if you mean 'seventh day' by the word 'sabbath' that can be different than if you mean 'rest from your labor' 
If you have any, please share.
JPT
Sabbath
- Thread starter geaux4it
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Still looking for the instructions from Jesus or His Apostles that specifically instructs the Church as to how to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant.
If you have any, please share.
JPT
If you have any, please share.
JPT
They had not attained to the law of righteousness because they sought it not by Faith.
The Word; the Commandments contained in the Book of the Law; that which was written with ink and on Tables of stone . These are through and of Christ. If Christ is in the heart and mouth they are in our heart and mouth; THIS IS the FAITH IN WHICH WE PREACH; this the New Covenant. . This is the contrast that is being brought out by Paul when he paraphrased Deut 30:12-14 in Romans 10:4-8.
If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment,which I command thee this day, ( hearken unto the voice of the LORD; keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart) it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word ( his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law,) is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
(Deu 30:10-14 KJV)
For Christ ( the Word; his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law in the heart and mouth; THE FAITH IN WHICH WE PREACH); is the end of the law (that which is written with ink on parchment and on Tables of Stone) for righteousness to every one that believeth. For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ ( the Word; his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law but now is in the heart and mouth; THE FAITH IN WHICH WE PREACH) down from above) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ ( the Word; his commandments and his statutes which are written in the book of the law but now is in the heart and mouth; THE FAITH IN WHICH WE PREACH)again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word ( Christ; His commandments and his statutes which are written in the book of the law is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
(Rom 10:4-8 KJV)
2 Corinthians 3 speaks of the ministration changing. How GOD'S will is to be proclaimed and lived; Not how we are to live but how we are to proclaim it. These text proclaim the same truth that is revealed in Romans 10:6-8
Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared (shown to be) to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart ( Christ; the Word in the the heart and mouth. The Law written in the heart and mind; the Faith in which we preach; Christ in us the hope of Glory). And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God ( for it is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure); Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament (through the fleshy tables of the heart ( Christ; the Word in the the heart and mouth. The Law written in the heart and mind; the Faith in which we preach; Christ in us the hope of Glory). ; not of the letter, but of the spirit (the Word; the Law through Christ in the heart, mind and mouth): for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
(2Co 3:3-6 KJV)
The Word; the Commandments contained in the Book of the Law; that which was written with ink and on Tables of stone . These are through and of Christ. If Christ is in the heart and mouth they are in our heart and mouth; THIS IS the FAITH IN WHICH WE PREACH; this the New Covenant. . This is the contrast that is being brought out by Paul when he paraphrased Deut 30:12-14 in Romans 10:4-8.
If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment,which I command thee this day, ( hearken unto the voice of the LORD; keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart) it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word ( his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law,) is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
(Deu 30:10-14 KJV)
For Christ ( the Word; his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law in the heart and mouth; THE FAITH IN WHICH WE PREACH); is the end of the law (that which is written with ink on parchment and on Tables of Stone) for righteousness to every one that believeth. For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ ( the Word; his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law but now is in the heart and mouth; THE FAITH IN WHICH WE PREACH) down from above) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ ( the Word; his commandments and his statutes which are written in the book of the law but now is in the heart and mouth; THE FAITH IN WHICH WE PREACH)again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word ( Christ; His commandments and his statutes which are written in the book of the law is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
(Rom 10:4-8 KJV)
2 Corinthians 3 speaks of the ministration changing. How GOD'S will is to be proclaimed and lived; Not how we are to live but how we are to proclaim it. These text proclaim the same truth that is revealed in Romans 10:6-8
Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared (shown to be) to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart ( Christ; the Word in the the heart and mouth. The Law written in the heart and mind; the Faith in which we preach; Christ in us the hope of Glory). And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God ( for it is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure); Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament (through the fleshy tables of the heart ( Christ; the Word in the the heart and mouth. The Law written in the heart and mind; the Faith in which we preach; Christ in us the hope of Glory). ; not of the letter, but of the spirit (the Word; the Law through Christ in the heart, mind and mouth): for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
(2Co 3:3-6 KJV)
Matthew 9:16-17
"No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment, for the patch will pull away from the garment, making the tear worse. Neither do people pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst; the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved."
new wine uses 'neo'
new wineskins uses 'kainos'
we don't sew patches onto the old wineskin. He makes new ones.
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
that's 'kaine' both times. and it says the old ((contrasting)) is passed away.
two Adams. Christ is not 'renewed Adam' is He?
"No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment, for the patch will pull away from the garment, making the tear worse. Neither do people pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst; the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved."
new wine uses 'neo'
new wineskins uses 'kainos'
we don't sew patches onto the old wineskin. He makes new ones.
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
that's 'kaine' both times. and it says the old ((contrasting)) is passed away.
two Adams. Christ is not 'renewed Adam' is He?
Yes there is.
There remaineth therefore a rest (Sabbath keeping) to the people of God. For (because) he that is entered (past tense because this rest is the GOSPEL) into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
(Heb 4:9-10 KJV)
As GOD did from HIS is a DIRECT COMPARISON. GOD did not cease from trying to work out HIS own righteousness outside of Christ. GOD rested the Seventh Day from all HIS work which HE had made. Physical labor not Spiritual!
There remaineth therefore a rest (Sabbath keeping) to the people of God. For (because) he that is entered (past tense because this rest is the GOSPEL) into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
(Heb 4:9-10 KJV)
As GOD did from HIS is a DIRECT COMPARISON. GOD did not cease from trying to work out HIS own righteousness outside of Christ. GOD rested the Seventh Day from all HIS work which HE had made. Physical labor not Spiritual!
