Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

[Waggles]

Ok I have a serious question. I personally believe in the gifts of the spirit, yes even speaking in tongues as qualified by the text of scripture.
Where are the texts that support "holy laughter", " drunk in the spirit", body convulsions, and running wildly around the church building?

Yes you are right - these outrageous behaviours are a shame and embarrassing to all.
But as an outsider to U.S. America I can't help but believe that religion in America trends towards the strange and peculiar.
From your Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses, the Waco tragedy, your many cults and sects, false Christs gathering disciples around
themselves in closed communities, the constant reinventing of Christian doctrine, worship reduced to praise music …
Pretty well all that is out of order in charismatic churches I am sure start in the U.S.A. except for the whacky Toronto blessing nonsense.

BUT not all is lost; there are still faithful Pentecostal churches that abide in the word of God and follow obediently the
scriptures and instructions on orderly worship and walking with the Lord.

 

[Waggles]

When does a person receive Holy Spirit baptism? Does Holy Spirit baptism require evidence by tongues?

YES - it is scripture, history and confirmed by God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

YES - it is scripture, history and confirmed by God.

Remember people. We not only need to be baptized in water, but we have to speak in tongues otherwise, we are not saved.

This is false gospel 101!

 

[SpoonJuly]

interesting

so you believe that you are ok because someone is going to get it more than you?

how about lying? do you ever feel convicted of that?

Waggles has said none of the things you attribute to him

your gospel is no gospel at all. in fact, I don't think most of you cessationists know what the actual gospel is or how it is to be delivered to those God sends it to

4 For we know, brothers and sisters loved by God, that he has chosen you, 5 because our gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction. I Thess. 1

see the above? the gospel is not just words but also power and the conviction of the Holy Spirit

when the true biblical gospel is preached, God will bless it with the moving of the Holy Spirit among those gathered

this powerless, Holy Spirit-less, conviction-less and sit on the pew and I am saved lie that is preached by some here is not the gospel at all

a one hour gotta break it up at noon for lunch meeting is not what God intended

When I stand before my Lord, it will be as a sinner saved by Grace. Period. Nothing added. It is all about What Jesus did. He died that I might live. He did it all. He did not need my help. My works are as dirty rags.
Anything good in my life is Jesus working through me.
I know this because the moment I was saved the Holy Spirit came into me and has been president every moment since that night in 1962.
Now when Waggman says that to believe that the Holy Spirit comes the moment of salvation is rubbish and that doctrine came from a cereal box---
He will be called on it. That is Heresy and damnable words coming from his mouth.
Now I have been scolded for personal attacks while this person is allowed to continue with his foolishness.
So be it.
Those who seem to believe that that is not enough, that one must be baptized, that one must keep this commandment or that commandment, must be "Baptized by the Holy Spirit" with evidence of speaking in tongues, and many other great works should read very carefully Matthew 7:22-24.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

When I stand before my Lord, it will be as a sinner saved by Grace. Period. Nothing added. It is all about What Jesus did. He died that I might live. He did it all. He did not need my help. My works are as dirty rags.
Anything good in my life is Jesus working through me.
I know this because the moment I was saved the Holy Spirit came into me and has been president every moment since that night in 1962.
Now when Waggman says that to believe that the Holy Spirit comes the moment of salvation is rubbish and that doctrine came from a cereal box---
He will be called on it. That is Heresy and damnable words coming from his mouth.
Now I have been scolded for personal attacks while this person is allowed to continue with his foolishness.
So be it.
Those who seem to believe that that is not enough, that one must be baptized, that one must keep this commandment or that commandment, must be "Baptized by the Holy Spirit" with evidence of speaking in tongues, and many other great works should read very carefully Matthew 7:22-24.

Will wait to see how many of these charismatic believers will call him out.. Or just let him go because he believes as they do.

Or os it that they believe as he does. Yet deny it?

 

[FollowHisSteps]

When I stand before my Lord, it will be as a sinner saved by Grace. Period. Nothing added. It is all about What Jesus did. He died that I might live. He did it all. He did not need my help. My works are as dirty rags.
Anything good in my life is Jesus working through me.
I know this because the moment I was saved the Holy Spirit came into me and has been president every moment since that night in 1962.
Now when Waggman says that to believe that the Holy Spirit comes the moment of salvation is rubbish and that doctrine came from a cereal box---
He will be called on it. That is Heresy and damnable words coming from his mouth.
Now I have been scolded for personal attacks while this person is allowed to continue with his foolishness.
So be it.
Those who seem to believe that that is not enough, that one must be baptized, that one must keep this commandment or that commandment, must be "Baptized by the Holy Spirit" with evidence of speaking in tongues, and many other great works should read very carefully Matthew 7:22-24.

I have some sympathy for believers who come to faith, and then later are filled with the Spirit
in such a way it feels like they never knew the Lord before. Now looking back I realise this is
really about infilling of the Holy Spirit rather than the first anointing. We cannot come to faith
without Gods anointing.

