Sabbath

[Studyman]

you're still either side-stepping or you don't understand what i'm pointing out.

the Law makes Levi priest, even high priest. by way of jots and tittles. by written commandment. by perpetual statute. by eternal covenant of salt.
the fact that the Messiah is high priest forever is exactly the issue; if those found in Christ are under the Law then they are under the priesthood of Aaron, because that's who the jots and tittles of the Law make priest.

Didn't the "jot and tittles" also speak of a "future time" when the Word which became Flesh will assume the Levitical Priesthood duties?

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Wasn't the administration of God's Laws the duties of the Levite Priesthood?


34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Wasn't it the duty of the Levite Priest to perform "works of the Law" to atone for the errors of the people?

So it seems that, yes, God gave the Priesthood to Levi in the jots and tittles, but also said, in the same "Jots and Tittles" that there would come a future time when He would become the High Priest Himself.

Is this not an accurate representation of the scriptures?

 

[Studyman]

Paul said no such thing. In fact he opposed any such idea. So refrain from concocting your own theology.

Rom. 14:
1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Would this instruction also pertain to any Commandment of God, including Circumcision?

11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

What are we supposed to be convinced of? That God is true and every man a liar, Yes? Is that not also what Paul teaches?

I believe these instructions speak to any matter, including Circumcision.

Let each true believer be convinced in his own mind.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Would this instruction also pertain to any Commandment of God, including Circumcision?

No it would not. It is strictly about dietary laws (primarily) and observing holy days. See the entire chapter of Romas 14.

Now regarding circumcision, this is what Paul has to say in Romans:

For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision... For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh... (Rom 2:25,28).

What is Paul saying here? That under the New Covenant, CIRCUMCISION IS MEANINGLESS. And those who wish to be circumcised must observe THE WHOLE LAW OF MOSES (which is not possible any longer).

 

[Studyman]

No it would not. It is strictly about dietary laws (primarily) and observing holy days. See the entire chapter of Romas 14.

Now regarding circumcision, this is what Paul has to say in Romans:

For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision... For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh... (Rom 2:25,28).

What is Paul saying here? That under the New Covenant, CIRCUMCISION IS MEANINGLESS. And those who wish to be circumcised must observe THE WHOLE LAW OF MOSES (which is not possible any longer).

I see why you might say that.

But what about the next verse.

26 Therefore if the uncircumcision (Gentiles) keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

It still seems Paul is promoting Circumcision in some form.

1 cor. 7:
18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Phil. 3:
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

It seems the spiritual Nature of Circumcision is still very important to Paul, therefore to the Christ who inspires him.

If a Jew were coming to Christ, and believed in Physical Circumcision. Would you judge him? Would Paul judge Him?

Or would Paul let this man be convinced in his own mind which circumcision God still requires, physical or Spiritual?

 

[Shamah]

No it would not. It is strictly about dietary laws (primarily) and observing holy days. See the entire chapter of Romas 14.

Now regarding circumcision, this is what Paul has to say in Romans:

For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision... For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh... (Rom 2:25,28).

What is Paul saying here? That under the New Covenant, CIRCUMCISION IS MEANINGLESS. And those who wish to be circumcised must observe THE WHOLE LAW OF MOSES (which is not possible any longer).

So why did Paul have Timothy circumcised? Paul says "Christ is of no value at all to you" if circumcised? yet he had him circumcised to please men? Can you explin this?

Acts 16:1-3, “1 Paul came also to Derbe and to Lystra. And a disciple was there, named Timothy, the son of a Jewish woman who was a believer, but his father was a Greek, 2 and he was well spoken of by the brethren who were in Lystra and Iconium. 3 Paul wanted this man to go with him; and he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in those parts, for they all knew that his father was a Greek.”

The answer to why would he have Timothy circumcised could be; “because of the Jews who were in the those parts,” however, it seems hypocritical especially given other texts like Galatians 5, where he is harshly admonishing the Galatians who were even thinking about getting circumcised;

Galatians 5:2, Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.”

Did Paul make "Christ of no value" to Timothy?

Did Paul have a Gentile circumcised just to please men?

 

[posthuman]

"circumcise your hearts" is found in Deuteronomy 10.

