Saved by Water
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Col 2:13 goes on to say:
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
As does:
Rom 6:6
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
As does:
Rom 6:6
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
As I have presented many times, belief in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection is one requirement. And obedience to the command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus is another requirement. Peter said AFTER seeing God fill the group with His Spirit he could not forbid to water baptism them.
Also relevant is that faith without works is dead according to James:
James 2:20-24
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Also relevant is that faith without works is dead according to James:
James 2:20-24
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
I addressed your comment in a separate post. However, you did not address what was presented in my post. I am interested in your thoughts about that:
"If the group was saved the moment they believed why does the record state they were distressed and wanted to know what was required of them to rectify the situation? Furthermore, why didn't Peter just say why are you so upset? You're saved! All you had to do was believe in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection there is nothing else required. We know that is not what Peter said. Peter commanded them to repent and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of sin. He also said that God would give them the gift of the Holy Ghost. Even though many will not accept it as the truth, that is what the word of God actually says."
"If the group was saved the moment they believed why does the record state they were distressed and wanted to know what was required of them to rectify the situation? Furthermore, why didn't Peter just say why are you so upset? You're saved! All you had to do was believe in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection there is nothing else required. We know that is not what Peter said. Peter commanded them to repent and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of sin. He also said that God would give them the gift of the Holy Ghost. Even though many will not accept it as the truth, that is what the word of God actually says."
Faith is believing, trusting, relying in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection for salvation and obedience which 'follows' is works and we are not saved by works. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..). You clearly teach salvation by faith AND WORKS with a heavy emphasis on water baptism.
In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!
In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.
In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.
In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.
In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.
In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)
In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:
1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works are evidences for, or against a man being in a state of righteousness.
God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." That is the "sense" in which God was "justified." He was shown to be righteous.
Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."
So man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is substantiated, evidenced by works. (James 2:14-24)
Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.
It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*
In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!
In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.
In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.
In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.
In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.
In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)
In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:
1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works are evidences for, or against a man being in a state of righteousness.
God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." That is the "sense" in which God was "justified." He was shown to be righteous.
Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."
So man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is substantiated, evidenced by works. (James 2:14-24)
Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.
It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*
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So, you are just conflicted, then. Huh,
Either Paul's answer is complete or it isn't. You are free to take your pick.
But I trust the clear words of Paul on the issue of what a person MUST DO.
Paul said nothing about having to be baptized to be saved. And the jailer was baptized. But only AFTER he believed and was saved.
Rom 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.
Do you see any water here? The red words are what a person MUST DO; believe the gospel.
Nothing about getting wet.
Either Paul's answer is complete or it isn't. You are free to take your pick.
But I trust the clear words of Paul on the issue of what a person MUST DO.
Paul said nothing about having to be baptized to be saved. And the jailer was baptized. But only AFTER he believed and was saved.
Rom 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.
Do you see any water here? The red words are what a person MUST DO; believe the gospel.
Nothing about getting wet.
FreeGrace2 said:
Those verses do NOT apply to anyone other than the crowd Peter was talking to. I've already explained it. Open your eyes.
Only to those who witnessed the miracles that Jesus had performed and then took part in His crucifixion.
No, to the families of those present and Gentiles, for that is what "afar off" refers to.
Those verses do NOT apply to anyone other than the crowd Peter was talking to. I've already explained it. Open your eyes.
Only to those who witnessed the miracles that Jesus had performed and then took part in His crucifixion.
No, to the families of those present and Gentiles, for that is what "afar off" refers to.
FreeGrace2 said:
No I don't. I have Scripture which refutes your claims.
All of the claims you've been making on this forum.
Sure. You think water baptism saves. And your unbiblical claims about the Trinity.
No I don't. I have Scripture which refutes your claims.
All of the claims you've been making on this forum.
Sure. You think water baptism saves. And your unbiblical claims about the Trinity.
FreeGrace2 said:
I don't reject it. I understand it. It was specifically for those who had seen the miracles of Jesus yet participated in His crucifixion.
It is you who doesn't understand.
First, Rom 1:16 says NOTHING about water baptism for salvation. Only belief in the gospel. No dunking for salvation.
Paul's answer to the jailer destroys your theory.
1 Cor 1- where the greatest evangelist of all time specifically said that he wasn't sent to baptize, but to preach the gospel.
Paul's entire message was always consistent. Salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ.
Those who do believe are commanded to be water baptized as a symbol of their faith in and union with Christ.
I don't reject it. I understand it. It was specifically for those who had seen the miracles of Jesus yet participated in His crucifixion.
It is you who doesn't understand.
First, Rom 1:16 says NOTHING about water baptism for salvation. Only belief in the gospel. No dunking for salvation.
Paul's answer to the jailer destroys your theory.
1 Cor 1- where the greatest evangelist of all time specifically said that he wasn't sent to baptize, but to preach the gospel.
Paul's entire message was always consistent. Salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ.
Those who do believe are commanded to be water baptized as a symbol of their faith in and union with Christ.
I answered you concerning Cornelius.
What I don't understand is why you are not willing to address my post. Again it was as follows:
"If the group was saved the moment they believed why does the record state they were distressed and wanted to know what was required of them to rectify the situation? Furthermore, why didn't Peter just say why are you so upset? You're saved! All you had to do was believe in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection there is nothing else required. We know that is not what Peter said. Peter commanded them to repent and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of sin. He also said that God would give them the gift of the Holy Ghost. Even though many will not accept it as the truth, that is what the word of God actually says."
What I don't understand is why you are not willing to address my post. Again it was as follows:
"If the group was saved the moment they believed why does the record state they were distressed and wanted to know what was required of them to rectify the situation? Furthermore, why didn't Peter just say why are you so upset? You're saved! All you had to do was believe in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection there is nothing else required. We know that is not what Peter said. Peter commanded them to repent and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of sin. He also said that God would give them the gift of the Holy Ghost. Even though many will not accept it as the truth, that is what the word of God actually says."
S
this is so typical of your style of trying to control the narrative here
you just ignored my post based on scripture that shows baptism does not save and you go on to accuse someone else of doing that to you. I don't know if they actually did that or not, but you do it constantly
every objection you create has been addressed multiple of multiple times
what goes around
you just ignored my post based on scripture that shows baptism does not save and you go on to accuse someone else of doing that to you. I don't know if they actually did that or not, but you do it constantly
every objection you create has been addressed multiple of multiple times
what goes around
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