And my take is, I am not going to persuade someone they are wrong, but if they love the Lord
and walk in His ways with the Spirit, amen, He will teach them in time. The bigger test is loving
brothers and sisters in Christ who express their faith differently, and working through it in the Lord.

Those who insist on tongues, for me are just crazy, it is always the heart transformation and then
everything flows as the Lord sows and directs.

 

[wolfwint]

When I stand before my Lord, it will be as a sinner saved by Grace. Period. Nothing added. It is all about What Jesus did. He died that I might live. He did it all. He did not need my help. My works are as dirty rags.
Anything good in my life is Jesus working through me.
I know this because the moment I was saved the Holy Spirit came into me and has been president every moment since that night in 1962.
Now when Waggman says that to believe that the Holy Spirit comes the moment of salvation is rubbish and that doctrine came from a cereal box---
He will be called on it. That is Heresy and damnable words coming from his mouth.
Now I have been scolded for personal attacks while this person is allowed to continue with his foolishness.
So be it.
Those who seem to believe that that is not enough, that one must be baptized, that one must keep this commandment or that commandment, must be "Baptized by the Holy Spirit" with evidence of speaking in tongues, and many other great works should read very carefully Matthew 7:22-24.

Will you really say, that someone has not the Holy Spirit, if he is not speaking in tongues as evidence?

 

[wolfwint]

When I stand before my Lord, it will be as a sinner saved by Grace. Period. Nothing added. It is all about What Jesus did. He died that I might live. He did it all. He did not need my help. My works are as dirty rags.
Anything good in my life is Jesus working through me.
I know this because the moment I was saved the Holy Spirit came into me and has been president every moment since that night in 1962.
Now when Waggman says that to believe that the Holy Spirit comes the moment of salvation is rubbish and that doctrine came from a cereal box---
He will be called on it. That is Heresy and damnable words coming from his mouth.
Now I have been scolded for personal attacks while this person is allowed to continue with his foolishness.
So be it.
Those who seem to believe that that is not enough, that one must be baptized, that one must keep this commandment or that commandment, must be "Baptized by the Holy Spirit" with evidence of speaking in tongues, and many other great works should read very carefully Matthew 7:22-24.

Sorry, forgot my last post. I read your post wrong.
I agree with you!

 

[wolfwint]

YES - it is scripture, history and confirmed by God.

You are wrong, brother. In the scripture this was not taught and also not in the history. Nobody can show me an single vers in the bible where tjis wad taught to the believers and you have also no single proof from the history.
This was taught and practised first in 1901.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Yes you are right - these outrageous behaviours are a shame and embarrassing to all.
But as an outsider to U.S. America I can't help but believe that religion in America trends towards the strange and peculiar.
From your Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses, the Waco tragedy, your many cults and sects, false Christs gathering disciples around
themselves in closed communities, the constant reinventing of Christian doctrine, worship reduced to praise music …
Pretty well all that is out of order in charismatic churches I am sure start in the U.S.A. except for the whacky Toronto blessing nonsense.

BUT not all is lost; there are still faithful Pentecostal churches that abide in the word of God and follow obediently the
scriptures and instructions on orderly worship and walking with the Lord.

Yes, funny thing about liberty and a broad range of diversity, it produces some strange stuff.
I am a Baptist that believes in the gifts of the spirit, and our pastor preached about it this past Sunday. About being filled with the Holy Spirit being power to overcome and lead the Christian Life.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

YES - it is scripture, history and confirmed by God.

Actually Paul spoke of many who were filled with the spirit that don't speak in tongues. He also spoke of Christians who had no gifting from the Holy spirit at all.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

When I stand before my Lord, it will be as a sinner saved by Grace. Period. Nothing added. It is all about What Jesus did. He died that I might live. He did it all. He did not need my help. My works are as dirty rags.
Anything good in my life is Jesus working through me.
I know this because the moment I was saved the Holy Spirit came into me and has been president every moment since that night in 1962.
Now when Waggman says that to believe that the Holy Spirit comes the moment of salvation is rubbish and that doctrine came from a cereal box---
He will be called on it. That is Heresy and damnable words coming from his mouth.
Now I have been scolded for personal attacks while this person is allowed to continue with his foolishness.
So be it.
Those who seem to believe that that is not enough, that one must be baptized, that one must keep this commandment or that commandment, must be "Baptized by the Holy Spirit" with evidence of speaking in tongues, and many other great works should read very carefully Matthew 7:22-24.

not as a faithful servant who is told 'well done?'

what is it with you folks that you seem to think all you have to do is say you are a Christian and everyone should take your word for it

no fruit no faith

just sarcastic and untruthful attacks and then you seem to expect no one is going to call you on it

there is only one Savior and He has only one gospel

what you and other cessationists are preaching is not the gospel

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Actually Paul spoke of many who were filled with the spirit that don't speak in tongues. He also spoke of Christians who had no gifting from the Holy spirit at all.

references for that please

 

[7seasrekeyed]

This is a favorite false accusation against those who understand when scripture says tongues will end that they have ended. Yes the Holy Spirit is still filling and moving in hearts that are empty of self and ready to be used of God. Speaking the truth is not evil.

