If I said that this was a "capital punsishment" why would you think I was talking about a punishment to the parent or the men of the city? If found guilty the punishment is for the son.
In post 3181 you said:
"Deu 21:18-21 contains both laws that a son is breaking, and a penalty (capital punishment in this case) for breaking laws. Like I've stated many times, the messiah's body paid for the earthly penalties (curses) associated with breaking "old" covenant laws."
If the passage said only "an unruly child shall be put to death", I might agree with that premise. But the passage includes instructions to third parties on specific actions that they are required to perform when encountering an unruly child (in various steps of the process).
The question in play is still "what is considered an earthly law?" vs "what is considered an unconditional law of God?" We've had some reshaping of this idea in our discussion, sometimes it has been referred to as "man's law" vs "God's law", etc. The principle remains the same. If we are claiming that some parts of the OT law apply and some don't, where is the hardline and why is that line placed where it is?
We could interpret each of the Mosaic 10 commandments to be earthly laws that exist in the same category as "penalties", as they were essentially penalties or restrictions applied to the Hebrews under Moses. That often isn't the intended interpretation. But how do we definitively resolve this categorisation issue without creating inconsistencies or disputes over interpretation?
The last lengthy conversation I've had with someone about the OT laws applying or not applying limited his conjecture to the OT iterations of the Mosaic 10 commandments. For better or for worse, I haven't seen any real consistency between advocates of OT laws applying today. For anyone seeking a good relationship with God, we all have the best intentions to do what is right, but our conclusions and interpretations sometimes take us in different directions. I still feel that the covenant of Christianity can be understood in entirety by the NT alone. Every commandment that you need can be found in the NT.
What scripture proves this claim?
What scripture demonstrates this claim, you mean?
“And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.” - Colossians 2:13-15 KJV
"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law." - Hebrews 7:12 KJV
There are more, but this becomes a merry-go-round of differing interpretations based on these core passages.
So do you believe that Deu 21:18-21 is speaking of young children that are alcoholics?
Could it refer to young alcoholics? Certainly. Also, based on the phrasing of Deu 21:18-21, "drunkard" and "glutton" may just be examples of unruly behaviour and each many not necessarily be required in order for a child to be considered unruly.
These questions you can study more in the OT to gather your opinion on, but I don't see how they are relevant to God's law being abolished.
I take from the perspective that the law of Moses has been "abolished" in the sense that its observation is no longer required (unless one feels compelled to do so). Biblical references to "law" can sometimes be confusing especially when multiple senses or concepts are referenced in the same verse.
Bottom line is.... stoning (capital punishment) is a penalty for breaking law. It is a "curse of the law". The penalties for sin from the "old" covenant were paid with the Messiah's body.
There seemed to be many curses of the OT law aside from capital punishment, even just in Deuteronomy. I'm sure the topic of "curse of law" has quite a bit of depth to it by itself. I'm not terribly familiar with what is considered a "curse of law" aside from the NT concepts of death without spiritual life in Christ.
People get hung up on these spiritual commandments and think they are some kind of new laws...
The New Testament represents a set of laws that are different in some cases from the OT laws. Some might want to interpret the NT as just a "dressed up" version of the OT, but the interpretation that resonates with me is that it is its own standalone covenant with its own standalone law, and that this standalone covenant is the sole inheritor of the promise given to Abraham ("seed of the promise").
Let me share a different translation... ISV:
Galatians 5:14
KJV follows the original Greek better. And then comes the question of whether "law" mentioned here is the OT law (law of Moses) or NT law (law of Christ).
1. This court system no longer exists and the failure to follow the Fathers instructions have already resulted in the Deu 28 curses.
This position affirms the case that 1 John 5:3 is not discussing all commandments.
That is problem with with lawlessness... Without the law so much is left up to interpretation. What love is to you can be totally different to the next person. What does it mean to love God though?
Lawless? who is lawless? Some people aren't able to experience God's love and have no idea what it is (parable of the tares and the wheat). Those in Christ know God's love. Those that aren't don't.
The law of Christ is not lawlessness, it just isn't legalistic like the law of Moses. There are commandments in the NT, and guidance given, but the core message is about love and letting love guide your choices and the essence of who you are (which ultimately may lead you to following OT rules anyway).
1 John 5:3
3 For this demonstrates our love for God: We keep his commandments, and his commandments are not difficult
This passage doesn't necessarily refer to OT commandments (but it can).
Surprise surprise, this is actually a statement that I agree with. "Fulfill" means to make complete. The law is incomplete with just the physical component. If your heart is not in the right place the actions don't carry the same weight.
Then the question comes to whether the "fulfillment" is supplementary, complementary, or substitutionary.
These are the type of things that the Pharisees would have added, and some of these things you can still find in the jewish talmud today. But of course, these are not the Father's law.... and following the law correctly (physically and spiritually) only leads to blessings.
The Talmud has some pretty hateful antiChristian text, but there are some interesting bits and pieces hypothetically transcribed from before 0 AD that add possible contexts to different passages in the Bible. An example is the meaning of wine as a cure for sadness in the Talmud and that Jesus turns water into wine. Or that an "animal that falls into a pit is not to be saved" is a cryptic way of saying "If a non-Jew is in danger, you (as a Jew) are not to rescue the non-Jew from danger" which reveals an interesting second possible meaning (another "blasphemy") when Jesus discussed drawing an ass from a well on the Sabbath.
The curse to eve (woman kind) was a generational curse. Just like the Messiah doesn't stop laws that the Father put in place to be carried out forever, he doesn't stop blessings or curses that were to be carried out forever.
Romans 9 gives an example of a promise given in the OT to Abraham and his seed and how it actually only applies to Christ as the seed (and those in Christ). A promise that might appear to have an intuitive application in the OT might not be so. The correct or potentially correct contexts of OT promises/blessings/curses needs special attention.