Soul sleep is a false doctrine
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https://carm.org/annihilationism/what-is-soul-sleep/
What is soul sleep?
by Matt Slick | Jul 4, 2009 | Annihilationism, Minor Groups & Issues, Questions, Other
"Soul sleep is the teaching that when a person dies that his soul “sleeps” until the time of the future resurrection. In this condition, the person is not aware or conscious. The Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Seventh-day Adventists hold to this doctrine as do most conditionalists (those who say that the wicked are judged and don’t exist anymore). But the Jehovah’s Witnesses teach annihilation. This means that after death a person ceases to exist. At the future resurrection, they maintain that the soul is made again. Basically, it is a re-creation of the individual. The Seventh-day Adventists teach at the soul is simply inert and resides in the memory of God.
The primary verses used to support soul sleep are found in Ecclesiastes:
Ecclesiastes must be understood in the context of its own commentary, which says at the opening of the book, “The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem. 2 “Vanity of vanities,” says the Preacher, “Vanity of vanities! All is vanity.” 3 What advantage does man have in all his work which he does under the sun?” (Eccl. 1:1-3). The writer is telling us how things are from the human perspective, from “under the sun.” He is not telling us doctrinal statements about whether or not the soul continues after death. Besides, it’s a mistake to use the Old Testament to interpret the New Testament. It is the New Testament that sheds light on the Old Testament.
In the New Testament, we see Paul say in 2 Cor. 5:8, “we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.” Paul is clearly telling us that when he dies, he will go and be with the Lord. Furthermore, at the Transfiguration of Jesus (Matt. 17:1-8) we see Moses and Elijah who were alive. There was no soul sleep with them.
Luke 23:42–43 is the account of where Jesus was being crucified. Jesus speaks to the criminal on his right and says “Truly I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.” Jesus was saying that he and the criminal would be together in paradise. Some Respond to this and say that Jesus was emphasizing that he was speaking right then and there, “today.” But, that position can only be held by those who presuppose a form of soul sleep. Of course, it was obvious that Jesus was speaking to him. But Jesus is saying to the criminal that he will be with Jesus in paradise today.
In addition when we look at the account of The Rich Man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31, we clearly see Jesus using the imagery of consciousness after death. If soul sleep is true, what was Jesus doing relating the account of two individuals who were both conscious after their death?
In Revelation 6:10 we see the account of people being conscious after death and asking God, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” This is before the resurrection. Here gain we have another account of consciousness after physical death.
Therefore, the doctrine of soul sleep is incorrect. The soul continues on after death in a conscious state. The wicked will face the judgment of God, and the Christians will dwell in His presence.
"
What is soul sleep?
by Matt Slick | Jul 4, 2009 | Annihilationism, Minor Groups & Issues, Questions, Other
"Soul sleep is the teaching that when a person dies that his soul “sleeps” until the time of the future resurrection. In this condition, the person is not aware or conscious. The Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Seventh-day Adventists hold to this doctrine as do most conditionalists (those who say that the wicked are judged and don’t exist anymore). But the Jehovah’s Witnesses teach annihilation. This means that after death a person ceases to exist. At the future resurrection, they maintain that the soul is made again. Basically, it is a re-creation of the individual. The Seventh-day Adventists teach at the soul is simply inert and resides in the memory of God.
The primary verses used to support soul sleep are found in Ecclesiastes:
- Eccl. 9:5, For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten.”
- Eccl. 12:7, “then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.”
Ecclesiastes must be understood in the context of its own commentary, which says at the opening of the book, “The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem. 2 “Vanity of vanities,” says the Preacher, “Vanity of vanities! All is vanity.” 3 What advantage does man have in all his work which he does under the sun?” (Eccl. 1:1-3). The writer is telling us how things are from the human perspective, from “under the sun.” He is not telling us doctrinal statements about whether or not the soul continues after death. Besides, it’s a mistake to use the Old Testament to interpret the New Testament. It is the New Testament that sheds light on the Old Testament.
In the New Testament, we see Paul say in 2 Cor. 5:8, “we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.” Paul is clearly telling us that when he dies, he will go and be with the Lord. Furthermore, at the Transfiguration of Jesus (Matt. 17:1-8) we see Moses and Elijah who were alive. There was no soul sleep with them.
