Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

[stonesoffire]

I'm not saying that the disciples learned languages at Pentecost but I am saying that what you guys claim to do in your church is not what happened at Pentecost.

What I see by the words presented here on the forum is Pentecostals desire for power. There is an obsession with power to do stuff. That is not the reason Christ came in the likeness of sinful flesh. Christ came to suffer and to die to redeem sinful mankind. Pentecostals covet power to the degree that they invent gifts that they can have so they feel powerful. Prayer tongues is probably the greatest of these invented gifts that I see here on the forums.

My experience and what I read in the word of God tends to have me believe that those who desire the most to wield power are the least likely to be given power.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

When you all who are anti tongues ask what is the reason to receive these gifts, and we speak the reason, you then criticize? Is that not hypocrisy?


Act_1:8　 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Jesus states what He wants His body on earth to have, and why we should have it. The power to witness and demonstrate His power. Not ours. We have none of our own. It's Jesus still in action here.

He whipped the devil, did a knockout punch, and then left, but did not leave us as orphans. He gave us Father and the same power as He walked in, the Spirit of Father. One. Called Holy Spirit. Why? To clean up His world of the mess the devil created. Called knowledge of man.

Seeking to know about, rather then to know. Know what? It's know who. And then what? And the power of His resurrection!

 

[Dino246]

Hi Dino

Its not my intention to accuse .I don't see anyone walking on water. Its my goal to defend the faith that defends all of Christianity . The faith of (coming from as the one source) Christ, that works in us, it is.... not of us. He has given us his armor to put on and keep on. to defend us from the arrows of lies of the evil one

Same question. What do you say the sign of tongues confirms? Belief in respect to prophecy to include the manner of tongues or unbelief...as in yet for all that they still refused to beleive prophecy after any tongue. It has to confirm something. I would think.

A sign as a curse or a sign as a blessing?

The "sign" in Isaiah 28 was for the unbelieving Jews. It all makes sense when you don't try to import a prophesy to a context where it doesn't fit. The gift is still operative as it was in Acts 10, where there were no unbelieving Jews present.

 

[notuptome]

violence LOL hahahahha is that a translation-like the one you used for "Baptized" in Acts 2:38 aka sunken ship? I can say you never claimed to be a teacher, but you did claim you have never been corrected in the word of God.

You should know the different Greek words for baptism. If you are going to build a doctrine you need to have a solid foundation.

I have stated that you have never shown me from the word of God where I was wrong. I know it insulted your pride but I cannot change the truth for the sake of your pride.

You still seek power through gifts of the Holy Spirit when the disciples never sought power.

You laugh when you should be ashamed.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

The "sign" in Isaiah 28 was for the unbelieving Jews. It all makes sense when you don't try to import a prophesy to a context where it doesn't fit. The gift is still operative as it was in Acts 10, where there were no unbelieving Jews present.

It was Paul that incorporated Isaiah 28 into 1 Cor 14.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Wansvic]

The Greek word you want for water baptism is bapto the word in Acts 2:38 means to submerge like a sunken ship. That of course implies not returning to the surface. We are submerged in the Holy Spirit and do not come out but remain submerged.

I know you are in error and that you do seek gifts to reassure yourself that you are saved. You need to trust Gods word not experiences. The heart of man is desperately wicked and who can trust it.

Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The following is the actual information pertaining to the word baptism:
Greek word - baptizo (bap-tid'-zo); from a derivative of NT:911; to immerse, submerge; to make overwhelmed (i.e. fully wet); used only (in the N. T.) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

It would make no sense for Acts 2:38 to reference the Holy Ghost baptism twice. We know that the gift of the Holy Ghost is in fact the baptism of the Holy Ghost. (Luke 11:13)

The command to be water baptized and filled with the Holy Ghost on the Day of Pentecost is followed again on three occasions. In each case the individuals were water baptized in the name of the Jesus Christ per Peter's initial instructions. (Acts 8:12 -18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6,)

Water baptism was also necessary for Paul (Acts 22:16), Eunuch (Acts 8:35-40), and the Jailer and his family (Acts 16:28-33 )

 

[CS1]

You should know the different Greek words for baptism. If you are going to build a doctrine you need to have a solid foundation.