"circumcise the flesh" is found in Genesis 17.

Genesis comes before Deuteronomy.

 

[posthuman]

1 cor. 7:
18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

this is very interesting, because physical circumcision is in fact a commandment both of the Law and directly to Abraham as a sign of God's covenant with him. but the implication is that in some sense physical circumcision is not, or is at least no longer a commandment of God. so we have that the keeping of what was given as a physical sign of a covenant, and what was commanded in the Law, somehow spoken of as *not* equivalent to ((and not a necessary part of)) keeping of the commandments of God.
there exists then, at least one sign of a covenant and at least one commandment in the Law that is *not* considered by a man in Christ to be part of 'keeping the commandments of God' -- and it's something that has absolutely nothing to do with priesthood or rites for atonement for sin.

 

[posthuman]

So why did Paul have Timothy circumcised? Paul says "Christ is of no value at all to you" if circumcised? yet he had him circumcised to please men? Can you explin this?

Acts 16:1-3, “1 Paul came also to Derbe and to Lystra. And a disciple was there, named Timothy, the son of a Jewish woman who was a believer, but his father was a Greek, 2 and he was well spoken of by the brethren who were in Lystra and Iconium. 3 Paul wanted this man to go with him; and he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in those parts, for they all knew that his father was a Greek.”

The answer to why would he have Timothy circumcised could be; “because of the Jews who were in the those parts,” however, it seems hypocritical especially given other texts like Galatians 5, where he is harshly admonishing the Galatians who were even thinking about getting circumcised;

Galatians 5:2, Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.”

Did Paul make "Christ of no value" to Timothy?

Did Paul have a Gentile circumcised just to please men?

it may have to do with Timothy meaning to go with Paul to evangelize among the Jews, and 'becoming as one under the Law, though themselves not under the Law, in order to win those under the Law to Christ'
it seems that the churches in Galatia he wrote to weren't all going on missions to preach the gospel to Jews. instead, they had people, in all probability Jews, essentially evangelizing them & preaching circumcision and the Law as though it is part of the gospel. as he wrote elsewhere, he considered physical circumcision 'nothing' -- and he said the same thing about idols ((1 Corinthians 8:4)), that they are 'nothing' and that eating meat waved in front of them is nothing. but he says that for those weak in the faith, being not far removed from idolatry, eating meat sacrificed to them was sin, because of the conviction of their conscience.
there is in a sense a point here about maturity in faith, a measure of distance from a former perception, and a contextual weight of reference frame. circumcising Timothy didn't apparently mean the same thing that it meant to the people in the Galatian churches; it wasn't done with the same purpose. refraining from eating bacon among a bunch of vegetarians you are trying to bring the gospel to is not the same as refusing bacon on the basis of it being not halal or kosher. in the first sense it is done out of love and respect, seeking to 'give none offense' as much as it is possible. in the second case it's done by compulsion of law.
it's clear that to the apostle there is no compulsion of law to be physically circumcised, and that in the abstract, 'big picture' sense it is not sinful to perform ((considering Timothy)). seeing how adamant he is in Galatians, and how he goes on about how being under the Law is not the gospel of Jesus Christ, to the point that he tells them -- them in particular -- that allowing themselves to be circumcised is calling Christ's work void, it looks to me that they were being circumcised in an entirely different context than Timothy was, with an implicit meaning attached to the act that would be setting scripture against scripture if it was not a different thing being done.
i say, 'a different thing' with this in mind: that circumcision and uncircumcision is nothing. it is like the man gathering wood on the sabbath in Numbers 15 being correlated in the command of the tzitzit with harlotry/adultery/idolatry/stiff-necked. there is more going on here, spiritually, than there is physically, and it's the spiritual thing that is the primary concern.

as with every 'difficult' thing we find in scripture, it's not a contradiction and it's not something that makes no sense. it's something absolutely amazing, a treasure hidden in a field to be uncovered, a portrait of the Messiah. what i wrote here may not be the solution; it's just my thoughts. the solution is Christ: all the scripture is a testimony of Him, including this puzzle that is physical circumcision.

 

[Zmouth]

as with every 'difficult' thing we find in scripture, it's not a contradiction and it's not something that makes no sense. it's something absolutely amazing, a treasure hidden in a field to be uncovered, a portrait of the Messiah. what i wrote here may not be the solution; it's just my thoughts.

