Sabbath

[Kidron]

No, Adam sinned.


Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— Romans 5:12

You verse does not stay that Adam sinned.
It says that sin entered the world and death through adam.
Adam's disobedience allowed Satan to become "god of this world".......and that is where the evil started, and from this situation..... God gave Moses the Law to define it, and show us what we are become as a result of Adam's FALL. = "sinners".
So because of Adam's disobedience "sin entered the world"........
Yet, until the Law is given, transgression is not revealed as sin.

Once the Law was revealed, then WE were revealed as sinful and sinners, "under the law".

Lucifer was Iniquity itself, yet, sin is not revealed until the Law, as .....>"where there is no law, there is no Transgression".

 

[MalikB]

Malikb,

What i notice about heretics over the years, is that they are always found lost in some symbolic verse, not understanding that its symbolic,..... because the bible is CLOSED TO THEM....... as they """"wrest the scriptures to their own destruction"""".

That's ironic, I find the same thing to those to those that prioritize Paul's writings over James, Peter, Mathew, John, Luke, etc.

 

[justpassinthrough]

You verse does not stay that Adam sinned.
It says that sin entered the world and death through sin.
So because of Adam's disobedience "sin entered the world"........
Yet, until the Law is given, transgression is not revealed.

Lucifer was Iniquity itself, yet, sin is not revealed until the Law, as .....>"where there is no law, there is no Transgression".

Romans 5:12 definitely says Adam sinned and his sin spread to all mankind.



Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—Romans 5:12



For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous. Romans 5:19


You read these verses and claim Adam was sinless?


If Adam didn’t “sin” then why did sin and death spread to all men?




JPT

 

[Kidron]

There was no law?


Then why did Adam’s sin, a violation of God’s law, spread to all men?

Adam didn't violate any "law"....as there was no Law till Moses.

"The law came by MOSES< and Grace and Truth came by JESUS">

Do you see Mose in the Garden with Adam?
Where are those 10 commandments?

So, sin entered the world, because of Adam's disobedience, but, where there is no LAW, there is no Transgression.

Its the law that defines "sin".

 

[Kidron]

Romans 5:12 definitely says Adam sinned and his sin spread to all mankind.

You can't read?

You verse does not say that Adam was a sinner.
It says that sin came into the world through Adam.

Yet, "sin" isn't defined as "sin" until the LAW defines it.

 

[justpassinthrough]

Adam didn't violate an "law"....as there was no Law till Moses.

Wrong.

It’s the law of sin and death.



And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” Genesis 2:16-17

• in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

Eating of that tree violated God’s command, which was His law.


Disobedience to God is sin.


The law of sin and death.


Paul talks about it extensively in Romans 7.





JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

You can't read?

You verse does not say that Adam was a sinner.
It says that sin came into the world through Adam.

Yet, "sin" isn't defined as "sin" until the LAW defines it.

Adam committed sin by eating of the tree that God forbid him to, and death resulted.

 

[MalikB]

You verse does not stay that Adam sinned.
It says that sin entered the world and death through adam.
Adam's disobedience allowed Satan to become "god of this world".......and that is where the evil started, and from this situation..... God gave Moses the Law to define it, and show us what we are become as a result of Adam's FALL. = "sinners".
So because of Adam's disobedience "sin entered the world"........
Yet, until the Law is given, transgression is not revealed as sin.

Once the Law was revealed, then WE were revealed as sinful and sinners, "under the law".

Lucifer was Iniquity itself, yet, sin is not revealed until the Law, as .....>"where there is no law, there is no Transgression".

Are you just talking about this one verse or do you believe Adam never sinned because sin did not exist until Moses?

 

[justpassinthrough]

You can't read?

You obviously can’t read. LOL

Your inability to read has led you to the conclusion that Adam never sinned.


LOL


Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—Romans 5:12



For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous. Romans 5:19




JPT

 

[Kidron]

That's ironic, I find the same thing to those to those that prioritize Paul's writings over James, Peter, Mathew, John, Luke, etc.

MalikB,
What you said, shows a distinct lack of understanding regarding the NT.

Here are a few clues.. for you.

Paul said...>"be a follower of ME, as i follow Christ", ..........and no other Apostle told you to do that.
And that is not a suggestion. And when you then reply...>"i follow Jesus", then you are showing more ignorance of the NT.
So, realize that before you show it, again.

