Sabbath

[Grandpa]

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

What happened to animal sacrifice? What happened to the high priest going into the holy of holies as a go between for Israel and God? What happened to all the feasts and sabbath days?

They all were a shadow of, and pointed to, Christ. They were fulfilled by Christ and believers in Christ have no need to continue in the shadow. It would not only be silly but also an insult, as if the Lord didn't do what He said He would do.

Matthew 5:17-18
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

So if you are not keeping all the law, for whatever reason or excuse you have, then you are keeping none of it. If you say you don't do it because Christ fulfilled it, then you are absolutely correct. But Christ didn't just fulfill some of it and leave you alone to do the rest.

This is explained over and over in the New Testament. At this point I think it is hard to NOT understand it.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 9:31-32
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

2 Corinthians 3:7-9
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

Galatians 3:23-25
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

In order to preach working at the law or obedience to the 10 commandments either you don't understand Christianity, don't want to understand Christianity, or you just plain don't have the New Testament in your bible.

 

[Studyman]

great. now read Romans 7:1-4 and maybe you'll understand that i never said anything was blotted out, i said He was crucified. by which death, we are reconciled: we have received peace with God. that's what God says, in His Word. ((how much greater His gift to us because He lives!!))
then maybe you won't keep posting libel about what i believe and say.

Romans 7 doesn't make Void any scripture in my opinion.

You claim you never said anything was blotted out. But the Bible says something was blotted out. It was handwritten, and it was against us.

And in doing so He who was murdered and rose again made a "Show" of those who wrote these "Handwritten ordinances" that were against us, openly. He triumphed over "THEM" in it.

Col. 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

I believe it was the "Commandments" the Mainstream Church of His Time had corrupted God's Way with for centuries. These were the traditions of man, Rudiments of the World, and Vain Deceit that Paul warned of in the beginning of this chapter.

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Matt. 15:
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.


Isaiah 9:
14 Therefore the LORD will cut off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush, in one day.
15 The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.
16 For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.

Jer. 50:6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

Matt. 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Shouldn't a man consider the whole chapter of Col. 2 and the rest of the Bible so as to more perfectly divide the Word of Truth?

 

[Studyman]

It is Yahweh, the Divine name that is doing the speaking in Psalm 110, at least at the first part. So Jesus is sitting at the right hand of Yahweh. And it sounds like we agree that Jesus is not the same as y'all way in every respect.

Many passages where it says I am the Lord your God the Lord there is Yahweh. Which passage are you thinking of?

I would prefer to acknowledge first that It was the Word of God that said "I am the Lord Your God which brought you out" of sin (Egypt)

In your religion, is this the same "Word of God" which became Flesh?

 

[Karraster]

then the very next thing written probably wouldn't be "which things are a shadow, but the substance is found in Christ"
and the thing just before it wouldn't be "He forgave us all our sins, having cancelled the legal indebtedness"

it would be something like "you were baptized into Moses when you put your faith in Christ, therefore let no one judge you for keeping all the signs of the covenant made at Sinai, which things we command all gentiles to do, circumcising them and instructing them to keep every ordinance of the temple just as is written in the Law, which you are under"

No need to make things up. What does follow?
18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind.

 

[posthuman]

Romans 7 doesn't make Void any scripture in my opinion.

nobody said it did. read it again.
no law has to be made void for it to not apply to a dead man.
Here's an idea, try prosecuting a corpse for tax evasion; see how far that gets in court. and lo! not a single IRS bylaw has been altered in any way!

 

[Studyman]

I thought it was implied in my answer. I'll try to make it more explicit.

Yes, I believe that Jesus is an immortal God. Maybe to say the immortal God would be more accurate.

And when he appears, we shall be like him. We shall not be him in every respect.

Of course no one ever said, suggested or even implied that God would turn us into the Messiah, or the Father He sit's by. But the scriptures does say we will be like Him and He is certainly a God, and He certainly has unlimited power, and eternal life.

