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S

studier

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#1,581
Apr 18, 2024
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#1,581
@GWH recent harmonization example:

Okay, let's harmonize John 12:39 with these: Rom. 2:11, Gal. 2:6, Eph. 6:9, Col. 3:25.

As I said previously, rather than both sides denying each other's evidence,
the solution is for both sides to cite Scripture supporting each side's argument
and then work together to harmonize them.

My question:

So, what is your conclusion - what is the harmonized explanation? God is impartial and He hardens hearts. Where does this leave us in your view?
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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#1,582

Pelagian heretics insist man is inherently good. From within the hearts of men come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, arrogance, and foolishness. Mark 7:21-22 Every inclination of man's heart is evil from his youth. Genesis 8:21b Who can bring out clean from unclean? No one! Job 14:4 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Matthew 7:18
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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May 21, 2022
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rogerg said:
Yes, and rightfully so, otherwise, it is the wisdom of men, not God

[1Co 2:7 KJV]
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

[1Co 2:12-14 KJV]
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
Click to expand...

How many times did we cover that verse in context?
Did it ever occur to that the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus was a real time event observed by many.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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#1,584
rogerg said:
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness
unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
Click to expand...
They deny the revealed written Word of God, plain and simple, sad but true.


1 Corinthians 2 verse 12 + 14
:)
 
Magenta

Magenta

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HeIsHere said:
How many times did we cover that verse in context?
Did it ever occur to that the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus was a real time event observed by many.
Click to expand...
Are you really capable of adhering to context? You deliberately leave things off to suit your purposes.

You have done it very many times now. You outright refuse to keep the verse in context.

Instead you truncate it every single time.

How many observed the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus???
 
R

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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#1,586
Cameron143 said:
wrong understanding begets further misunderstanding.
Click to expand...
Yes. And that same thing can also be said for the gospel in its entirety - that should Christ as Savior not be believed as the foundation of the gospel, upon which all in it has been built, then from the first step onwards, no constructed understanding will be correct, and no one can have that understanding of Christ but that it is given to them by God.

[1Co 3:10-11 KJV]
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
 
R

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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HeIsHere said:
How many times did we cover that verse in context?
Did it ever occur to that the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus was a real time event observed by many.
Click to expand...
Only those chosen by God and born again can believe in Christ as Savior. That you think you covered and changed it somehow does not override scripture, but it figures you would think so, I, however, disagree, and think you do not remember it correctly. Do you see yourself as being superior to scripture? Really?
 
S

studier

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Apr 18, 2024
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#1,589
Since discussions about the human heart have been had re: the 4 soils parable, I'm just entering this excerpt from another discussion with @Cameron:

Since you're here, some time ago you and I were discussing this concept of the heart.

I seriously doubt you or anyone here can take us through all the things said about the human heart and convince us that it is as far gone as you and others say it is. Specifically, that it has no abilities to will or think things of God.

For one thing, it's spoken of just by word almost 1,000 times in the Text in different ways, and not all are re: evil. The problem with these discussions is that a little proof-texting is perceived to go a long way, but it's mostly slanted nonsense.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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studier said:
Since discussions about the human heart have been had re: the 4 soils parable, I'm just entering this excerpt from another discussion with @Cameron:

Since you're here, some time ago you and I were discussing this concept of the heart.

I seriously doubt you or anyone here can take us through all the things said about the human heart and convince us that it is as far gone as you and others say it is. Specifically, that it has no abilities to will or think things of God.

For one thing, it's spoken of just by word almost 1,000 times in the Text in different ways, and not all are re: evil. The problem with these discussions is that a little proof-texting is perceived to go a long way, but it's mostly slanted nonsense.
Click to expand...
Sure, the renderings in scripture of words is varied. And no one here is prepared to teach on every aspect of the heart. That doesn't mean some understanding cannot be gleaned without bias.
 
S

studier

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Apr 18, 2024
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#1,591
Cameron143 said:
Sure, the renderings in scripture of words is varied. And no one here is prepared to teach on every aspect of the heart. That doesn't mean some understanding cannot be gleaned without bias.
Click to expand...
Nor does it mean some understanding is not biased.

Maybe some understanding should be the open disclaimer rather than sounding so conclusive when it's pretty obvious it's not.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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studier said:
Since discussions about the human heart have been had re: the 4 soils parable, I'm just entering this excerpt from another discussion with @Cameron:

Since you're here, some time ago you and I were discussing this concept of the heart.

I seriously doubt you or anyone here can take us through all the things said about the human heart and convince us that it is as far gone as you and others say it is. Specifically, that it has no abilities to will or think things of God.

For one thing, it's spoken of just by word almost 1,000 times in the Text in different ways, and not all are re: evil. The problem with these discussions is that a little proof-texting is perceived to go a long way, but it's mostly slanted nonsense.
Click to expand...
Thinking things of God? LOLOLOLOLOLOL. The criteria is to believe in your heart.

That is not possible in the wicked heart of the natural man. Try again.

Do try to keep in mind that the mind of the natural man is opposed to the things of God, inherently
hostile to God, a slave to sin and lover of darkness, suppressing the truth in unrighteousness. Eh?

I wonder if you can. So far it really doesn't seem like it...
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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rogerg said:
Only those chosen by God and born again can believe in Christ as Savior. That you think you covered and changed it somehow does not override scripture, but it figures you would think so, I, however, disagree, and think you do not remember it correctly. Do you see yourself as being superior to scripture? Really?
Click to expand...


He marvels at their unbelief. (Mark 6:6)
He expresses a willingness despite their unwillingness. (Matt 23:37)
He rebukes them for rejecting the purpose God had for them. (Luke 7:30)
He doesn’t wish that any perish but all to repent and live (Ezk 18:31-32)
He holds out His hands to the weak and the unwilling (Rom 10:21; Matt 11:28-30)

The system is just theistic determinism wrapped up in palatable language to make the difficult pill go down more easily.

The internet will slowly kill the doctrines of TULIP because there is sound exegesis and hermeneutics to be found in many places.

People can trust God's self-revelation in Scripture and the person and work of Christ.
Best not to attack and supplant it with pagan philosophical presuppositions of determinism.
 
S

studier

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Cameron143 said:
God actually used this parable in saving me. And under conviction, I did cry out to God to change me. But I never tried to change myself so that God would have fertile soil to work with. I came as I was. God did the transforming.
Click to expand...
Cameron143 said:
I was the 4th soil at the point of my conversion. Had I been a different soil, the outcome would have been different.
Click to expand...
Under conviction you cried out to God to change you. Did you come to the point of view later that He already had since you were 4th soil or changed heart before conviction?

You came as you were, and God did the transforming pre-conviction?

Repeated question: What was your thinking about God before you received or accepted or heard depending upon what version of the parable you want to use?
 
Magenta

Magenta

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studier said:
Repeated question: What was your thinking about God before you received or accepted
or heard depending upon what version of the parable you want to use?
Click to expand...
I think it would be difficult at best to distill 45 years of thinking about God into a sentence or two.

And thinking is not what is required anyways. Why are you stuck on that?

Believing in your heart is the stated criteria.

How many times must you be told this???
 
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