Luke 23:42–43 is the account of where Jesus was being crucified. Jesus speaks to the criminal on his right and says “Truly I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.” Jesus was saying that he and the criminal would be together in paradise. Some Respond to this and say that Jesus was emphasizing that he was speaking right then and there, “today.” But, that position can only be held by those who presuppose a form of soul sleep. Of course, it was obvious that Jesus was speaking to him. But Jesus is saying to the criminal that he will be with Jesus in paradise today.
In addition when we look at the account of The Rich Man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31, we clearly see Jesus using the imagery of consciousness after death. If soul sleep is true, what was Jesus doing relating the account of two individuals who were both conscious after their death?
In Revelation 6:10 we see the account of people being conscious after death and asking God, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” This is before the resurrection. Here gain we have another account of consciousness after physical death.
Therefore, the doctrine of soul sleep is incorrect. The soul continues on after death in a conscious state. The wicked will face the judgment of God, and the Christians will dwell in His presence.
"
Rev 6:10 is John looking into Heaven and describing what He saw. I doubt anyone was in a earthly state.
You may call it.....soul sleep. I would not in the sense that that is used. Sleep represents ...time....to the earthling....but, not in the spirit world.
I will not classify any part of God's plan.
I know that the Bible tells me that there is no time in the spirit world.
When you understand soul sleep you realise that death is compete death and you have no consciousness in any way while you are dead. but the term sleep is used because all will wake up, in the first or second resurrection.
The time for an unconscious dead person is unknown so it will be like a second from death to the resurrection. If 1000 years go by or if 3000 years pass while you are dead it will be the same. The thing that counts is what we do/believe before we die which will determine which resurrection we experience.
So it doesn't make much difference in regards to time what you believe, A second from death to life for both.
It does make a difference what you believe in regard to other doctrines and your idea of God.
For example = If the unsaved soul is conscious and goes to hades or hell waiting for the second death then God is unfair, because some wait in hell for 7 thousand years, and some for 1 thousand years.
If you believe that the dead are now living as a spirit it will affect our experience now.
If the dead are completely dead they can't influence us.
If the dead are not really dead but alive in another form their is a possibility that the dead can speak to us and influence our lives. This leaves a huge door open for Satan and his demons to influence us (the spirits talked to me and told me to do ....., my dead father talked to me and told me ......) Can you see the way Satan can use this belief to lie and control us.
The only Spirits that can communicate with us are the demons of satan or Gods and his holy angels.
The time for an unconscious dead person is unknown so it will be like a second from death to the resurrection. If 1000 years go by or if 3000 years pass while you are dead it will be the same. The thing that counts is what we do/believe before we die which will determine which resurrection we experience.
So it doesn't make much difference in regards to time what you believe, A second from death to life for both.
It does make a difference what you believe in regard to other doctrines and your idea of God.
For example = If the unsaved soul is conscious and goes to hades or hell waiting for the second death then God is unfair, because some wait in hell for 7 thousand years, and some for 1 thousand years.
If you believe that the dead are now living as a spirit it will affect our experience now.
If the dead are completely dead they can't influence us.
If the dead are not really dead but alive in another form their is a possibility that the dead can speak to us and influence our lives. This leaves a huge door open for Satan and his demons to influence us (the spirits talked to me and told me to do ....., my dead father talked to me and told me ......) Can you see the way Satan can use this belief to lie and control us.
The only Spirits that can communicate with us are the demons of satan or Gods and his holy angels.
Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
The rich man is not depicted as being dead is he? He still cannot affect "our experience" because he is not allowed to contact anyone who is on the Earth.
If the dead can not contact the living i don't see any point in talking about this any more... The truth will be revealed when we die.
If the dead are completely unconscious they can't talk to the living, and if the dead are conscious and can't talk to us because God stops them it will not affect us.
But please hold onto this point (The dead don't talk to us), because Satan will use spirits of the dead to trap (trick) people and cause many to believe a lie.
If the dead are completely unconscious they can't talk to the living, and if the dead are conscious and can't talk to us because God stops them it will not affect us.