I find your preaching fascinating.

If I ask my Master "what shall I do differently as a new man than I did as the old man"? He will say "Keep the Commandments".

But if I just go to Him and ask: "will you make me a creature that lasts forever with unlimited power like you" He will just give me the power no strings attached.

Interesting religion. I can see why it is so appealing.

 

[posthuman]

the Bible says something was blotted out. It was handwritten, and it was against us.

if some preacher somewhere says people must wear red shoelaces, are all Christians legally indebted to wear red shoelaces?
does Christ have to die in order to appease the wrath of God with regard to that man's human shoelace ordinance?

 

[posthuman]

No need to make things up. What does follow?

Verse 17 follows verse 16.

why did you skip it?

 

[Studyman]

I think the priests in the temple did break the law on the Sabbath, by doing their Priestly duties.
Matthew 12: 5. Or is it not said in the law, how the Sabbath is broken by the priests in the Temple and they do no wrong?

I have always been astonished by your preaching on this.

The God of the Bible separates an entire Tribe of Israel unto Himself for a purpose, "Levites". He creates through them a Priesthood. And no other person was allowed to partake of this specific purpose. Part of these "Priesthood" duties consisted of sacrificial ceremonies for the justification of sins. All to foreshadow an Everlasting Priesthood which the Messiah would fulfill in "that day".

But you preach that these Priests were actually transgressing God's Commandments by following God's instruction to perform these duties that God separated them for. And further more, when the High Priest came, and was following and performing HIS Priesthood Duties that no other man was allowed to partake of. You also accuse Him of transgressing God's Laws, like the Mainstream Preachers of His Time did.

I am amazed how you just can't seem to grasp that it wasn't against God's Sabbath for a "Priest" to obey God's Instructions on it. But it was against God's Sabbath for someone other than a Priest to perform these duties. And how you and many others try and use the "Priesthood" to justify mans disobedience on God's Sabbath is amazing.

 

[posthuman]

I have always been astonished by your preaching on this.

The God of the Bible separates an entire Tribe of Israel unto Himself for a purpose, "Levites". He creates through them a Priesthood. And no other person was allowed to partake of this specific purpose. Part of these "Priesthood" duties consisted of sacrificial ceremonies for the justification of sins. All to foreshadow an Everlasting Priesthood which the Messiah would fulfill in "that day".

But you preach that these Priests were actually transgressing God's Commandments by following God's instruction to perform these duties that God separated them for. And further more, when the High Priest came, and was following and performing HIS Priesthood Duties that no other man was allowed to partake of. You also accuse Him of transgressing God's Laws, like the Mainstream Preachers of His Time did.

I am amazed how you just can't seem to grasp that it wasn't against God's Sabbath for a "Priest" to obey God's Instructions on it. But it was against God's Sabbath for someone other than a Priest to perform these duties. And how you and many others try and use the "Priesthood" to justify mans disobedience on God's Sabbath is amazing.

Christ is the one who says this:

Matthew 12:5
Or haven't you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent?

that's the priests - not some interlocutors, as you suggest

that's in the Law - not according to some human traditions, as you suggest

and that's profaning the sabbath - which you reject outright? even though Jesus Himself says it?

 

[Studyman]

if some preacher somewhere says people must wear red shoelaces, are all Christians legally indebted to wear red shoelaces?
does Christ have to die in order to appease the wrath of God with regard to that man's human shoelace ordinance?

So I would agree that today, if someone were to preach deceits like "the Pharisees were trying to earn salvation by Following God's Laws" or "God's Laws are against mankind". or "we must wear red shoelaces", once we study the scriptures we would all know they are just deceived, or deceivers because we ALL have direct access to God's Word and we can easily discern these false doctrines.

But according to these same scriptures man didn't have direct access to God's Word until the Christ came.

According to the only true source regarding God, There was only one source of information about God on the planet, a Priesthood, in which God had entrusted the Oracles of God.