Can you give us an example of one of these hidden treasures waiting to be uncovered since I would say that if a person claimed that these 'difficult' things in the scriptures are actually something amazing, like a hidden treasure in a field then it would be obviously a contradiction if they didn't have any examples since we speak of that which we know or that which we have seen, unless they really weren't their thoughts but someone elses.





I

 

[mailmandan]

In Context Colossians 2:16 does not say what you imply.

Blotting out the handwriting to the ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
(Col 2:14)

It is the handwriting to the ordinances that were against us; not the Decalogue. And if I may emphasize it was those that were against that were blotted out of the handwriting to the ordinances. Not all of which Moses was given to hand write in the Book of the Law was against us. Only that which dealt with when we sinned were blotted according to the context and grammar here.

There were other ordinances which were blotted out but are not covered in this context. Such as the way we shave, wear our hair and dress. These were specifically to make Israel stand out as a people. As Christians we have put on Christ. We are a new creation in Christ and as the body of Christ the Temple of GOD it is HE that makes us standout for it is HE that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. There is no longer Jew or Gentile we are all One in Christ.

Colossians 2:14 - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

Ephesians 2:15 - having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

The natural reading of Ephesians 2:15 and Colossians 2:14 would see that the entire old covenant written code was nailed to the cross, including the Decalogue (with all the rules and regulations attached to them under the Mosaic Law) which were the center point of the old covenant (Exodus 34:29-34).

2 Corinthians 3:6 - "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns"

The Amplified Bible reads - He has qualified us [making us sufficient] as ministers of a new covenant [of salvation through Christ], not of the letter [of a written code] but of the Spirit; for the letter [of the Law] kills [by revealing sin and demanding obedience], but the Spirit gives life.

7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.

The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter.

 

[mailmandan]

No your constant attacks; as if you are the Judge.

Not to mention trying to excuse your behavior.

No, your constant legalism and SDA propaganda as if salvation is by "grace plus law, faith plus works," which IT IS NOT.

 

[mailmandan]

JUDE 1 [1]Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called: [2] Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied. [3] Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of THE COMMON SALVATION, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was ONCE DELIVERED UNTO THE SAINTS. [4] For there are CERTAIN MEN CREPT IN unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, TURNING THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO LASCIVIOUSNESS, AND DENYING THE ONLY LORD GOD, AND OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. [5] I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT, afterward DESTROYED THEM THAT BELIEVED NOT.

Above scripture tells us a lot. Speaks of salvation and faith delivered to the saints. But certain men crept in and turned the grace of God into lasciviousness and now deny Jesus. Lets go see why these people were destroyed

Those who were delivered out of the land of Egypt were the ISRAELITES who were UNDER THE LAW UNDER THE OLD COVENANT. Jude is exhorting believers to contend earnestly for the faith (the Christian faith, and NOT salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works" - Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9) which was once for all delivered to the saints (vs. 3) because certain ungodly men who have crept in unnoticed. Jude further describes these ungodly men as ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit (vs. 19) In CONTRAST to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and PRESERVED in Jesus Christ (vs. 1).

EZEK.20 [10] Wherefore I caused them to go forth OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT, and brought them INTO THE WILDERNESS. [11] And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them.[12] Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.[13] But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and MY SABBATHS THEY GREATLY POLLUTED: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them IN THE WILDERNESS, TO CONSUME THEM.

Once again you have demonstrated that you are unable to make the transition from the old covenant into the new covenant. This passage of scripture is directed to THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL WHO WERE UNDER THE LAW UNDER THE OLD COVENANT. *Stop trying to mix the old covenant with the new covenant. The Church is not under the old covenant.

 

[mailmandan]

Im sure your book says obsolete

HEBREWS 8 [12] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. [13] In that he saith, A NEW COVENANT, HE HATH MADE THE FIRST OLD. NOW THAT WHICH DECAYETH AND WAXETH OLD IS READY TO VANISH AWAY.

But the bible says its waxing old. Getting ready to vanish. Are you waxing old? Are you obsolete?