But please hold onto this point (The dead don't talk to us), because Satan will use spirits of the dead to trap (trick) people and cause many to believe a lie.
Personally I find that Christ already had the say on this. John chapter 8 the whole chapter is a good one and so much we can pick up from it. However, in verse 56, Christ had said that Abraham had rejoiced and was glad to have seen his day. Just as Simeon had seen it as well as Anna before they had passed on. Abraham saw the day of promise, the incarnation, the arrival of the Christ. Abraham saw it and was glad. That speaks to even though he passed from this mortal plane he was still fully aware and conscious.
Points to as well that the rich man and Lazarus, Abrahams bosom was Christ speaking from a point of fact and was not parabolic.
Points to as well that the rich man and Lazarus, Abrahams bosom was Christ speaking from a point of fact and was not parabolic.
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If we can answer one question correctly, all the other questions about death and the soul will be easy to answer. The really important issue is this: What kind of inherent nature does man possess? How did God create him? Does he have a mortal nature or an immortal nature? According to the dictionary, the word “mortal” means “subject to death,” and the word “immortal” means “not subject to death.” Simply stated then, we are asking whether God created man with a nature that could die or with the power of an endless life.
Job 4:17, “Shall mortal man be more just than God? Shall a man be more pure than his maker?” There is the word we are looking for! Man is mortal. He is subject to death. God did not make him without the capacity to deteriorate and die. The fact is, only God has that inherent power of eternal existence. He is immortal. And the only time that word is used in the Bible, it refers to God. “Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen” (1 Timothy 1:17).
At this point someone may raise another question about the subject of immortality. Is it possible that man has a mortal body but an immortal soul living in the tabernacle of flesh? Perhaps the “real” person is not the body at all but the undying soul-entity dwelling within the mortal body. We need not puzzle over this point, because it is concisely settled by a number of Bible texts.
“Behold, all souls are mine: as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die” (Ezekiel 18:4).
Matthew 10:28. “And fear not them which kill the body ... but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”
The soul can die, therefore it cannot be immortal by nature.
How upsetting it is to learn that in all the 1700 biblical occurrences of the words “soul” and “spirit” not once are they referred to as being immortal or undying.
Where, then, did the doctrine of an immortal soul come from? One thing is certain: it did not originate in the Scriptures. The truth is that it came directly from pagan tradition and mythology. The ancient Chinese ancestor-worship was rooted in the belief that the soul did not die. Egyptian pyramid hieroglyphics reveal that the doctrine of a naturally immortal soul was basic to their worship of the sun god. In India the Hindus believe strongly in reincarnation and transmi- gration of the soul. Darkest African voodoo ceremonies are built around the concept of an undying soul.
There is not one text that supports such a teaching in the Christian Bible; nevertheless, the Word does tell us how the doctrine got started and who preached the first sermon on the subject. Read Genesis 3:1-4, “Now the serpent was more subtile. ...... And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die.”
Job 4:17, “Shall mortal man be more just than God? Shall a man be more pure than his maker?” There is the word we are looking for! Man is mortal. He is subject to death. God did not make him without the capacity to deteriorate and die. The fact is, only God has that inherent power of eternal existence. He is immortal. And the only time that word is used in the Bible, it refers to God. “Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen” (1 Timothy 1:17).
At this point someone may raise another question about the subject of immortality. Is it possible that man has a mortal body but an immortal soul living in the tabernacle of flesh? Perhaps the “real” person is not the body at all but the undying soul-entity dwelling within the mortal body. We need not puzzle over this point, because it is concisely settled by a number of Bible texts.
“Behold, all souls are mine: as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die” (Ezekiel 18:4).
Matthew 10:28. “And fear not them which kill the body ... but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”
The soul can die, therefore it cannot be immortal by nature.
How upsetting it is to learn that in all the 1700 biblical occurrences of the words “soul” and “spirit” not once are they referred to as being immortal or undying.
