Salvation is for the Whole World

[The_Watchers_2017]

Since it was Christ who had redeemed them, would it then follow that they had been so chosen for that redemption by God?

Anyone can look at a meaning and then rearrange it to say opposite of what is being read.

Anyone can turn foreknowledge into an abstract.

But if it's not what the Holy Spirit Inspired us to both think and believe, then we're only damaging our witness by being the culprit when we do as such.

The Word of God claims the Death upon the Cross happened for the Whole World.

Granted, I can deduct like you are and go directly to results and make it become only for someone specific.

You are perverting the Holy Word of God by preaching YOUR deductive reasoning by IGNORING what the Bible claims.

We know what you are doing.

I will apologize to You for how I addressed You before.

But we must convey the Word of God or Truth by representing what the Holy Spirit factually Inspired.

We are to Glorify God!

Not to make a single SINNER believe they have no Hope.

 

[Snacks]

It is not love to let a perverted gospel be spread across the land without challenging it forcibly by scripture!

That’s exactly why I crush Calvinism the way I do, and do so with the Word of God.

 

[Snacks]

Quite Ironic really.

Amen! 🙏

 

[IsaiahA]

If we assume the world means world of the elect for some reason, what about this verse:

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

How could they wiggle out of that one? EVERY MAN is pretty specific. It doesn't say "all" which we know sometimes means not every one, like when the emperor put the whole "world" under tax, he didn't mean Japan or South America, obviously he meant the roman empire, I get that im not that dumb.
But EVERY MAN to me is so specific that you really cannot get out of that no matter how you interpret it

Yes indeed, in the context it is very specific!

"But we behold him who hath been made a little lower than the angels, even Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that by the grace of God he should taste of death for every man. For it became him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the author of their salvation perfect through sufferings. For both he that sanctifieth and they that are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, In the midst of the congregation will I sing thy praise. And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold, I and the children whom God hath given me." (Heb 2:9-13) The 1901 American Standard Version

Notice that in the Greek you do not find the word "man" and the ASV puts the word in italics to show us. Check the Greek-English Interlinear NTs and see if you see the Greek word for man. We know Jesus Christ died for human beings, but who are those human beings in the context. I underlined who the "every" refers to in the context.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I personally have never read a single portion of God's Holy Word and walked away thinking now I must make that sound how I see it.

That is SELF INDULGENCE that creates the desire to discuss God's Word from back end of human reasoning.

 

[rogerg]

Anyone can look at a meaning and then rearrange it to say opposite of what is being read.

Anyone can turn foreknowledge into an abstract.

But if it's not what the Holy Spirit Inspired us to both think and believe, then we're only damaging our witness by being the culprit when we do as such.

The Word of God claims the Death upon the Cross happened for the Whole World.

Granted, I can deduct like you are and go directly to results and make it become only for someone specific.

You are perverting the Holy Word of God by preaching YOUR deductive reasoning by IGNORING what the Bible claims.

We know what you are doing.

I will apologize to You for how I addressed You before.

But we must convey the Word of God or Truth by representing what the Holy Spirit factually Inspired.

We are to Glorify God!

Not to make a single SINNER believe they have no Hope.

An abstract? I don't understand what you mean by that?

Our hope should never be in ourselves but in God alone. Should someone think that they can save themselves by any of their own actions (to include by their belief), then they would be attempting to take the power of salvation away from God bequeathing it to themselves. Instead, a faith given by God, is such that He alone is its object from beginning to end and is in no way by/of us. A faith not given by God, will instead be a trust in ourselves and in our own works which can never bring salvation.

[1Pe 1:21 KJV] 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

What is your understanding of the word redeemed? Do you think Jesus redeemed any who were not of His people?
If you do, then read Luk 1:68 more closely because it clearly tells us otherwise - that it was intended only for His people alone. This means they were first His people, and being His people, He redeemed them.
Only the redeemed have been/will be saved, and only His people are redeemed. Luk 1:68 places all the work of redemption solely and squarely upon Christ alone and nothing upon those who are of the redeemed.