The KJV says "decayeth and waxeth old is read to vanish away." Hebrews 8:13 (NASB) - When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. Multiple other translations also say "obsolete." (AMP; CSB; CEB; ESV; NET; NIV; NKJV; RSV; NRSV).

 

[mailmandan]

You forgot the one that repeats the Sabbath. Hebrews 4

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest (Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel), any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the GOSPEL (Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel) preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest (Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel), as HE said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest (Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel): although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. (GOD’S rest; the Gospel has been available since the creation of the world) For HE spake in a certain place (Mt. Sinai in the giving of the Commandments) of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this again (AGAIN HE SPEAKS), IF they shall enter into my rest (Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel).

A few things need being mentioned in these verses. The REST mentioned is referring to the GOSPEL. This brought to light in verse TWO. The giving (speaking) of The Seventh Day and GOD resting on it. And the Seventh Day being brought up again (HE speaks) IF they shall enter into my rest (Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel). And incidentally Two separate things are being mentioned. The Rest in which is the GOSPEL and the forth Commandment; Seventh Day which is the Sabbath.

Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein (Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel) , and they to whom it was first preached entered not in (Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel) because of unbelief (Stiff necked hard hearted disobedience): Again, he limiteth a certain day (period), saying in David, To day, (a call to repentance right now; to accept the rest, Katapausis; the ceasing down, the Gospel) after so long a time; as it is said, To day (right now) if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest (Settling down; the Gospel), then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest (Sabbatismos; A Sabbath keeping) to the people of God. (is being said in relation to verses 3-5 not 7 and 8. Verses 7 and 8 are a scriptural reference being used for a call to repentance. Verses 9 and 10 pick up from verses 3-5 to hold the context of the Seventh Day being spoken of)) For he that is entered into his rest (Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel) , he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest (Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel) , lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Two separate rests being spoken of in Hebrews 4. The Gospel rest and the Seventh Day Sabbath. A distinction is being made between the two in verses 9 and 10. A rest (Sabbath keeping) that remains and a rest (the Gospel) that has been entered. The ceasing from their own works as GOD did from HIS (a Sabbath keeping) is something that is being done in addition to entering into the Rest (Gospel). Not the Same thing, a result of or because.

There remaineth therefore a rest (a Sabbath Keeping) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour (be diligent) therefore to enter into that rest (the Gospel), lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief (hard heart; stiff necked disobedience). For the word of God is quick (living), and powerful (actively effective), and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner (that still small voice)of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

(Heb 4:9-12 KJV)

As GOD did from HIS in verse ten is a DIRECT COMPARISON. He that has entered into his rest; the Gospel. Ceases from his own work like GOD did from HIS. GOD IS RIGHTEOUSNESS HE DID NOT CEASE FROM TRYING TO WORK OUT HIS OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS AND REST IN CHRIST AS WE DO. GOD rested the Seventh Day from all HIS work which HE had made. Physical labor not Spiritual! So we rest from our physical labor also as GOD did because of our entering into our rest in Christ.

More SDA propaganda. Notice that the Greek word "sabbatismos" is used no where else in the Bible! Amazing that Sabbatarians would suggest that this is the word for "keeping the weekly Sabbath" when it is never used anywhere else, in spite of the many references to Jews keeping the weekly Sabbath in the New Testament!

W. E. Vine, Greek Dictionary on "Rest" proves the Sabbatarian argument wrong:

A2. KATAPAUSIS (2663), in classical Greek, denotes a causing to cease or putting to rest; in the N.T., rest, repose; it is used (a) of God's rest, Acts 7:49; Heb. 3:11, 18; 4:1, 3 (twice), R.V. (1st part), "that rest" (the A.V., "rest," is ambiguous), 5, 11; (b) in a general statement, applicable to God and man, 4:10.

A4. SABBATISMOS (4520), a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law. Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, 4:10, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it. In whatever way they enter into Divine rest, that which they enjoy is involved in an indissoluble relation with God.

B2. KATAPAUO (2664), akin to A, No. 2, used transitively, signifies to cause to cease, restrain, Acts 14:18; to cause to rest, Heb. 4:8; intransitively, to rest, Heb. 4:4, 10. See Cease, A, No. 6, Restrain.

Your perverted Sabbath gospel is not the gospel which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16).

