Some here will see the Son of Man coming

[tanakh]

Jesus answered the high priest in his usual oblique manner by telling him that he was the fulfillment of Daniel 7:13-14. That prophecy was well known to the Sanhedrin, so they knew exactly what he was saying, which is why they were so enraged. And they did see with their own eyes that reality 7 weeks later when the son of man seated at the right hand of GOD poured out the holy spirit on Jerusalem (Joel 2:28, Zechariah 12:10, Zechariah 14:8, Ezekiel 47:1, 9) and birthed a new spiritual nation (kingdom) in one day (Isaiah 66:8). And some of them probably did see the son of man's power and dominion again in 67 AD when he sent the armies of Rome to destroy Jerusalem.

All of this manipulation of scripture to project prophecy fulfillment 2000 years into the future is due to unbelief.

Yes I think your post has covered all the points.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Jesus answered the high priest in his usual oblique manner by telling him that he was the fulfillment of Daniel 7:13-14. That prophecy was well known to the Sanhedrin, so they knew exactly what he was saying, which is why they were so enraged. And they did see with their own eyes that reality 7 weeks later when the son of man seated at the right hand of GOD poured out the holy spirit on Jerusalem (Joel 2:28, Zechariah 12:10, Zechariah 14:8, Ezekiel 47:1, 9) and birthed a new spiritual nation (kingdom) in one day (Isaiah 66:8). And some of them probably did see the son of man's power and dominion again in 67 AD when he sent the armies of Rome to destroy Jerusalem.

All of this manipulation of scripture to project prophecy fulfillment 2000 years into the future is due to unbelief.

And they did see with their own eyes that reality 7 weeks later when the son of man seated at the right hand of GOD poured out the holy spirit on Jerusalem

Good day HeRoseFromTheDead,

"You have said it yourself," Jesus answered. "But I say to all of you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

The scripture above is synonymous with Matt.24:30-31

"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."

The prophecy above has not yet taken place, as this is not to be interpreted allegorically/spiritually, but in the literal sense. It is in reference to when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, which will not take place until after God's wrath has been poured out during that last seven years.

Notice that another detail of the scripture is that all of the peoples will see the Son of Man arriving on the clouds of the sky and at that time He will send His angels out to gather the elect who will have made it alive through God's wrath and the beasts reign, none of which has yet taken place. In addition, when that event does take place, the Lord will also have the beast and the false prophet thrown alive into the lake of fire, two characters which the world has not yet seen.

In addition to that, prior to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which are the wrath of God, must take place and we have yet to see any their fulfillment.

 

[Noose]

Seeing the 'sign of man coming with the clouds of heaven' is not 'seeing the son of man coming with the clouds of heaven'.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

"You have said it yourself," Jesus answered. "But I say to all of you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

The scripture above is synonymous with Matt.24:30-31

No it's not. Jesus won't be sitting at GOD's right hand in Matthew 24:30-31; he'll be returning to earth in the clouds. He went to heaven in clouds (Daniel 7:13) and then sat at GOD's right hand where he will remain until he arises from there and returns to earth.

 

[Ahwatukee]

No it's not. Jesus won't be sitting at GOD's right hand in Matthew 24:30-31; he'll be returning to earth in the clouds. He went to heaven in clouds (Daniel 7:13) and then sat at GOD's right hand where he will remain until he arises from there and returns to earth.

But before Jesus returns to the earth, He will be sitting at the right hand of God, then He will return and arrive on the clouds of heaven where all the people of the earth will see Him and where He will send out His angels.

My point in all this being, is that this event hasn't happened yet. The Lord will remain at the right hand of God the Father until it is time for Him to return to end the age, then He will arrive on the clouds of heaven and establish His millennial kingdom.

 

[Nehemiah6]

He will return and arrive on the clouds of heaven

I would suggest that *clouds* in this context is a metaphor for the appearance of countless saints and angels coming with Christ at His second coming. "Behold He cometh WITH clouds..." (and some passages say "in clouds") and that is directly from the third Heaven. So atmospheric clouds are not in view. But saints and angels -- all dressed in white and radiating light while surrounding Christ -- will give the appearance of shining clouds.

 

[Noose]

I would suggest that *clouds* in this context is a metaphor for the appearance of countless saints and angels coming with Christ at His second coming. "Behold He cometh WITH clouds..." (and some passages say "in clouds") and that is directly from the third Heaven. So atmospheric clouds are not in view. But saints and angels -- all dressed in white and radiating light while surrounding Christ -- will give the appearance of shining clouds.

