Saved by Water
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because they don't know yet. in the beginning we are to have faith... but we are told to grow in grace and knowledge (2 Peter 3:18 ). how much grace and knowledge? that part we might not know until we grow enough in grace and knowledge.
and the answers to things we had in the beginning and in faith and in doctrines received from others or from study might be far different than the answers that we have later on.
You are taking that out of context. It does not relate to sin cleansing baptism.
Eze. 36
5Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea, which have appointed my land into their possession with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey.
6Prophesy therefore concerning the land of Israel, and say unto the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I have spoken in my jealousy and in my fury, because ye have borne the shame of the heathen:
7Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I have lifted up mine hand, Surely the heathen that are about you, they shall bear their shame.
.
9For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown:
10And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded:
11And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
12Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall possess thee, and thou shalt be their inheritance, and thou shalt no more henceforth bereave them of men.
13Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because they say unto you, Thou land devourest up men, and hast bereaved thy nations;
14Therefore thou shalt devour men no more, neither bereave thy nations any more, saith the Lord GOD.
15Neither will I cause men to hear in thee the shame of the heathen any more, neither shalt thou bear the reproach of the people any more, neither shalt thou cause thy nations to fall any more, saith the Lord GOD.
16Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
17Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.
18Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:
19And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.
20And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.
21But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.
22Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
23And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
25Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
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27 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
You have now convinced me that you are a devoted new age religion thinker....going to any length to support your narrative....even if it is absurd.
Eze. 36
5Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea, which have appointed my land into their possession with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey.
6Prophesy therefore concerning the land of Israel, and say unto the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I have spoken in my jealousy and in my fury, because ye have borne the shame of the heathen:
7Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I have lifted up mine hand, Surely the heathen that are about you, they shall bear their shame.
.
9For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown:
10And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded:
11And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
12Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall possess thee, and thou shalt be their inheritance, and thou shalt no more henceforth bereave them of men.
13Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because they say unto you, Thou land devourest up men, and hast bereaved thy nations;
14Therefore thou shalt devour men no more, neither bereave thy nations any more, saith the Lord GOD.
15Neither will I cause men to hear in thee the shame of the heathen any more, neither shalt thou bear the reproach of the people any more, neither shalt thou cause thy nations to fall any more, saith the Lord GOD.
16Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
17Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.
18Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:
19And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.
20And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.
21But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.
22Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
23And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
25Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
.
27 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
You have now convinced me that you are a devoted new age religion thinker....going to any length to support your narrative....even if it is absurd.
There is no such thing as taking scripture out of context....every verse of scripture stands on its own as a bastion of scriptural truth.
For example, Hosea 11:1 was quoted by Matthew, in Matthew 2:15, as referring to Jesus as being the Son of God whereas in the original context Israel was referred to as being the son of God.
2 Corinthians 9:6, can be related in comparison to Luke 8:11, using the hermeneutic of 1 Corinthians 2:13, to give a more orthodox interpretation than what you might ascertain from the immediate context; which would be a name-it-and-claim-it, prosperity, word of faith type doctrine that you can sow financial seeds and reap financial benefits.
And John 19:37 quotes from Zechariah 12:10. One of these refers to the second coming of Christ and the other to His crucifixion.
Let me say that your judgment of me as a new age thinker doesn't faze me in the slightest.
Because I know that what I am preaching is faithful to the teaching of holy scripture and that means that my teaching is faithful according to the word of the Lord.
If you or anyone else considers me to be a heretic, I consider that I am in good company with Paul the apostle (Acts 24:14 (kjv)).
For example, Hosea 11:1 was quoted by Matthew, in Matthew 2:15, as referring to Jesus as being the Son of God whereas in the original context Israel was referred to as being the son of God.
2 Corinthians 9:6, can be related in comparison to Luke 8:11, using the hermeneutic of 1 Corinthians 2:13, to give a more orthodox interpretation than what you might ascertain from the immediate context; which would be a name-it-and-claim-it, prosperity, word of faith type doctrine that you can sow financial seeds and reap financial benefits.
And John 19:37 quotes from Zechariah 12:10. One of these refers to the second coming of Christ and the other to His crucifixion.
Let me say that your judgment of me as a new age thinker doesn't faze me in the slightest.
Because I know that what I am preaching is faithful to the teaching of holy scripture and that means that my teaching is faithful according to the word of the Lord.
If you or anyone else considers me to be a heretic, I consider that I am in good company with Paul the apostle (Acts 24:14 (kjv)).
Not if you are ALSO trusting in water baptism to save you. At best you are trusting in Jesus (for the most part) but not 100%.
The remission of sins is SIGNIFIED, but bot procured in the waters of baptism.