And according to this same Source, this Priesthood had corrupted God's Word, and led people astray for centuries. And the Messiah Himself said He came for these people. Came to do what? To show them the truth about their religion and turn them to the God of the Bible. And they hated Him and killed Him just like they hated and killed the Prophets God sent to them before.

They used their religion and their laws to justify His murder. But He rose from the dead, making a show of them openly, triumphing over THEM in it.

I posted the scriptures, but you ignored them choosing to deflect instead.

Tradition was hard for those religious men of Christ's time to overcome. And religious tradition will be hard to overcome now. In fact, without "Belief" in Him and His word's, it is impossible.

 

[Shamah]

this is a distraction question. we are saved by faith and belief and trust in Christ. Christ is Messiah and much more- Lord and Savior.

we Christians, who accept the truth of Trinity , know that when one accepts Christ, the Holy Sprit ( 3rd member of the Trinity ) comes to live inside, and pushes us to fulfill the righteous intent of the Law.

and, on the mount of transfiguration , God the Father said to hear the Son. that elevates and separates the words in Red above all Scripture, including the Torah, which, for the 117th time, gentiles never were under.

So if you believe the Spirit guides people to walk in His Laws then how can you tell anyone they are wrong for guarding the Law or promoting the Law? After all it is the Spirit guiding, at that point one would be in oppisition to the Spirit of the Most High would they not?

Jeremiah 31:33, “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people.”

Hebrews 10:16, "“This is the covenant that I shall make with them after those days, says יהוה, giving My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them.”

 

[Shamah]

What happened to all the feasts and sabbath days?

They all were a shadow of, and pointed to, Christ. They were fulfilled by Christ and believers in Christ have no need to continue in the shadow. It would not only be silly but also an insult, as if the Lord didn't do what He said He would do.

Matthew 5:17-18
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

What happened to the Feast days? You mean the first 3 about the Messiah;s first coming that are already fulfilled?

or

Do you mean the last 4 that are not yet fulfilled?

There are 2 "it is done" statements...

Fulfilled already
John 19:30, “So when יהושע took the sour wine He said, “It is done!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.”

Fulfilled already:

1. Passover/First-fruits – Yahshua's Sacrifice(Passover), burial and resurrection (First Fruits – presenting Himself to YHWH)
2. Feast of Unleavened Bread – Removal of sin by Yahshua's perfect work as the Passover Sacrifice
3. Feast of Weeks – The blessing Holy Spirit of YHWH, coming into our lives stronger than ever





To be fulfilled in the future:



4. Feast of Trumpets – Yahshua's return and gathering of the Saints
5. Day of Atonement – Yahshua leads the army of YHWH to destroy evil rulers of this world and satan is chained for 1,000 years
6. Feast of Tabernacles – Yahshua dwells on earth for 1,000 years teaching truth and righteousness
7. The Last Great Day – satan is loosed and swiftly destroyed, the Kingdom of YHWH reigns forever

To be fulfilled in the future
Revelation 21:4-8, “And Yah shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there shall be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying. And there shall be no more pain, for the former matters have passed away. And He who was sitting on the throne said, “See, I make all matters new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and trustworthy. And He said to me, “It is done! I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, the Beginning and the End. To the one who thirsts I shall give of the fountain of the water of life without payment. The one who overcomes shall inherit all this, and I shall be his Strength and he shall be My son. But as for the cowardly, and untrustworthy, and abominable, and murderers, and those who whore, and drug sorcerers, and idolaters, and all the false, their part is in the lake which burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.”

 

[Studyman]

Christ is the one who says this:

Matthew 12:5
Or haven't you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent?

that's the priests - not some interlocutors, as you suggest

that's in the Law - not according to some human traditions, as you suggest

and that's profaning the sabbath - which you reject outright? even though Jesus Himself says it?

I don't reject anything the Christ says. I just refuse pick one verse in which Jesus was mocking the "White Washed Walls" of His time and use it as justification to sin against Almighty God.