And this 3rd heaven you are trying to describe is right here on earth:

Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

But before Jesus returns to the earth, He will be sitting at the right hand of God, then He will return and arrive on the clouds of heaven where all the people of the earth will see Him and where He will send out His angels.

My point in all this being, is that this event hasn't happened yet. The Lord will remain at the right hand of God the Father until it is time for Him to return to end the age, then He will arrive on the clouds of heaven and establish His millennial kingdom.

Oh course Daniel 7:13 has happened. It describes the son of man arriving in heaven with clouds, not leaving heaven with clouds.

The son of man left earth with clouds of heaven

And after [Jesus] had said these things, while [the apostles] were watching, he was taken up, and a cloud received him from their sight. Acts 1:9​

And then he arrived at the throne of GOD with clouds of heaven

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. Daniel 7:13-14​

This is another view of Daniel 7:14 when the son of man received the kingdom, dominion and glory

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And I saw in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures and in the midst of the elders a Lamb standing as though slaughtered, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent into all the earth. And he came and took the scroll from the right hand of the one who was seated on the throne. Revelation 5:6-7 ​

[verses 8-14 describe the son of man receiving great glory]​

 

[Ahwatukee]

I would suggest that *clouds* in this context is a metaphor for the appearance of countless saints and angels coming with Christ at His second coming. "Behold He cometh WITH clouds..." (and some passages say "in clouds") and that is directly from the third Heaven. So atmospheric clouds are not in view. But saints and angels -- all dressed in white and radiating light while surrounding Christ -- will give the appearance of shining clouds.

Yeah, I've considered that, but the scripture says "on the clouds of the sky" which to me would infer literal clouds. I don't think that the reference to "clouds" here is referring metaphorically as "since we have such a great 'cloud' of witnesses." However, it could go either way.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Oh course Daniel 7:13 has happened. It describes the son of man arriving in heaven with clouds, not leaving heaven with clouds.

Daniel 7:13 is a prophecy regarding the future when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom, which has not yet taken place. As I said, we have not seen the Lord return to the earth and we have not seen any of the other events related to His return.

The son of man left earth with clouds of heaven

And after [Jesus] had said these things, while [the apostles] were watching, he was taken up, and a cloud received him from their sight. Acts 1:9​

And then he arrived at the throne of GOD with clouds of heaven

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. Daniel 7:13-14

You even proved that yourself with what you have boldened above, demonstrating the Son of Man will be arriving with the clouds of heaven, as in returning to the earth. Where in His ascension, He is covered with clouds and ascending up to heaven.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Daniel 7:13 is a prophecy regarding the future when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom, which has not yet taken place. As I said, we have not seen the Lord return to the earth and we have not seen any of the other events related to His return.

How is arriving in heaven returning to earth?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I think some folks must get confused about Daniel 7:13 because they see the word came and think "the 2nd coming of Christ", as in Mark 13:26

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. Daniel 7:13​

​

And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. Mark 13:26​

But the Aramaic word translated came in Daniel 7:13 means arrive. And the son of man clearly is arriving in heaven because first he arrives in clouds and then arrives at the throne of GOD, which is in heaven.

H858 אָתָה אָתָא 'athah (aw-thaw') ((Aramaic) or wathaw (Aramaic) {aw-thaw'}) v.​

1. to arrive​

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To add to the confusion, translations of Matthew 26:64 use the word coming.

Jesus said to him, “You have said it. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.” Matthew 26:64​

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But this clearly can't be referring to the second coming because the son of man is sitting at the right hand of the throne of GOD ("Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool"). He can't be sitting at the right hand of GOD and returning to earth at the same time. The Greek word that is translated coming is ἔρχομαι, which means coming, going, or arriving (basically moving from one place to another). In the LXX, ἔρχομαι is used in Daniel 7:13 for arriving.

So based on all of this, it's clear that in Matthew 26:64 Christ was talking about his arriving in heaven to sit at the right hand of power.

Jesus said to him, “You have said it. But I tell you, from now you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power and arriving in the clouds of heaven.” Matthew 26:64​

 

[RickyZ]

Sounds good, but is way off base.

Do you believe that God is constrained to our time line?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Do you believe that God is constrained to our time line?

