through one man sin came to the whole world, also through one man (Jesus), salvation comes to the whole world- except the ones that reject the good news of salvation.
Rejection means mercy is presented to you but you willingly reject it.
I know of no scripture that specifically addresses the groups of people you mention. However, our God is just; therefore, surely He has a plan. I do wonder though if those unable to make an informed decision fit into the 1,000 year period somehow, as Satan is let loose for a short time to test mankind. But I have no idea and just don't think on such things much.
I do wonder though if those unable to make an informed decision fit into the 1,000 year period somehow, as Satan is let loose for a short time to test mankind. But I have no idea and just don't think on such things much.-
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