Why are the Priests innocent? Is your God a respecter of persons. He kills one person for breaking the Sabbath and let's others off the hook? Or is the answer in the parts of my reply you refuse to acknowledge?

Well Post. Since I don't have a religion to defend and promote, I simply follow the Word's of the Bible. Why are they innocent? Because God is unjust? A Respecter of Persons?

Or is it because they are part of a Priesthood given to a separate people, with specific duties that the Messiah had just taken over.

How many "Bulls" did the Christ kill to atone for the sins of the people He forgave?

I think your bias against the God of the Bible has clouded your vision.

 

[Lillywolf]

I don't reject anything the Christ says. I just refuse pick one verse in which Jesus was mocking the "White Washed Walls" of His time and use it as justification to sin against Almighty God.

Why are the Priests innocent? Is your God a respecter of persons. He kills one person for breaking the Sabbath and let's others off the hook? Or is the answer in the parts of my reply you refuse to acknowledge?

Well Post. Since I don't have a religion to defend and promote, I simply follow the Word's of the Bible. Why are they innocent? Because God is unjust? A Respecter of Persons?

Or is it because they are part of a Priesthood given to a separate people, with specific duties that the Messiah had just taken over.

How many "Bulls" did the Christ kill to atone for the sins of the people He forgave?

I think your bias against the God of the Bible has clouded your vision.

I would PM you this but I will not $ to do so, so please understand my putting the question here.
Isn't there a rule that it is contrary to the TOU to teach contrary to the Christian faith?
How are there so many here that are doing that? Still.

 

[gb9]

So if you believe the Spirit guides people to walk in His Laws then how can you tell anyone they are wrong for guarding the Law or promoting the Law? After all it is the Spirit guiding, at that point one would be in oppisition to the Spirit of the Most High would they not?

Jeremiah 31:33, “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people.”

Hebrews 10:16, "“This is the covenant that I shall make with them after those days, says יהוה, giving My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them.”

one more time- righteous intent of the Law. not the letter. fruits of the Sprit are the intended results of the Law. after giving them, Paul states " against these their is no law".

of course, since you are obsessed with the letter of the Law, you do not get this...

 

[Shamah]

one more time- righteous intent of the Law. not the letter. fruits of the Sprit are the intended results of the Law. after giving them, Paul states " against these their is no law".

of course, since you are obsessed with the letter of the Law, you do not get this...

We just went through the spirit vs letter discussion...

the letter is lawyering the letter by making "loopholes" to act like one is following the Law and is indeed not.

The spirit is the only way one can honor, guard, keep, walk in, etc the Law...

example of what "the letter" means: The pharisees took the Law about "do not lie in the name of YHWH" and said they could lie as long as they made the oath on something other than His name....

The letter is not reading the word...

 

[Yahshua]

one more time- righteous intent of the Law. not the letter. fruits of the Sprit are the intended results of the Law. after giving them, Paul states " against these their is no law".

of course, since you are obsessed with the letter of the Law, you do not get this...

Galatians 5:23
"...There is no law against these things!"

It's comparing the works on the flesh which ARE against Yah's law, with the fruit of the spirit which aren't. It's saying, the fruits just listed aren't against the law. It's not saying the law disappears when up against these Spiritual fruits.

For example, there is no law against walking down the street. But there IS a law against jay walking. That's all it's saying. There is no law against displaying the fruits of the Spirit.

 

[gb9]

we are saved by this- belief and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. not by keeping the Law and Sabbath, which gentiles were never under.

I will proclaim the Gospel while you guys proclaim the Law.

 

[gb9]

Romans 8 ( all of Paul's letters are Scripture, whether you guys think so or not )- v,3- what the Law could not do because it was weak in the flesh, because of what Christ did on the cross, we can fulfil the righteousness of the Law by walking after the sprit.

once again- righteous intent , not the letter.