Where, then, did the doctrine of an immortal soul come from? One thing is certain: it did not originate in the Scriptures. The truth is that it came directly from pagan tradition and mythology. The ancient Chinese ancestor-worship was rooted in the belief that the soul did not die. Egyptian pyramid hieroglyphics reveal that the doctrine of a naturally immortal soul was basic to their worship of the sun god. In India the Hindus believe strongly in reincarnation and transmi- gration of the soul. Darkest African voodoo ceremonies are built around the concept of an undying soul.
There is not one text that supports such a teaching in the Christian Bible; nevertheless, the Word does tell us how the doctrine got started and who preached the first sermon on the subject. Read Genesis 3:1-4, “Now the serpent was more subtile. ...... And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die.”
The clearest and most concise inspired definition of death was written by Solomon, “Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it” (Ecclesiastes 12:7).
Immediately we are struck by the word “return.” After death everything seems to go back from whence it came. The dust returns to the earth from which it was taken, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. Death is just the opposite of creation.
It is easy for us to picture the process of bodily decay and decomposition.
But what about the spirit which goes back to God? That is not so easy to understand. There is not a man in the world who can explain it with human wisdom. Nevertheless, many verses in the Bible throw light on this crucial point. James wrote, “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also” (James 2:26). The word “spirit” has a marginal reference which reads, “or breath.” This is very important. The actual root word in the Greek is “pneuma,” a word which means “breath” or “air.” We take our English word “pneumonia” from pneuma because it is a disease of the lungs, or of breathing.
This brings us to a very interesting conclusion. The words “breath” and “spirit” are often used interchangeably in the Bible. Job said, “All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils” (Job 27:3). Now, it doesn’t take a high degree of intelligence to know that Job was describing the same thing by the words “breath” and “spirit” Man has only breath in his nostrils. In fact, that is what God breathed into man’s nostrils at the time of creation. “And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul” (Genesis 2:7).
Now the picture begins to clear up. When Solomon described the spirit returning to God, he had to be referring to the breath, because that was what God gave in the beginning, and therefore, it was the only thing that could now “return” to the One who gave it. The marginal note for Genesis 7:22 refers to the breath of life as “the breath of the spirit of life.”
The psalmist describes death in these words, “Thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust. Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created” (Psalm 104:29, 30). Here the order is reversed, and their breath returns to God at death. Solomon said the spirit returns. Here God gives the spirit to create, but Genesis says He gave the breath to create. It only makes sense when we understand that the two words are used interchangeably and mean the same thing.
He “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul” (Genesis 2:7). Do not miss the significance of these words—they are often misconstrued. God did not put a soul into the body. He added only one thing—breath or spirit. Then, as a result of the body and breath uniting, man BECAME a soul.
Immediately we are struck by the word “return.” After death everything seems to go back from whence it came. The dust returns to the earth from which it was taken, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. Death is just the opposite of creation.
It is easy for us to picture the process of bodily decay and decomposition.
But what about the spirit which goes back to God? That is not so easy to understand. There is not a man in the world who can explain it with human wisdom. Nevertheless, many verses in the Bible throw light on this crucial point. James wrote, “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also” (James 2:26). The word “spirit” has a marginal reference which reads, “or breath.” This is very important. The actual root word in the Greek is “pneuma,” a word which means “breath” or “air.” We take our English word “pneumonia” from pneuma because it is a disease of the lungs, or of breathing.
This brings us to a very interesting conclusion. The words “breath” and “spirit” are often used interchangeably in the Bible. Job said, “All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils” (Job 27:3). Now, it doesn’t take a high degree of intelligence to know that Job was describing the same thing by the words “breath” and “spirit” Man has only breath in his nostrils. In fact, that is what God breathed into man’s nostrils at the time of creation. “And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul” (Genesis 2:7).
Now the picture begins to clear up. When Solomon described the spirit returning to God, he had to be referring to the breath, because that was what God gave in the beginning, and therefore, it was the only thing that could now “return” to the One who gave it. The marginal note for Genesis 7:22 refers to the breath of life as “the breath of the spirit of life.”
The psalmist describes death in these words, “Thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust. Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created” (Psalm 104:29, 30). Here the order is reversed, and their breath returns to God at death. Solomon said the spirit returns. Here God gives the spirit to create, but Genesis says He gave the breath to create. It only makes sense when we understand that the two words are used interchangeably and mean the same thing.