Ricky,

God is constrained by absolutely nothing, But since He has created mankind with its limitations, He communicates to mankind taking those limitations into account. Now what we know from Scripture is that:

1. Christ came to earth the first time in humility and humiliation as the Lamb of God, in order to take away the sin of the world.

2. Christ will come to earth a second time -- with power and great glory as King of kings and Lord of lords -- to destroy His enemies and to literally establish His kingdom on earth.

3. When Christ comes to indwell the believer, that is NOT any kind of "coming" as related to these things. It is simply that when sinners are baptized WITH the Holy Spirit, and receive the gift of the Spirit, that Christ accompanies the Holy Spirit in Spirit to indwell the believer. Thus we have the saying "Christ in you, the hope of glory".

 

[RickyZ]

Ricky,

God is constrained by absolutely nothing, But since He has created mankind with its limitations, He communicates to mankind taking those limitations into account. Now what we know from Scripture is that:

1. Christ came to earth the first time in humility and humiliation as the Lamb of God, in order to take away the sin of the world.

2. Christ will come to earth a second time -- with power and great glory as King of kings and Lord of lords -- to destroy His enemies and to literally establish His kingdom on earth.

3. When Christ comes to indwell the believer, that is NOT any kind of "coming" as related to these things. It is simply that when sinners are baptized WITH the Holy Spirit, and receive the gift of the Spirit, that Christ accompanies the Holy Spirit in Spirit to indwell the believer. Thus we have the saying "Christ in you, the hope of glory".

1 and 2 agreed, 3 I'm not sure what the point is. The question I posed was, concerning physical death, is it possible for us to leave this realm one by one by one over time, and yet all arrive to be with Christ at the same time?

 

[Adstar]

I do view the verse in the OP as addressing Jesus' contemporaries, that generation, seeing the beginning of His kingdom, but what of those in Mark13:30, Mtt24:34, and Luke21:32 which speak of 'this generation' in the lesson of the fig tree? Are they the same?

Mark 13:29-30 "So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. {30} Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done."

Before verse 30 Jesus gave the signs the last generation before the return of the LORD Jesus Christ would see.. So the generation that Jesus was talking about is the Generation that would see all those signs detailed in the verses before verse 30... so ""this generation"" is the generation that will see all these things ( spoken of by Jesus) come to pass..

 

[Adstar]

1 and 2 agreed, 3 I'm not sure what the point is. The question I posed was, concerning physical death, is it possible for us to leave this realm one by one by one over time, and yet all arrive to be with Christ at the same time?

If Gods time in His eternal existence is not geared with our time as in God created universe time' then yes it would be possible for all to arrive to be with Christ at the same eternal God realm time..

 

[RickyZ]

If Gods time in His eternal existence is not geared with our time as in God created universe time' then yes it would be possible for all to arrive to be with Christ at the same eternal God realm time..

Ok, so we all depart earth-time at different times, and arrive in God-time at the same time. That God time, would that not be what we would call the 'rapture'? If we all arrive in God time at the moment Christ is returning to gather us ... thus every eye will see it regardless of when they left.

 

[jb]

"Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
"ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι εἰσίν τινες τῶν ὧδε ἑστώτων οἵτινες οὐ μὴ γεύσωνται θανάτου ἕως ἂν ἴδωσιν τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐρχόμενον ἐν τῇ βασιλείᾳ αὐτοῦ."

Matthew 16:28

Your thoughts?

Simply a reference to the Transfiguration. Matt 17v1-13 (with 2Peter 1v16-21)

Peter also connects the Transfiguration with the Second Coming of Christ.

 

[DDDo]

Mark 13:29-30 "So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. {30} Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done."

Before verse 30 Jesus gave the signs the last generation before the return of the LORD Jesus Christ would see.. So the generation that Jesus was talking about is the Generation that would see all those signs detailed in the verses before verse 30... so ""this generation"" is the generation that will see all these things ( spoken of by Jesus) come to pass..

That's not what Jesus said. He said his first century generation is when those things would happen. Those signs have nothing to do with which generation. You can accept what Jesus said or continue to distort what he said. I'll go with what Jesus said, without distortion. Also, your interpretation boils down to the dumbness of "These things will happen in the generation when they happen." How do you deal with the Temple being destroyed in 70 AD, in the fist century, not a later generation? Don't answer, because you have no answer.