Redeemed:

1. a ransoming, redemption
2. deliverance, esp. from the penalty of sin

[Luk 1:68 KJV] 68 Blessed [be] the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
[Luk 1:77 KJV] 77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
[Heb 9:12 KJV] 12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption [for us].

 

[Blade]

Yes, the Calvinist doctrine is from the pit of hell. I have seen many young lives ruined through this evil.
Almost lost my own child to this lie, only God gave me His word in my mouth to the rescue.
Still the devil tries to shut our mouths.

Why start something so beautiful to then say this? Oh one was His word the other is yours. Yes we all tend to believe our personal truth is the real true gospel. But what no one can escape is out of the heart the mouth speaks. Do you know how many love believe in Jesus that came in the flesh died on the cross for the worlds sin was buried rose the 3rd day is seated at the right hand of the Father is the only way to the Father that are Calvinist? Not my kids your talking about. Yeah in this world as a father "never touch my kids" yet with GOD's kids we tell Him who are and who are not and do we even care? You disagree with Calvinist well praise God make a thread as many have and in love show what is written and what is not. The part that always brings a smile is within Calvinism there are things we all believe yet oddly those truly against it never touch that part it is odd.

Me? ooh no no not touching this *ism so many and each one KNOWS they are the true believer and if you don't believe talk like act like them you are not saved. Ok praise God.. no clue who is talking but.. thanks for sharing.

 

[MessengerofTruth]

Why start something so beautiful to then say this? Oh one was His word the other is yours. Yes we all tend to believe our personal truth is the real true gospel. But what no one can escape is out of the heart the mouth speaks. Do you know how many love believe in Jesus that came in the flesh died on the cross for the worlds sin was buried rose the 3rd day is seated at the right hand of the Father is the only way to the Father that are Calvinist? Not my kids your talking about. Yeah in this world as a father "never touch my kids" yet with GOD's kids we tell Him who are and who are not and do we even care? You disagree with Calvinist well praise God make a thread as many have and in love show what is written and what is not. The part that always brings a smile is within Calvinism there are things we all believe yet oddly those truly against it never touch that part it is odd.

Me? ooh no no not touching this *ism so many and each one KNOWS they are the true believer and if you don't believe talk like act like them you are not saved. Ok praise God.. no clue who is talking but.. thanks for sharing.

I'm sorry, but I found it hard to follow your thought. Could you clarify it some for me?

I can get boggled sometimes...

 

[rogerg]

It does not matter what "most evangelicals" think. What does the Word of God say? Does it not say that Christ died for the sins of the whole world? So you have simply created a straw man about people having faith in their own faith. Obviously you did not exercise faith.

So based upon what you're saying - that Jesus died for the sins of this world - if taken to its logical conclusion, then everyone of this world must become saved. Is that what you believe?

 

[aa31000]

1 John 2:2 KJV
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Every mortal who has ever lived and aren't here anymore-died and paid the wages of sin by dying. Even the righteous die and pay their wages of sin. So your thinking on that matter isnt reality. Jesus death opened the door for all to repent and turn around(Acts3:19) to get sins blotted out. Jesus sacrifice doesn't cover any who practice a sin and know its sin-Hebrews 10:26

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

An abstract? I don't understand what you mean by that?

Our hope should never be in ourselves but in God alone. Should someone think that they can save themselves by any of their own actions (to include by their belief), then they would be attempting to take the power of salvation away from God bequeathing it to themselves. Instead, a faith given by God, is such that He alone is its object from beginning to end and is in no way by/of us. A faith not given by God, will instead be a trust in ourselves and in our own works which can never bring salvation.

[1Pe 1:21 KJV] 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

What is your understanding of the word redeemed? Do you think Jesus redeemed any who were not of His people?
If you do, then read Luk 1:68 more closely because it clearly tells us otherwise - that it was intended only for His people alone. This means they were first His people, and being His people, He redeemed them.
Only the redeemed have been/will be saved, and only His people are redeemed. Luk 1:68 places all the work of redemption solely and squarely upon Christ alone and nothing upon those who are of the redeemed.


Redeemed:

1. a ransoming, redemption
2. deliverance, esp. from the penalty of sin

[Luk 1:68 KJV] 68 Blessed [be] the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
[Luk 1:77 KJV] 77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
[Heb 9:12 KJV] 12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption [for us].