He “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul” (Genesis 2:7). Do not miss the significance of these words—they are often misconstrued. God did not put a soul into the body. He added only one thing—breath or spirit. Then, as a result of the body and breath uniting, man BECAME a soul.
Millions have accepted the false, traditional view that God put a soul into the body to create man. This is based entirely upon the common, erroneous doctrine of all non-Christian religions. In the Bible, except in poetical or allegorical usage, the soul does not go in and out of the body; neither does it have an independent existence outside of the body. Because the Greek word “psuche,” meaning “life,” has sometimes been translated as “soul” in our King James Version, some have drawn wrong conclusions; but only because they apply a false definition to the word “soul.” Millions have been taught that the soul possesses a natural immortality, and every time they read or hear the word they assume something that is totally false and unbiblical. Not even one time in the Bible is the soul referred to as being immortal or undying.
A simple illustration = Let us liken the body to a light bulb. The electric current flowing into that bulb represents the breath of life which God put into the body, and the light itself will represent the soul which man became after the breath joined the body. Now we press the button and turn the light off. What has happened? The current has left the bulb, just as the breath leaves the body at death. Now where is the light? It simply ceased to exist when the current separated from the bulb. Then let us ask, where is the soul when the breath separates from the body? There simply is no soul until, in the resurrection, God restores the breath of life to the recreated body.
That's only one definition of a soul. The other is the soul INSIDE of a body.
1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Here the soul is not the body. This destroys the Christadelphian soul death nonsense.
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One more point.....
Consider how confusing it would be if rewards and punishments are now being applied. What purpose would be served by a resurrection? Why even have a resurrection? Obviously each soul would already have a determined fate, and the farce of some make-believe final judgment would be totally meaningless. All the pious assurances heard at funerals about loved ones in heaven are simply repetitions of Satan’s first lie to the human family. The portrayal of imaginary, immaterial souls flying away from the body at death is not a source of comfort to grieving relatives. Paul described the time when the righteous dead will be with the Lord in 1 Thessalonians 4: 16-18, and concluded with these words, “Wherefore comfort one another with these words.”
Here is a perfect, inspired picture of true comfort, and we need to understand clearly what word Paul was referring to that would bring such comfort. The two previous verses give us the words, “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
Paul here describes without any limitation the way and means by which we go to be with the Lord. Don’t overlook the word “so” in his statement. It means “in this way.” By that little word Paul precluded every other way of being with the Lord. When he described the coming of Jesus and the resurrection of the saints as being the manner and means of being with the Lord, he automatically excluded all other means of doing it. Then he admonishes us to “comfort one another with these words.”
Consider how confusing it would be if rewards and punishments are now being applied. What purpose would be served by a resurrection? Why even have a resurrection? Obviously each soul would already have a determined fate, and the farce of some make-believe final judgment would be totally meaningless. All the pious assurances heard at funerals about loved ones in heaven are simply repetitions of Satan’s first lie to the human family. The portrayal of imaginary, immaterial souls flying away from the body at death is not a source of comfort to grieving relatives. Paul described the time when the righteous dead will be with the Lord in 1 Thessalonians 4: 16-18, and concluded with these words, “Wherefore comfort one another with these words.”
Here is a perfect, inspired picture of true comfort, and we need to understand clearly what word Paul was referring to that would bring such comfort. The two previous verses give us the words, “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
Paul here describes without any limitation the way and means by which we go to be with the Lord. Don’t overlook the word “so” in his statement. It means “in this way.” By that little word Paul precluded every other way of being with the Lord. When he described the coming of Jesus and the resurrection of the saints as being the manner and means of being with the Lord, he automatically excluded all other means of doing it. Then he admonishes us to “comfort one another with these words.”
I pray God your whole spirit G4151 and soul G5590 and body
Spirit = G4151
pneuma
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.
Soul = G5590
psuchē
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.
Remember not to presume that it means something.... i don't see how paul is saying the soul lives on after death.
Spirit = G4151
pneuma
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.
Soul = G5590
psuchē
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.
Remember not to presume that it means something.... i don't see how paul is saying the soul lives on after death.