I have stated that you have never shown me from the word of God where I was wrong. I know it insulted your pride but I cannot change the truth for the sake of your pride.

You still seek power through gifts of the Holy Spirit when the disciples never sought power.

You laugh when you should be ashamed.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

you should know that context where the word is used means something. The text of Acts 2:38 is not sinking ships. the word Baptized has to do with a two-fold application
Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

the language we see is Repent, (the comma tell us there is more to do), be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, (Oh another comma) and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

for your understanding to be correct why did not Peter just say repent and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit? or just omit the later part and use baptized?

You have been shown right here yet again you are in error. God bless.

 

[CS1]

You should know the different Greek words for baptism. If you are going to build a doctrine you need to have a solid foundation.

I have stated that you have never shown me from the word of God where I was wrong. I know it insulted your pride but I cannot change the truth for the sake of your pride.

You still seek power through gifts of the Holy Spirit when the disciples never sought power.

You laugh when you should be ashamed.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I do not seek power please stop lying will you. Are you trying to use some kind of prophetic word? I have never sought power I have been given power LOL. it the Power of God. the Gospel is the Power of God.

 

[notuptome]

The following is the actual information pertaining to the word baptism:
Greek word - baptizo (bap-tid'-zo); from a derivative of NT:911; to immerse, submerge; to make overwhelmed (i.e. fully wet); used only (in the N. T.) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

It would make no sense for Acts 2:38 to reference the Holy Ghost baptism twice. We know that the gift of the Holy Ghost is in fact the baptism of the Holy Ghost. (Luke 11:13)

The command to be water baptized and filled with the Holy Ghost on the Day of Pentecost is followed again on three occasions. In each case the individuals were water baptized in the name of the Jesus Christ per Peter's initial instructions. (Acts 8:12 -18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6,)

Water baptism was also necessary for Paul (Acts 22:16), Eunuch (Acts 8:35-40), and the Jailer and his family (Acts 16:28-33 )

Water baptism is reserved only for those who have been born again by the power of the Holy Spirit. One is no more saved after water baptism than they were before water baptism.

907 βαπτίζω baptizo bap-tid’-zo
from a derivative of 911; verb; TDNT-1:529,92; {See TDNT 123 }
AV-baptize (76), wash 2, baptist 1, baptized + 2258 1; 80
1) to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
2) to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one’s self, bathe
3) to overwhelm
++++
Not to be confused with 911, bapto. The clearest example that shows
the meaning of baptizo is a text from the Greek poet and physician Nicander, who lived about 200 B.C. It is a recipe for making pickles and is helpful because it uses both words. Nicander says that in order to make a pickle, the vegetable should first be ‘dipped’ (bapto) into boiling water and then ‘baptised’ (baptizo) in the vinegar solution. Both verbs concern the immersing of vegetables in a solution. But the first is temporary. The second, the act of baptising the vegetable, produces a permanent change.
When used in the New Testament, this word more often refers to our union and identification with Christ than to our water baptism. e.g. #Mr 16:16. ‘He that believes and is baptised shall be saved’. Christ is saying that mere intellectual assent is not enough. There must be a union with him, a real change, like the vegetable to the pickle!
(Bible Study Magazine, James Montgomery Boice, May 1989).

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

you should know that context where the word is used means something. The text of Acts 2:38 is not sinking ships. the word Baptized has to do with a two-fold application
Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

the language we see is Repent, (the comma tell us there is more to do), be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, (Oh another comma) and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

for your understanding to be correct why did not Peter just say repent and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit? or just omit the later part and use baptized?

