Seems Revalations and Book of Enoc are seldom/never preached about today.
- Thread starter Raffie
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Example: In the Canonized bible, mountains are often a metaphor for large nations, and hills are often used to describe small nations.
Likewise, Enoch has visions of mountains representing nations during the end times. Some of these mountains are made of brass, iron, and other elements. The faithless within these large nations are suffering due to their love for the material goods modern day technology provides.
If you read my earlier posts, you will see how I recognize the giants of 3,000 ells in height who consume the whole world and then consume mankind is not a literal translation, but is also metaphorical.
In ancient times, an ell was the distance from the elbow to the tip of ones finger, or approximately 18 inches.
3 ells was approximately the height of an average individual.
3,000 ells would then be approximately 4,500 feet in height, and would represent approximately the height of 1000 individuals.
Realizing this literal height for an individual is ridiculous, one then realizes it as a metaphor.
Today, captains of industry are also referred to as giants, having the stature and income of about 1,000 average individuals.
These individuals consume the whole earth with their factories, and ultimately will cause such severe degradation to the earth, that they will then turn and consume mankind.
This result where the giants consume mankind is described in Revelation 9 where four of Satan's angels are loosed, and influence the worlds leaders to use their combined military forces (200 million men) and enact genocide eliminating 1/3 of earths populace.
The cause for this action is attributed to the love mankind has for the works from his hands (Revelation 9:20).
What creates the works from mans hands? Answer: Modern day industry.
Industry causing pollution to the point where there is insufficient sustenance to feed the whole world.
Revelation 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Likewise, Enoch has visions of mountains representing nations during the end times. Some of these mountains are made of brass, iron, and other elements. The faithless within these large nations are suffering due to their love for the material goods modern day technology provides.
If you read my earlier posts, you will see how I recognize the giants of 3,000 ells in height who consume the whole world and then consume mankind is not a literal translation, but is also metaphorical.
In ancient times, an ell was the distance from the elbow to the tip of ones finger, or approximately 18 inches.
3 ells was approximately the height of an average individual.
3,000 ells would then be approximately 4,500 feet in height, and would represent approximately the height of 1000 individuals.
Realizing this literal height for an individual is ridiculous, one then realizes it as a metaphor.
Today, captains of industry are also referred to as giants, having the stature and income of about 1,000 average individuals.
These individuals consume the whole earth with their factories, and ultimately will cause such severe degradation to the earth, that they will then turn and consume mankind.
This result where the giants consume mankind is described in Revelation 9 where four of Satan's angels are loosed, and influence the worlds leaders to use their combined military forces (200 million men) and enact genocide eliminating 1/3 of earths populace.
The cause for this action is attributed to the love mankind has for the works from his hands (Revelation 9:20).
What creates the works from mans hands? Answer: Modern day industry.
Industry causing pollution to the point where there is insufficient sustenance to feed the whole world.
Revelation 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
-
1
- Show all
Thanks luigi
Are you a post-trib rapture believer? If you are, who populates the millennium in light of these verses:
Who is left to rule over? Righteous are in eternal glorified bodies, raptured post-trib, and this is what happens to the wicked:
2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
Any other post-tribber is free to answer this too!
Are you a post-trib rapture believer? If you are, who populates the millennium in light of these verses:
Who is left to rule over? Righteous are in eternal glorified bodies, raptured post-trib, and this is what happens to the wicked:
2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
Any other post-tribber is free to answer this too!
Google "Church fathers Enoch" and see how Barnabas,Tertullian,Origen ect. viewed it. Google "Church fathers giants/angels daughters of men" ect.
The more difficult way would be to read their writings though and see what they thought in ad100 then ad200,ad300 so stay as close year wise to the apostles as you can. The Apostles set many of those over Churches as they were about to die so the the ones referred to as "Apostolic Fathers" are those who were directly taught by one of the actual apostles(contemporaries) and so the view they have(in their writings) would be close to that of the apostles or they would not have set them over the Churches when they were about to die.