There is hope for you as long as the Holy Spirit continues to convict your heart. God is still calling those who have strayed from Him.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

only because it is the truth and not false at all

that is why it gets repeated

scripture does not say tongues will end before Christ returns

the Bible is not the perfect. if you think it's perfect, why do you even argue among yourselves?

you teach your own religion and it is not biblical Christianity

you are posting defenseless unbiblical renderings of your own imagination

 

[7seasrekeyed]

She has a habit of claiming I misrepresent people. When in fact is is her doing the misrepresenting.

she who shall not be named, eh?

LOL! we all know who the she is

you simply cannot leave a person alone but must dig and poke and talk about people to other people in the face of the person about whom you are gossiping

this is your MO

you and several others in the not by works thread do this repeatedly to people until they leave the thread because of the inability to express anything without the 'gang' mocking and twisting what they said

you bear false witness against me saying I have any habit that pertains to how you post

and you know it

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I have some sympathy for believers who come to faith, and then later are filled with the Spirit
in such a way it feels like they never knew the Lord before. Now looking back I realise this is
really about infilling of the Holy Spirit rather than the first anointing. We cannot come to faith
without Gods anointing.

And my take is, I am not going to persuade someone they are wrong, but if they love the Lord
and walk in His ways with the Spirit, amen, He will teach them in time. The bigger test is loving
brothers and sisters in Christ who express their faith differently, and working through it in the Lord.

Those who insist on tongues, for me are just crazy, it is always the heart transformation and then
everything flows as the Lord sows and directs.

that is the crux of these threads on tongues

no actual discussion will be forthcoming and no one here has said they insist on tongues to my knowledge

we are told that we do and we are told many other inaccurate things

frankly, I am not for love love love without truth and the desire to be truthful about the reason one constantly goes out of their way to post negative and often hateful comments to those who do speak in tongues

if God didn't think much about it, perhaps He might have manifested the Holy Spirit other than He did on the day of Pentecost

 

[eternally-gratefull]

she who shall not be named, eh?

LOL! we all know who the she is

you simply cannot leave a person alone but must dig and poke and talk about people to other people in the face of the person about whom you are gossiping

this is your MO

you and several others in the not by works thread do this repeatedly to people until they leave the thread because of the inability to express anything without the 'gang' mocking and twisting what they said

you bear false witness against me saying I have any habit that pertains to how you post

and you know it

I do not mention you by name for a reason. The only reason I even saw what you said is I had to open a post to see who someone was responding to. And I responded in kind.

Either way, You have not changed one bit,

I proved you to be a liar. (I showed three people who believed in salvation by water baptism) And you did not even acknowledge that, You had to continue your slanderous ways.

I told you to leave me on ignore. As usual. You can’t So you get what you deserve.

Either way, You just exposed yourself to the whole room.

Once again, I recommend you put me on ignore..

 

[RickyZ]

Ok I have a serious question. I personally believe in the gifts of the spirit, yes even speaking in tongues as qualified by the text of scripture.

Where are the texts that support "holy laughter", " drunk in the spirit", body convulsions, and running wildly around the church building?

There aren't any.

 

[Waggles]

Actually Paul spoke of many who were filled with the spirit that don't speak in tongues. He also spoke of Christians who had no gifting from the Holy spirit at all.

NO incorrect understanding.
You are confusing the obligatory sign given when a convert receives (is baptized in) the Holy Spirit - such shall speak in a new tongue
with Chapters 12 and 14 1Corinthians is about the distribution and operation of the nine gifts of the Holy Spirit in the church for
the comfort and edifying of the body of Christ.

5: I would that ye all spoke with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesies than he that speaks with
tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
1Corinthians 14:
28 And God has set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
1Corinthians 12:

In 1Corinthians 12 Paul is writing of the distribution of the nine gifts of the Holy Spirit to individuals in the Spirit-filled church
and how they make use of these gifts.
First, for their own edifying as a member of the body often relating to verse 28 above;
Second, no one exercises all nine gifts in the church.
For example, I have never ever exercised any of the three voice gifts in a church meeting (although I like everybody else can
pray in tongues for my own prayers) - but I have exercised and benefitted from the gifts of knowledge, discerning of spirits,
faith, healing and working of miracles when needed.

 

[RickyZ]

Actually Paul spoke of many who were filled with the spirit that don't speak in tongues. He also spoke of Christians who had no gifting from the Holy spirit at all.

Hmmmm. Paul did speak of many filled who didn't speak, and he also said we won't all speak. So yeah to claim everyone has to is baloney.

But he did also say we are all part of the Body - and that each part has a function. And to perform a function of the body requires a gift, right? Not all will speak, not all will heal, not all will have knowledge ... not all will be a hand , not all will be a foot, not all will be a brain (ok had to throw that in for levity). But all will be SOMETHING. And likewise, all should manifest SOME gift.

Keeping in mind that the vast majority of the true gifts occur in intimate settings, not under the circus tent; so not publicly displaying a gift does not mean they are not there in a person.