You have been shown right here yet again you are in error. God bless.

Read my reply to wansvic in the previous post.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CS1]

The following is the actual information pertaining to the word baptism:
Greek word - baptizo (bap-tid'-zo); from a derivative of NT:911; to immerse, submerge; to make overwhelmed (i.e. fully wet); used only (in the N. T.) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

It would make no sense for Acts 2:38 to reference the Holy Ghost baptism twice. We know that the gift of the Holy Ghost is in fact the baptism of the Holy Ghost. (Luke 11:13)

The command to be water baptized and filled with the Holy Ghost on the Day of Pentecost is followed again on three occasions. In each case the individuals were water baptized in the name of the Jesus Christ per Peter's initial instructions. (Acts 8:12 -18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6,)

Water baptism was also necessary for Paul (Acts 22:16), Eunuch (Acts 8:35-40), and the Jailer and his family (Acts 16:28-33 )

I agree that is why I posted the word Baptised in Acts 2:38 means water submerging. as the Greek word is "baptizo ". the context is very clear.

 

[CS1]

Water baptism is reserved only for those who have been born again by the power of the Holy Spirit. One is no more saved after water baptism than they were before water baptism.

907 βαπτίζω baptizo bap-tid’-zo
from a derivative of 911; verb; TDNT-1:529,92; {See TDNT 123 }
AV-baptize (76), wash 2, baptist 1, baptized + 2258 1; 80
1) to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
2) to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one’s self, bathe
3) to overwhelm
++++
Not to be confused with 911, bapto. The clearest example that shows
the meaning of baptizo is a text from the Greek poet and physician Nicander, who lived about 200 B.C. It is a recipe for making pickles and is helpful because it uses both words. Nicander says that in order to make a pickle, the vegetable should first be ‘dipped’ (bapto) into boiling water and then ‘baptised’ (baptizo) in the vinegar solution. Both verbs concern the immersing of vegetables in a solution. But the first is temporary. The second, the act of baptising the vegetable, produces a permanent change.
When used in the New Testament, this word more often refers to our union and identification with Christ than to our water baptism. e.g. #Mr 16:16. ‘He that believes and is baptised shall be saved’. Christ is saying that mere intellectual assent is not enough. There must be a union with him, a real change, like the vegetable to the pickle!
(Bible Study Magazine, James Montgomery Boice, May 1989).

For the cause of Christ
Roger

wrong

 

[CS1]

Read my reply to wansvic in the previous post.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I did and it was wrong

 

[notuptome]

I did and it was wrong

Only because it does not agree with your preconceived conclusion. I gave you documentation and still you reject. You cannot provide any evidence that its wrong only your ill formed opinion.

Why should we talk any further?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CS1]

Water baptism is reserved only for those who have been born again by the power of the Holy Spirit. One is no more saved after water baptism than they were before water baptism.

907 βαπτίζω baptizo bap-tid’-zo
from a derivative of 911; verb; TDNT-1:529,92; {See TDNT 123 }
AV-baptize (76), wash 2, baptist 1, baptized + 2258 1; 80
1) to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
2) to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one’s self, bathe
3) to overwhelm
++++
Not to be confused with 911, bapto. The clearest example that shows
the meaning of baptizo is a text from the Greek poet and physician Nicander, who lived about 200 B.C. It is a recipe for making pickles and is helpful because it uses both words. Nicander says that in order to make a pickle, the vegetable should first be ‘dipped’ (bapto) into boiling water and then ‘baptised’ (baptizo) in the vinegar solution. Both verbs concern the immersing of vegetables in a solution. But the first is temporary. The second, the act of baptising the vegetable, produces a permanent change.
When used in the New Testament, this word more often refers to our union and identification with Christ than to our water baptism. e.g. #Mr 16:16. ‘He that believes and is baptised shall be saved’. Christ is saying that mere intellectual assent is not enough. There must be a union with him, a real change, like the vegetable to the pickle!
(Bible Study Magazine, James Montgomery Boice, May 1989).