Our Job, yes, if we actually are one of the few people who do something for God it is first and foremost to Glorify Him.

When you read Jesus DIED for the whole world you know that is pure love.

When you choose to create doctrines so God can be questioned, you have not Glorified Him but INSULTED Him by removing His Own Words for yours.

And just Who are you to diminish the Glory God rightfully deserves?

 

[MessengerofTruth]

So based upon what you're saying - that Jesus died for the sins of this world - if taken to its logical conclusion, then everyone of this world must become saved. Is that what you believe?

This is a straw man...

 

[Snacks]

So based upon what you're saying - that Jesus died for the sins of this world - if taken to its logical conclusion, then everyone of this world must become saved. Is that what you believe?

The opportunity for salvation is granted to everyone but you must have faith in Jesus in order to be saved.

 

[CorrectiveLens]

Matt 26: 39 And He went a little further, and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt. John 6: 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will but the will of Him that sent me. From these verses we can see that the Father and the Son have different wills although the Son subjugates His will and obeys the Father's will. Christ is the God who is active in both the Old and New Testament and fulfills the Father's will.
Exodus 6: 3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them. Christ appeared to them in the name of the Father but His name is Jehovah. It was the Father that appeared in Spirit because Christ is filled with the Father's Spirit and and the Father's Spirit talks through Christ ( JEHOVAH) (who is also a spirit).
Christ is our Savior, our Lord, and our God, but the Father is the father and God of all. Christ died for all mankind and wishes that all be saved but the Father's justice demands that only a few be saved.
The problem arises because many believe that God the Father and God the Son are the same entity. The Son is the God of all creation, but the Father is God of all. Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, ... Yes Christ lowered Himself to become a man, but He was sent ( while in heaven before He became a man) to do the will of He who sent Him (the Father). Both are referred to as God.

 

[rogerg]

The opportunity for salvation is granted to everyone but you must have faith in Jesus in order to be saved.

Well, according to what you've said, all sin, including unbelief was also forgiven. If all sin has been forgiven
then there could no judgment against anyone regardless of whether faith is placed in Jesus or not.

 

[rogerg]

Our Job, yes, if we actually are one of the few people who do something for God it is first and foremost to Glorify Him.

When you read Jesus DIED for the whole world you know that is pure love.

When you choose to create doctrines so God can be questioned, you have not Glorified Him but INSULTED Him by removing His Own Words for yours.

And just Who are you to diminish the Glory God rightfully deserves?

Wrong but your opinion.

 

[Nehemiah6]

So based upon what you're saying - that Jesus died for the sins of this world - if taken to its logical conclusion, then everyone of this world must become saved. Is that what you believe?

IF all would believe. all would be saved. But all will not believe, therefore all will not be saved. Repentance and believing go hand in hand. So here are the words of Christ Himself to explain this:

JOHN 3: ALL WILL NOT BELIEVE BUT SALVATION IS FOR ALL
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

 

[rogerg]

IF all would believe. all would be saved. But all will not believe, therefore all will not be saved. Repentance and believing go hand in hand. So here are the words of Christ Himself to explain this:

JOHN 3: ALL WILL NOT BELIEVE BUT SALVATION IS FOR ALL

Then Jesus's offering couldn't have been for all. You can't have it both ways - it must be either for all sins for everyone,
or you're not understanding those verses.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Then Jesus's offering couldn't have been for all. You can't have it both ways - it must be either for all sins for everyone,
or you're not understanding those verses.

This tells me God died specifically for the UNGODLY. That means every human born.

Plus it explains He would hardly be dying for the Righteous...

 

[Nehemiah6]

Then Jesus's offering couldn't have been for all. You can't have it both ways - it must be either for all sins for everyone, or you're not understanding those verses.

It is you who is deliberately refusing to understand the plain truths stated by Christ. Since He plainly said in verse 17 that He came to save the whole world, you are also being dishonest. Read the entire passage again, then let everyone know that you have been MISREPRESENTING the Gospel, and you are repenting of that sin.