Saved by faith alone?

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Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
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You counted my words? lol. Sorry. Our faith should never stand alone, so I would have to say that they are not equivalent. Faith without works is dead. How dead? As dead as the body without the spirit according to scripture.
So you don't think they are the same. I believe the same.

BTW, I most certainly did not count your words. I have word count on my computer.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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I understand, you believe in calvinism.

Let me guess and you just happen to be one of the few chosen.

Lucky you.
Who's Calvin?
That's a typical response from liberals...if you can't answer, discredit. But Jesus clearly said exactly what I said.

I guess I'm a Jesusist.
 

seekingthemindofChrist

Casting down imaginations
Jul 10, 2023
1,178
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So you don't think they are the same. I believe the same.
No, I do not think that they are the same, and that seems to be James' whole point. If we simply believe in God, then our belief or faith is no different than that of demons who similarly believe in God. Our thoughts or beliefs need to govern our actions or generate works compatible to that which we profess to believe in.

It seems to me that some people see Christianity, whether they are consciously aware of it or not, as a one-time event. In other words, at some point in time, they placed saving faith in Christ, and that alone suffices. I do not believe that this is what the Bible teaches. Our initial act of faith results in us being born again, but then there is a life of servitude and obedience to live after that. If one only has the first without the second, then there is something terribly, terribly wrong.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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Do works produce faith?
No. Faith engenders works. What we believe, we do. That's why if you want to change behavior you must first change belief.
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
909
133
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It's not a quote, but it's what scripture says.
Okay but why does scripture not use the verbiage you are using?
You use alone
Who's Calvin?
That's a typical response from liberals...if you can't answer, discredit. But Jesus clearly said exactly what I said.

I guess I'm a Jesusist.
Are you or are you not one of the few chosen?

This is a real question for those who believe in predestination.

I have asked this question many times and have never had anyone say that they were not one of the chosen.

So are you one of the chosen? Be honest.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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Okay but why does scripture not use the verbiage you are using?
You use alone

Are you or are you not one of the few chosen?

This is a real question for those who believe in predestination.

I have asked this question many times and have never had anyone say that they were not one of the chosen.

So are you one of the chosen? Be honest.
I was chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. That doesn't negate that all who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. And heaven is populated by a number that no man can number.
You seem to want Christianity to be either or. Try the full council of God. You should be equally comfortable believing John 3:16 and Ephesians 1:4. Until you are, in my opinion, you believe less than the Bible teaches.
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
909
133
43
No. Faith engenders works. What we believe, we do. That's why if you want to change behavior you must first change belief.
I thought election meant we cannot change our beliefs.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,121
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No. Faith engenders works. What we believe, we do. That's why if you want to change behavior you must first change belief.
That's how I see it. The call to repent is a call to believe, that is return to God from which we originated, so then all are called to repent since all created in His image originated from Him. We don't work to believe, we just repent of our unbelief, since it is our unfaithfulness that causes us to turn away in the first place. If I wasn't sure before where the line between me and Calvinism was, I'm now sure that is it. I might go as far as to argue that we are born believing, but also with a vulnerability toward disbelief, double minded even. That's something I'd have to mull over awhile to either confirm or deny it's merit though.
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
909
133
43
I was chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. That doesn't negate that all who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. And heaven is populated by a number that no man can number.
You seem to want Christianity to be either or. Try the full council of God. You should be equally comfortable believing John 3:16 and Ephesians 1:4. Until you are, in my opinion, you believe less than the Bible teaches.
"I was chosen in Him before the foundation of the world."

Well who am I to debate one who knows such things.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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I thought election meant we cannot change our beliefs.
The sovereignty of God doesn't negate the choices of men. Think about Acts 2. Peter gave 2 reasons for Jesus death...the predetermined will of God and wicked men. Both are true.
God is big enough to accomplish His purposes within the choices of mankind. He's pretty awesome.
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
909
133
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the subject of works is implied in the question, its pretty much baked into it.
It's perfectly fine to comment on a question but to not answer the question itself?
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,121
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It's perfectly fine to comment on a question but to not answer the question itself?
If works saved, then faith would not be required, since it would no longer be faith but works. I think Paul said something along those lines.
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
909
133
43
The sovereignty of God doesn't negate the choices of men. Think about Acts 2. Peter gave 2 reasons for Jesus death...the predetermined will of God and wicked men. Both are true.
God is big enough to accomplish His purposes within the choices of mankind. He's pretty awesome.
"The sovereignty of God doesn't negate the choices of men. "

Okay now turn that around.