For the cause of Christ
Roger

LOL what a foolish assertion to the context of Acts 2:38 oh my. Clearly "James Montgomery Boice" did not mean that of pickles in Acts 2:38 LOl. wrong !

 

[CS1]

Only because it does not agree with your preconceived conclusion. I gave you documentation and still you reject. You cannot provide any evidence that its wrong only your ill formed opinion.

Why should we talk any further?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

You should not
No for a few reasons which you lack in doing :

1. not biblical support
2. opinionated
3. taken out of the context of the passage and used James Montgomery Boice to make it more authoritative.
Right why should you any longer continue? You clearly do not understand.

 

[Wansvic]

Water baptism is reserved only for those who have been born again by the power of the Holy Spirit. One is no more saved after water baptism than they were before water baptism.

We are discussing whether Acts 2:38 reference of baptism in Jesus name is water baptism. Notice that the name of Jesus was used during water baptisms not Holy Ghost baptisms:

It is recorded that some were water baptized PRIOR to receiving the infilling of the Holy Ghost:

Acts 8:12-17
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 19:2-6
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (water baptism in the name of Jesus as commanded by Peter in Acts 2:38)
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. (received the baptism of the Holy Ghost)

 

[CS1]

We are discussing whether Acts 2:38 reference of baptism in Jesus name is water baptism. Notice that the name of Jesus was used during water baptisms not Holy Ghost baptisms:

It is recorded that some were water baptized PRIOR to receiving the infilling of the Holy Ghost:

Acts 8:12-17
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 19:2-6
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (water baptism in the name of Jesus as commanded by Peter in Acts 2:38)
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. (received the baptism of the Holy Ghost)

yes, I think your scripture context of Acts 2:38 is correct.

 

[Wansvic]

Water baptism is reserved only for those who have been born again by the power of the Holy Spirit. One is no more saved after water baptism than they were before water baptism.

907 βαπτίζω baptizo bap-tid’-zo
from a derivative of 911; verb; TDNT-1:529,92; {See TDNT 123 }
AV-baptize (76), wash 2, baptist 1, baptized + 2258 1; 80
1) to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
2) to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one’s self, bathe
3) to overwhelm
++++
Not to be confused with 911, bapto. The clearest example that shows
the meaning of baptizo is a text from the Greek poet and physician Nicander, who lived about 200 B.C. It is a recipe for making pickles and is helpful because it uses both words. Nicander says that in order to make a pickle, the vegetable should first be ‘dipped’ (bapto) into boiling water and then ‘baptised’ (baptizo) in the vinegar solution. Both verbs concern the immersing of vegetables in a solution. But the first is temporary. The second, the act of baptising the vegetable, produces a permanent change.
When used in the New Testament, this word more often refers to our union and identification with Christ than to our water baptism. e.g. #Mr 16:16. ‘He that believes and is baptised shall be saved’. Christ is saying that mere intellectual assent is not enough. There must be a union with him, a real change, like the vegetable to the pickle!
(Bible Study Magazine, James Montgomery Boice, May 1989).

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I would tend to believe the Greek definition over someone's opinion noted in a magazine.

 

[Waggles]

I see brother Rodger who like all believers that are filled with the Holy Spirit that which comes by the hearing of the faith of Christ, our treasure of power that indwells all believers.

Unscriptural - not supported by truthful reading of NT.

 

[notuptome]

You should not
No for a few reasons which you lack in doing :

1. not biblical support
2. opinionated
3. taken out of the context of the passage and used James Montgomery Boice to make it more authoritative.
Right why should you any longer continue? You clearly do not understand.

The Lord is troubling you over this matter. You did not refute the real issue over the meanings of the two Greek words in question regarding baptism. You attack another man and reveal your hatred toward believers with whom you disagree.

For the cause of Christ
Roger