The book of Enoch is not openly debated as to it's validity just in the modern days. It was discussed/quoted by many of them in 1st,2nd third centuries and regarded as scripture until the formation of the RCC and from then declared a fraud(by the RCC)...and in ad100 by Judaism.
PS,,,don't look at others homework or they'll spin you a yarn,lol I was sick to my stomach listening to everyone argue over this stuff when I thought to look at the Apostolic fathers letters and see what they said... http://torahdrivenlife.com/articles/enoch/the-church-fathers-and-the-book-of-enoch/
The more difficult way would be to read their writings though and see what they thought in ad100 then ad200,ad300 so stay as close year wise to the apostles as you can. The Apostles set many of those over Churches as they were about to die so the the ones referred to as "Apostolic Fathers" are those who were directly taught by one of the actual apostles(contemporaries) and so the view they have(in their writings) would be close to that of the apostles or they would not have set them over the Churches when they were about to die.
The book of Enoch is not openly debated as to it's validity just in the modern days. It was discussed/quoted by many of them in 1st,2nd third centuries and regarded as scripture until the formation of the RCC and from then declared a fraud(by the RCC)...and in ad100 by Judaism.
PS,,,don't look at others homework or they'll spin you a yarn,lol I was sick to my stomach listening to everyone argue over this stuff when I thought to look at the Apostolic fathers letters and see what they said... http://torahdrivenlife.com/articles/enoch/the-church-fathers-and-the-book-of-enoch/
Look how close Peter was to the risen Christ, and see how even he had gotten something wrong which Jesus had said to him, and that that wrong saying "went abroad among the brethren"...:
John 21:20-23 - [this was on the occasion that, according to verse 14, "This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead."]
"20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?
21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
22 Jesus saith unto him [unto Peter], If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?"
John 21:20-23 - [this was on the occasion that, according to verse 14, "This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead."]
"20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?
21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
22 Jesus saith unto him [unto Peter], If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?"
Hello Hevosmies,
Yes, I am a post tribber, but it is a little more complicated than the basic concept.
There are three areas in the bible in which we find the term "caught up" to the heavens, paradise, and God.
These are in 2 Corinthians 12:2-4; 1 Thessalonians 4:17; and Revelation 12:5
In 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 we see an individual who after being caught up to heaven, later relates his experience to Paul on earth, thereby indicating the individual who was caught up is still on the earth.
In Revelation 12:5 the man child is caught up to God in heaven, only to see later in Revelation 212:17 the devil then going off to make war with the remnant survivors of her seed/the man child, who is on the earth.
As these two areas in which individuals being caught up to heaven indicate their being spiritually caught up, while they remain on earth; so too I believe what is often referred to as the rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, is a spiritual event, and not one where we along with our bodies are whisked away up into the heavens.
The man child who is caught up to God, and Christ, in the heavens and paradise are they who will be enlightened while the rest of the world who will have worshiped the beast, go into darkness (Isaiah 60:2-3).
2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Isaiah 60:2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.
Yes, I am a post tribber, but it is a little more complicated than the basic concept.
There are three areas in the bible in which we find the term "caught up" to the heavens, paradise, and God.
These are in 2 Corinthians 12:2-4; 1 Thessalonians 4:17; and Revelation 12:5
In 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 we see an individual who after being caught up to heaven, later relates his experience to Paul on earth, thereby indicating the individual who was caught up is still on the earth.
In Revelation 12:5 the man child is caught up to God in heaven, only to see later in Revelation 212:17 the devil then going off to make war with the remnant survivors of her seed/the man child, who is on the earth.
As these two areas in which individuals being caught up to heaven indicate their being spiritually caught up, while they remain on earth; so too I believe what is often referred to as the rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, is a spiritual event, and not one where we along with our bodies are whisked away up into the heavens.
The man child who is caught up to God, and Christ, in the heavens and paradise are they who will be enlightened while the rest of the world who will have worshiped the beast, go into darkness (Isaiah 60:2-3).
2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Isaiah 60:2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.