Can the choices of men negate the sovereignty of God?

Yes or No?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,888
6,482
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"The sovereignty of God doesn't negate the choices of men. "

Okay now turn that around.

Can the choices of men negate the sovereignty of God?

Yes or No?
Of course not...Daniel 4:35.
I think your understanding of God is far to small. Think about an infinite mind and what it can do alongside infinite power. We are playing checkers and God is playing infinite level chess.
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
909
133
43
Rather than be sparky, why not learn some things.
Since you are one of the few chosen of God, do you know of anyone who believes in predestination but does not believe they are also part of the chosen few?

A serious and important question that deserves an answer.
 

studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
1,697
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my view

God the Father in His Love --- Mercy and Grace toward His sinful Creation made Salvation available to all by Sending His Son to Shed His Blood --to die on the Cross -and be Resurrected after the Cross --

Grace now is a person not a Doctrine ---Jesus is full of Grace and Truth ------Jesus is a person not a Doctrine

John 1:14 ans 17 NIV
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

I say ---
You need the right Faith to be saved -----Folks ---there is a non producing faith which God gives us when we are born it is a Faith that relies on the 5 senses ----

God's Faith that comes from hearing His word is a producing faith -----this faith is a substance which receives and manifests what God promises in His word -----Faith always requires a positive response -----God's Faith requires action -----you will speak out what you have Faith (confidence) in ------

God created this world by speaking ----God said let there be light and light appeared -----that is why it is important follow what the scripture says to be saved -------

Romans 10:9-10 New King James Version (NKJV)

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
So Salvation comes by way of Grace who is Jesus which comes through Faith in what He did to bring about Salvation ----

I say ----
BY Confession with your mouth ---your speaking out your Faith and manifesting your Salvation ------Faith Receives what Grace makes available -----

-Faith then is the main component as without the right Faith you can even please God -----

Grace comes through Faith ---so Grace who is Jesus has made Salvation available to all people by the shedding of His Blood --His death on the Cross and His Resurrection ---but without the right Faith your access to Saving Grace is nil --so your saved by and through the right Faith alone ----- Faith is your title deed to your receiving the free Graced Gift of Salvation ----



Many don't know because it is not preached -----but there are 3 types of Faith -----James 2 explains the 3 types ---


Also there is different types of Grace -----which are not preached about -----

Common Grace is given to us all at birth -----God makes it rain on the Just and the unjust ------but this grace will not save you ----

https://praywithconfidence.com/types-of-grace/
Common Grace
God loves all people. Common Grace is God’s kindness to everyone whether or not they acknowledge Him. While it is true that believers will experience both common grace and saving grace, those who are apart from Christ will only experience common grace in this life.

Prevenient Grace
This old fashion word means to precede. To precede what? When discussing Grace, prevenient grace is the work that prepares our hearts and minds to hear and receive the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

God works in and around our lives before we even have awareness of Him moving on our behalf.

Justifying Grace
Romans 3:23 tells us that “All have sinned and fall short of God’s glory”. No matter how hard we try or how much effort we exert, we cannot be good enough. Because of God’s great love for us, He made a way through Christ for us to be pardoned or justified.

In this falling world, we are born into the sin of Adam and because of that, the image of God that we were created to be is distorted by sin.

Sanctifying Grace
Prevenient and justifying grace enables you to become a Christian, but it is sanctifying grace that enables you to be a Christian.

To sanctify means to make holy. Once God’s prevenient grace has convicted us of our sin and our need for Christ and after we receive His forgiveness by faith through God’s justifying grace, His Spirit begins the process of our inner transformation. It is God’s sanctifying graces that transform us into the likeness of Christ.

Glorifying Grace
Finally, it is glorifying grace that enables you to be fully conformed to the image of Christ in the New Creation.

Romans 8:30-32 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?