 

[Studyman]

Colossians 2:14 - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

Ephesians 2:15 - having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

The natural reading of Ephesians 2:15 and Colossians 2:14 would see that the entire old covenant written code was nailed to the cross, including the Decalogue (with all the rules and regulations attached to them under the Mosaic Law) which were the center point of the old covenant (Exodus 34:29-34).

2 Corinthians 3:6 - "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns"

The Amplified Bible reads - He has qualified us [making us sufficient] as ministers of a new covenant [of salvation through Christ], not of the letter [of a written code] but of the Spirit; for the letter [of the Law] kills [by revealing sin and demanding obedience], but the Spirit gives life.

7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.

The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter.

Only if one has been convinced, as was Eve, that God's intent with His Law is against you, to keep you dead, blind and in prison, can you believe Col. 2 refers to the Law and Prophets.. Personally I don't believe God is unjust, and I don't believe what the serpent told Eve.

It is a popular theme among religious men, but I believe God is perfect and Holy. Not unjust.

There are "many" voices that have parroted this same deception through out the Bible.

Ex. 16:
2 And the whole congregation of the children of Israel murmured against Moses and Aaron in the wilderness:
3 And the children of Israel said unto them, Would to God we had died by the hand of the LORD in the land of Egypt, when we sat by the flesh pots, and when we did eat bread to the full; for ye have brought us forth into this wilderness, to kill this whole assembly with hunger.


The "Enmity" is Not God or His instructions. The enmity is the "OTHER" voice in our mind. IMO.

This voice is "against God". This is the voice that teaches God's Laws are "against us". Not the Holy Bible.

 

[Grandpa]

Can you give us an example of one of these hidden treasures waiting to be uncovered since I would say that if a person claimed that these 'difficult' things in the scriptures are actually something amazing, like a hidden treasure in a field then it would be obviously a contradiction if they didn't have any examples since we speak of that which we know or that which we have seen, unless they really weren't their thoughts but someone elses.





I

Galatians 3:21-26
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.


22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.


23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.


24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.


25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[Studyman]

The KJV says "decayeth and waxeth old is read to vanish away." Hebrews 8:13 (NASB) - When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. Multiple other translations also say "obsolete." (AMP; CSB; CEB; ESV; NET; NIV; NKJV; RSV; NRSV).

Obsolete is the right word. The old Priesthood with it's animal sacrifice and corrupt preachers was growing old.

The Messiah promised a "new" and better way to "give us God's Laws" and to "forgive the sins of men" in Jer. 31. The Levite Priests had corrupted God's Laws and they were preaching visions of their own mind, as it is written.

Jer. 31:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

No more Levite Priests to filter and corrupt God's Words.


34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

No more Levite Priesthood "works of the Law" for remission of sins.

A changing of the Priesthood.

Heb. 8:
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them,(Carnal Levite Priests who corrupted God's Laws) he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Many preach that the Messiah removed the Law and Prophets in the New Covenant. But the scriptures say what was "changed" was the Priesthood. How God's Laws are administered and how sins are forgiven. The definition of sin remains the same.

 

[Grandpa]

Also found in Romans

ROMANS 3 [30] Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. [31] DO WE THEN MAKE VOID THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: yea, we establish the law.

Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

 

[Grandpa]

More SDA propaganda. Notice that the Greek word "sabbatismos" is used no where else in the Bible! Amazing that Sabbatarians would suggest that this is the word for "keeping the weekly Sabbath" when it is never used anywhere else, in spite of the many references to Jews keeping the weekly Sabbath in the New Testament!

W. E. Vine, Greek Dictionary on "Rest" proves the Sabbatarian argument wrong:

A2. KATAPAUSIS (2663), in classical Greek, denotes a causing to cease or putting to rest; in the N.T., rest, repose; it is used (a) of God's rest, Acts 7:49; Heb. 3:11, 18; 4:1, 3 (twice), R.V. (1st part), "that rest" (the A.V., "rest," is ambiguous), 5, 11; (b) in a general statement, applicable to God and man, 4:10.

A4. SABBATISMOS (4520), a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law. Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, 4:10, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it. In whatever way they enter into Divine rest, that which they enjoy is involved in an indissoluble relation with God.