Those who confess Jesus by the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:3) from the heart (Romans 10:9,10) are those who acknowledge Him as being the Messiah and trust exclusively in Him for salvation. The word for "deny" is an aorist tense. This points to the fact that Jesus is not talking about a single instance of denial (as was the case with Peter, who actually denied Jesus three times (Luke 22:56-62) but is referring to life in its entirety. Hence, the person who throughout his life denies Jesus (as was typically the case with the Pharisees and includes unbelievers who may even give mere "lip service confession" - Matthew 7:21-23, but lack saving faith in Christ) will be denied by Christ before the Father.
Amen!
Yes.
Acts 10:43 - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.
Acts 13:38 - Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; 39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.
Campbellites also teach this false doctrine. Now "through His blood" (Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 1:14) is a reference that is not limited to the fluid as if the blood has saving properties in it's chemistry and we literally contact it in the waters of baptism, but is an expression pointing to the totality of Christ's atoning work as a sacrifice for sin. The word "cross" is used similarly to refer to the whole atoning work of Christ on the cross. (1 Corinthians 1:18; Galatians 6:12,14; Ephesians 2:16) We do not literally contact the blood of Christ in the water and Roman Catholics do not literally contact the blood of Christ in the wine either.
Once again, sins are washed away by the blood of Christ (not by water) and this is SIGNIFIED in baptism.
Of course I received water baptism AFTER I believed in Him and received the remission of sins, just as these Gentiles did in Acts 10:43-47.
I knew without a doubt that I was saved the moment that I placed my faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation several years ago on a Saturday night, prior to receiving water baptism on Sunday morning. I even gave a testimony to the congregation of my conversion prior to receiving water baptism.
I know the difference.
Are you a Oneness Pentecostal? That would explain a lot!
You need to ask yourself these questions.
You are preaching a false gospel. Like I said before, either we are trusting 100% in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation (not in Jesus Christ + baptism or in Jesus Christ + other works) or else we are 100% lost. The way of life is even narrower than you thought.
You should ask yourself that question. It's you who is trusting in works for salvation and not exclusively in Jesus Christ alone. Salvation is ONLY found in Jesus Christ. (John 10:9; 14:6; Acts 4:12)
The remission of sins is SIGNIFIED, but bot procured in the waters of baptism.
Those who confess Jesus by the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:3) from the heart (Romans 10:9,10) are those who acknowledge Him as being the Messiah and trust exclusively in Him for salvation. The word for "deny" is an aorist tense. This points to the fact that Jesus is not talking about a single instance of denial (as was the case with Peter, who actually denied Jesus three times (Luke 22:56-62) but is referring to life in its entirety. Hence, the person who throughout his life denies Jesus (as was typically the case with the Pharisees and includes unbelievers who may even give mere "lip service confession" - Matthew 7:21-23, but lack saving faith in Christ) will be denied by Christ before the Father.
Amen!
Yes.
Acts 10:43 - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.
Acts 13:38 - Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; 39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.
Campbellites also teach this false doctrine. Now "through His blood" (Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 1:14) is a reference that is not limited to the fluid as if the blood has saving properties in it's chemistry and we literally contact it in the waters of baptism, but is an expression pointing to the totality of Christ's atoning work as a sacrifice for sin. The word "cross" is used similarly to refer to the whole atoning work of Christ on the cross. (1 Corinthians 1:18; Galatians 6:12,14; Ephesians 2:16) We do not literally contact the blood of Christ in the water and Roman Catholics do not literally contact the blood of Christ in the wine either.
Once again, sins are washed away by the blood of Christ (not by water) and this is SIGNIFIED in baptism.
Of course I received water baptism AFTER I believed in Him and received the remission of sins, just as these Gentiles did in Acts 10:43-47.
I knew without a doubt that I was saved the moment that I placed my faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation several years ago on a Saturday night, prior to receiving water baptism on Sunday morning. I even gave a testimony to the congregation of my conversion prior to receiving water baptism.
I know the difference.
Are you a Oneness Pentecostal? That would explain a lot!
You need to ask yourself these questions.
You are preaching a false gospel. Like I said before, either we are trusting 100% in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation (not in Jesus Christ + baptism or in Jesus Christ + other works) or else we are 100% lost. The way of life is even narrower than you thought.
You should ask yourself that question. It's you who is trusting in works for salvation and not exclusively in Jesus Christ alone. Salvation is ONLY found in Jesus Christ. (John 10:9; 14:6; Acts 4:12)
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Baptism is a symbol of salvation in that it pictures Christ's death, burial and resurrection and our identification with Him in these experiences. In reality, believers are literally saved by what baptism symbolizes--Christ's death, burial and resurrection.
A man and a woman become united through their wedding vows and the ring symbolizes this. Just as we become united with Christ through faith and water baptism symbolizes this. Strictly speaking, the husband is united to his wife because of the marriage vows rather than the ring. Yet since the latter is the sign of their union, it is natural to speak of the ring to mean the reality it represents. "With this ring, I thee wed," although the ring is not the actual cause of the change in the marital status, just like water baptism is not the actual cause of our salvation status.