Paul wrote nearly all the New Testament.....

The "Gospel of the Grace of God", that is the "preaching of the Cross'".....is what Paul defined 3x as "my Gospel".

"Justification by Faith"....came from Paul's Epistles.

In 2nd Peter, ....Peter said of Paul's letters, that he was READING at the time....that they are equal to the TORAH. (Old Testament).
You will recall that at that time, there was no New Testament created. All the apostles had was the TORAH, that Jesus read from, as well.
That is an apostle,...the apostle Peter...... saying that the writings of Paul, the letters.....at that time.........Peter said they are EQUAL TO THE TORAH.
He was right.....as Paul's letters became MOST of the New Testament, and all of the Church Doctrine for the Body of Christ.

MalikB.......You are in the dark about all this, same as you are about the Law and Grace...... and apparently most things related to PAULINE THEOLOGY or this........... Romans 3:21-28

 

[justpassinthrough]

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—Romans 5:12



For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous. Romans 5:19




Disobedience to God is sin.


Adam’s sin and death spread to all mankind.






JPT

 

[Kidron]

You obviously can't Read...

For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous. Romans 5:19

I can both read and think.
You should try it.

Notice your verse says that many were made sinners, but it does not say that Adam Sinned.

So, let me explain this to you again for the 6th time..

Now you see this word......"disobedience".
Notice that the Apostle Paul is careful not to call it "sin".....
That is because this Apostle knows that what Adam did was what is found as Lucifer's issue.
Paul does not call it sin, because "where there is no LAW, there is no Transgression".

But there is iniquity and disobedience, exclusive of the Law., as the Law came by Moses, and Adam was created before Moses gave us the Law.

 

[Kidron]

Adam committed sin by eating of the tree that God forbid him to, and death resulted.

No, he committed disobedience.

"""Sin is not inputed when there is no Law., as its by the LAW, that the knowledge of sin, is found"

All this means is........ the same EVIL and INIQUITY, that is disobedience, is not defined as SIN, until the Law is given by Moses, that defines it as sin.

 

[Kidron]

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world,

Yes, sin entered the world, as "disobedience", yet, it had entered the world in Satan, before Adam showed up.

So, the difference is, Adam was the first HUMAN, so, His disobedience, is what was later defined by Moses's Law as Sin.
And this disobedience became our "adamic nature" and the "fall". long before the Law was given by Moses that defined all this as Sin.

 

[MalikB]

MalikB,
What you said, shows a distinct lack of understanding regarding the NT.

Here are a few clues.. for you.

Paul said...>"be a follower of ME, as i follow Christ", ..........and no other Apostle told you to do that.
And that is not a suggestion. And when you then reply...>"i follow Jesus", then you are showing more ignorance of the NT.
So, realize that before you show it, again.

Paul wrote nearly all the New Testament.....

The "Gospel of the Grace of God", that is the "preaching of the Cross'".....is what Paul defined 3x as "my Gospel".

"Justification by Faith"....came from Paul's Epistles.

In 2nd Peter, ....Peter said of Paul's letters, that he was READING at the time....that they are equal to the TORAH. (Old Testament).
You will recall that at that time, there was no New Testament created. All the apostles had was the TORAH, that Jesus read from, as well.
That is an apostle,...the apostle Peter...... saying that the writings of Paul, the letters.....at that time.........Peter said they are EQUAL TO THE TORAH.
He was right.....as Paul's letters became MOST of the New Testament, and all of the Church Doctrine for the Body of Christ.

MalikB.......You are in the dark about all this, same as you are about the Law and Grace...... and apparently most things related to PAULINE THEOLOGY or this........... Romans 3:21-28

What Paul says about himself does not change his level of Authority. James, Peter and John had more authority than other disciples, and all disciples had authority over Paul. In the same manner Moses' writings had authority over Isiah's and other old testament writings.

James refuted "Justification by faith" alone:

James 2:19-26

19 You believe that there is one God. That’s fine! Even the demons believe that and tremble with fear. 20 Do you want proof, you foolish person, that faith without actions is worthless? 21 Our ancestor Abraham was justified by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar, wasn’t he? 22 You see that his faith worked together with what he did, and by his actions his faith was made complete. 23 And so the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” And so he was called God’s friend. 24 You observe that a person is justified through actions and not through faith alone. 25 Likewise, Rahab the prostitute was justified through actions when she welcomed the messengers and sent them away on a different road, wasn’t she? 26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without actions is also dead.