B2. KATAPAUO (2664), akin to A, No. 2, used transitively, signifies to cause to cease, restrain, Acts 14:18; to cause to rest, Heb. 4:8; intransitively, to rest, Heb. 4:4, 10. See Cease, A, No. 6, Restrain.

Your perverted Sabbath gospel is not the gospel which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16).

Hebrews 4 itself refutes the thought that Rest could possibly mean continue working at the law like the various legalists try to claim.

Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

He that is entered into rest only rests on saturdays?? That is not how God ceased from His Own Works. God didn't start working again on the 8th day or the 9th day. He continued to rest.

Hebrews 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Why would someone conflate the gospel with working at the law in their own strength and understanding?

Because the word preached did not profit them because they did not have faith mixed with their hearing.

Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

The law is not of faith. So those that insist on following a carnal commandment obviously have not entered into His Rest. Pretty simple.

 

[mailmandan]

Only if one has been convinced, as was Eve, that God's intent with His Law is against you, to keep you dead, blind and in prison, can you believe Col. 2 refers to the Law and Prophets.. Personally I don't believe God is unjust, and I don't believe what the serpent told Eve.

It is a popular theme among religious men, but I believe God is perfect and Holy. Not unjust.

There are "many" voices that have parroted this same deception through out the Bible.

Ex. 16:
2 And the whole congregation of the children of Israel murmured against Moses and Aaron in the wilderness:
3 And the children of Israel said unto them, Would to God we had died by the hand of the LORD in the land of Egypt, when we sat by the flesh pots, and when we did eat bread to the full; for ye have brought us forth into this wilderness, to kill this whole assembly with hunger.

The "Enmity" is Not God or His instructions. The enmity is the "OTHER" voice in our mind. IMO.

This voice is "against God". This is the voice that teaches God's Laws are "against us". Not the Holy Bible.

Galatians 3:24 - Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a [a]tutor.26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Only if one has been convinced, as was Eve, that God's intent with His Law is against you, to keep you dead, blind and in prison, can you believe Col. 2 refers to the Law and Prophets.. Personally I don't believe God is unjust, and I don't believe what the serpent told Eve.

It is a popular theme among religious men, but I believe God is perfect and Holy. Not unjust.

There are "many" voices that have parroted this same deception through out the Bible.

Ex. 16:
2 And the whole congregation of the children of Israel murmured against Moses and Aaron in the wilderness:
3 And the children of Israel said unto them, Would to God we had died by the hand of the LORD in the land of Egypt, when we sat by the flesh pots, and when we did eat bread to the full; for ye have brought us forth into this wilderness, to kill this whole assembly with hunger.

The "Enmity" is Not God or His instructions. The enmity is the "OTHER" voice in our mind. IMO.

This voice is "against God". This is the voice that teaches God's Laws are "against us". Not the Holy Bible.

Whenever sabbatarians see the expression "statutes, ordinances and decrees", they automatically exclude the 10 commandments and apply it only to what they call, "the ceremonial law" yet here are many passages in which these common expressions refer to the 10 commandments:

In Leviticus 19:1-37, the 10 commandments and the ceremonial law are mixed together without distinction and called "My statures and all My ordinances"

In Leviticus 23, the weekly sabbath is lumped in with all the yearly sabbaths without distinction and they are all called "The Lord's appointed times" and "holy convocations".

In Deuteronomy 5:1, the 10 commandments are called "My statures and all My ordinances"

In Deuteronomy 5:1-6:25, we see two whole chapters that deal exclusively with the 10 commandments and the following 5 terms are used interchangeably without distinction: "statutes", "ordinances", "commandments", "judgments", "testimonies".

In Ezekiel 20:19-21, my sabbaths (including the weekly sabbath) are called "My statures and all My ordinances."

Ezekiel 20 calls the first and fourth commandment, "My statutes and My ordinances."

Nehemiah 8 uses interchangeably without distinction, the following terms: "the book of the law of Moses", "the law", "the book of the law", "the law of God", "book of the law of God."

In Nehemiah 9:13-14, the weekly sabbath is included without distinction: "right judgments, true laws, good statutes, commandments."

Malachi 4:4 - closes with a call to keep "statutes and ordinances" which obviously include the 10 commandments.