So now because you don't understand the difference between New - Kainos, and New - Neos, you are going to make up ridiculous Straw man arguments?
And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise. Galatians 3:15-16
Do you understand who made covenant with Abraham?
When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly.” Genesis 17:1-2
Do you understand who preached the Gospel to Abraham?
And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” Galatians 3:8
Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 8:56-59
JPT
God didn't start working again on day 8.
He rested on the eighth day too. And the ninth.
He's still resting.
Your circular reasoning is still false in the way you apply it here too. Its not a sabbath keeping that is given to Gods People. Its Rest.
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
That means that a person who has come to Christ rests constantly and does not look back to the law in which he is dead to. There is no need for a Christian to emulate the jew and continue their work at the law trying to rest only on Saturdays.
Unless they don't understand what Christ has done for them and they don't understand what the law says.
He rested on the eighth day too. And the ninth.
He's still resting.
Your circular reasoning is still false in the way you apply it here too. Its not a sabbath keeping that is given to Gods People. Its Rest.
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
That means that a person who has come to Christ rests constantly and does not look back to the law in which he is dead to. There is no need for a Christian to emulate the jew and continue their work at the law trying to rest only on Saturdays.
Unless they don't understand what Christ has done for them and they don't understand what the law says.
-
1
- Show all
can I go through the new testament replacing Kainos with renewed instead of new, and the old testament replacing Chodesh with renewed instead of new?
or can I not?
isn't that the argument?
or is it only in one or two places, because of a doctrine rather than a grammatical fact, we should change it?
translation or interpretation?
or can I not?
isn't that the argument?
or is it only in one or two places, because of a doctrine rather than a grammatical fact, we should change it?
translation or interpretation?
-
1
- Show all
- Why then is the New Covenant and the Gospel associated with Abraham?
And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. Galatians 3:8
- Why then are those who are of faith, called sons of Abraham?
Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. Galatians 3:7
Why does the blessing of Abraham from the Abrahamic Covenant, come upon the Gentiles if the New Covenant is not associated with the Abrahamic Covenant?
- that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Galatians 3:14
JPT
once again, the need to explain this - Hebrews is a letter. you cannot just use one small piece to push an agenda.
in Hebrews 3, the writer explains how, through unbelief and disobedience , Israel was not allowed into the Promised Land. the writer called it a rest.
then in 4, the writer tells us not to rebel and let unbelief cause us to miss the rest God still offers.
no command to keep the Sabbath. just using something that the jews who , you know, Hebrews, were very familiar with, to explain how we are to believe on Christ to enter into the rest.
in Hebrews 3, the writer explains how, through unbelief and disobedience , Israel was not allowed into the Promised Land. the writer called it a rest.
then in 4, the writer tells us not to rebel and let unbelief cause us to miss the rest God still offers.
no command to keep the Sabbath. just using something that the jews who , you know, Hebrews, were very familiar with, to explain how we are to believe on Christ to enter into the rest.
Avoiding the questions won't help you to understand, what you obviously do not.
- Why then is the New Covenant and the Gospel associated with Abraham?
And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. Galatians 3:8
- Why then are those who are of faith, called sons of Abraham?
Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. Galatians 3:7
Why does the blessing of Abraham from the Abrahamic Covenant, come upon the Gentiles if the New Covenant is not associated with the Abrahamic Covenant?
- that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Galatians 3:14
JPT
buddy with respect you are the one avoiding a question, thinking you're teaching me something I already well know. scroll back a page or two, Hiz has been saying Kainos means renewed not new, and Chodesh the same. I'm not seeing it and I'm trying to puzzle that out.
not to mention you ain't answered whether or why a burning lamp and smoking firepot were apparently not useful for establishing an everlasting covenant, so that it had to be ratified much later.
not to mention you ain't answered whether or why a burning lamp and smoking firepot were apparently not useful for establishing an everlasting covenant, so that it had to be ratified much later.
The Rest to which Israel was to enter was the Gospel. This is testified via verses 1 and 2. If they and we enter into this rest; the Gospel GOD speaks of the Sabbath again verses 3 and 4.
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For HE spake in a certain place (Mt Sinai in the giving of the Commandments; because that is the instance to which GOD spoke of the Seventh Day) of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again (HE speaks), If they shall enter into my rest (the Gospel). Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein (the Gospel, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in (the Gospel) because of unbelief (rebellious hardhearted stiff necked disobedience): Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore (back to verses 3 and 4) a rest (a Sabbath Keeping) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
As GOD did from HIS is a DIRECT COMPARISON. We cease from work like GOD did. GOD did not cease from trying to work out HIS own righteousness outside of Christ. GOD rested the Seventh Day from all HIS work which HE had made. Physical labor not Spiritual!
(Heb 4:1-10 KJV)
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For HE spake in a certain place (Mt Sinai in the giving of the Commandments; because that is the instance to which GOD spoke of the Seventh Day) of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again (HE speaks), If they shall enter into my rest (the Gospel). Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein (the Gospel, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in (the Gospel) because of unbelief (rebellious hardhearted stiff necked disobedience): Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore (back to verses 3 and 4) a rest (a Sabbath Keeping) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
As GOD did from HIS is a DIRECT COMPARISON. We cease from work like GOD did. GOD did not cease from trying to work out HIS own righteousness outside of Christ. GOD rested the Seventh Day from all HIS work which HE had made. Physical labor not Spiritual!
(Heb 4:1-10 KJV)