Baptism would have no meaning without Christ’s death, burial and resurrection, but Christ’s death, burial and resurrection would still have meaning, even if there were no baptism. In other words, Christ’s death, burial and resurrection is the substance and baptism is the sign/symbol/picture. Without the substance there would be no sign/symbol/picture.
A man and a woman become united through their wedding vows and the ring symbolizes this. Just as we become united with Christ through faith and water baptism symbolizes this. Strictly speaking, the husband is united to his wife because of the marriage vows rather than the ring. Yet since the latter is the sign of their union, it is natural to speak of the ring to mean the reality it represents. "With this ring, I thee wed," although the ring is not the actual cause of the change in the marital status, just like water baptism is not the actual cause of our salvation status.
Baptism would have no meaning without Christ’s death, burial and resurrection, but Christ’s death, burial and resurrection would still have meaning, even if there were no baptism. In other words, Christ’s death, burial and resurrection is the substance and baptism is the sign/symbol/picture. Without the substance there would be no sign/symbol/picture.
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What am I gambling? Is Christ an ALL-sufficient Savior or is He an IN-sufficient Savior? Is Christ's finished work of redemption sufficient and complete to save believers or does it require supplements? It's you who has to butcher verses on salvation through belief/faith (John 3:15,16,18; Acts 10:43; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5; 1 John 5:13 etc..) in order to keep your watered down gospel.
In regards to Acts 22:16 see this excellent article - https://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2015/03/acts-2216-baptism-essential-for.html
You need to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine instead of distorting and perverting passages of scripture in an effort to "patch together" your so called gospel plan.
In regards to Acts 22:16 see this excellent article - https://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2015/03/acts-2216-baptism-essential-for.html
You need to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine instead of distorting and perverting passages of scripture in an effort to "patch together" your so called gospel plan.
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FreeGrace2 said:
My opinio
Still confused. When I point, I use all 5 fingers.
I was received as a son WAY back when I placed my faith in Jesus Christ for salvation.
John 1:12 - Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
Gal 3:26 - So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith,
Please note; nary a drop of water mentioned in either verse.
My opinio
Still confused. When I point, I use all 5 fingers.
I was received as a son WAY back when I placed my faith in Jesus Christ for salvation.
John 1:12 - Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
Gal 3:26 - So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith,
Please note; nary a drop of water mentioned in either verse.
FreeGrace2 said:
I guess you really don't understand how contradicted you are here.
First you say you don't deny "there are two Persons".
Then you end with "they are the same Person".
So, you claim that "two Persons" are "the same Person".
I'll just let that sink in for a while.
Because your contradiction was the MAIN POINT. And much of what you post is just repeat stuff.
Are you going to address your glaring contradiction or not?
I guess you really don't understand how contradicted you are here.
First you say you don't deny "there are two Persons".
Then you end with "they are the same Person".
So, you claim that "two Persons" are "the same Person".
I'll just let that sink in for a while.
Because your contradiction was the MAIN POINT. And much of what you post is just repeat stuff.
Are you going to address your glaring contradiction or not?
I've already addressed them. You are misreading all of them.
Paul SAID he was sent to preach the gospel, and NOT to baptize. Why hasn't that sunk in?
You've been given multiple verses that show that salvation is by faith, without ANY mention of water?
Paul's answer to the jailer EXCLUDED water. Yes, the jailer was baptized, but that is a command for SAVED people.
Your fixation on Acts 2:38 is the problem. Until you properly understand that verse, there is no way you'll understand the issue.
Paul SAID he was sent to preach the gospel, and NOT to baptize. Why hasn't that sunk in?
You've been given multiple verses that show that salvation is by faith, without ANY mention of water?
Paul's answer to the jailer EXCLUDED water. Yes, the jailer was baptized, but that is a command for SAVED people.
Your fixation on Acts 2:38 is the problem. Until you properly understand that verse, there is no way you'll understand the issue.
FreeGrace2 said:
Lot's of people think they are going to heaven. And their answers to this question are quite varied.
Some, who are not actually saved, are convinced they are saved. Consider the crowd in Matt 7:21-23. They were convinced that they should be let into the kingdom on the basis of their works. But they never believed, per Jesus' comment, "I never knew you".
But none of this is relevant to getting saved.
Lot's of people think they are going to heaven. And their answers to this question are quite varied.
Some, who are not actually saved, are convinced they are saved. Consider the crowd in Matt 7:21-23. They were convinced that they should be let into the kingdom on the basis of their works. But they never believed, per Jesus' comment, "I never knew you".
But none of this is relevant to getting saved.