The amount of writings he has does not effect his lever of authority. What scripture specifically states Paul's writings are "equal to Torah"??? What are supposed to be "followers of Christ" are now "followers of Paul" (or their interpretations of him).

 

[MalikB]

Yes, sin entered the world, as "disobedience", yet, it had entered the world in Satan, before Adam showed up.

So, the difference is, Adam was the first HUMAN, so, His disobedience, is what was later defined by Moses's Law as Sin.
And this disobedience became our "adamic nature" and the "fall". long before the Law was given by Moses that defined all this as Sin.

Romans 5:14

14 Nevertheless, death ruled from the time of Adam to Moses, even over those who did not sin in the same way Adam did when he disobeyed. He is a foreshadowing of the one who would come.


So... This is not defined as sin???

 

[Kidron]

What Paul says about himself does not change his level of Authority. James, Peter and John had more authority than other disciples,

Only Paul is the '"Apostle to the Gentiles" in the "time of the Gentiles".

So, that is a distinct office that was created for Paul, by Jesus The Christ..... as proven by the Fact that Jesus called Paul into this very ministry, after Jesus was back in Heaven.
He did this for no other Apostle, because only Paul is a "chosen vessel" with a divine purpose, which is NEW TESTAMENT DEFINED = to deliver to the body of Christ the : "Gospel of the Grace of God", as well as "church Doctrine".

MalikB......If you care to read a NT and not just cut and paste the same redundant unlearned verses that you found online or taken from your heretic's commentary, then you should read Acts 10.
In Acts of the Apostles, Chapter 10, you have Peter........and this is 10 yrs or more, after Christ is back in Heaven.
You will find Peter in ACTS 10....... is having to be taught that GENTILES can be saved.
He had NO IDEA, even 10 yrs or more, after Jesus ascended back into Heaven.

WHY NOT?
Because its PAUL who is the """""gentile apostle in the time of the Gentiles""""" who gives us all the revelation of "Justification by faith", and "the gift of Salvation< and "the Gift of Righteousness'.
All this came from PAUL.
You don't know this because you are very badly taught by your "church", whatever that is....

 

[posthuman]

Yep, didn't work (man's work) and kept it holy (set apart).

He is God. When was He not doing God's work?

So if i follow the instruction, 'whatever you do, do it as tho to the Lord' then i am keeping sabbath always, tho anyone who judges by mere appearances will accuse me, correct?

in fact, if my boss - or anyone at all - asks me to help him work on a saturday and i refuse, then i am guilty of breaking the command 'if someone compels you to go one mile, go with them two' is that not also correct?

 

[MalikB]

Only Paul is the '"Apostle to the Gentiles" in the "time of the Gentiles".

So, that is a distinct office that was created for Paul, by Jesus The Christ..... as proven by the Fact that Jesus called Paul into this very ministry, after Jesus was back in Heaven.
He did this for no other Apostle, because only Paul is a "chosen vessel" with a divine purpose, which is NEW TESTAMENT DEFINED = to deliver to the body of Christ the : "Gospel of the Grace of God", as well as "church Doctrine".

MalikB......If you care to read a NT and not just cut and paste the same redundant unlearned verses that you found online or taken from your heretic's commentary, then you should read Acts 10.
In Acts of the Apostles, Chapter 10, you have Peter........and this is 10 yrs or more, after Christ is back in Heaven.
You will find Peter in ACTS 10....... is having to be taught that GENTILES can be saved.
He had NO IDEA, even 10 yrs or more, after Jesus ascended back into Heaven.

WHY NOT?
Because its PAUL who is the """""gentile apostle in the time of the Gentiles""""" who gives us all the revelation of "Justification by faith", and "the gift of Salvation< and "the Gift of Righteousness'.
All this came from PAUL.
You don't know this because you are very badly taught by your "church", whatever that is....

If these are just my "unlearned verses" please share your interpretation of James 2:19-26...

 

[MalikB]

He is God. When was He not doing God's work?

So if i follow the instruction, 'whatever you do, do it as tho to the Lord' then i am keeping sabbath always, tho anyone who judges by mere appearances will accuse me, correct?

in fact, if my boss - or anyone at all - asks me to help him work on a saturday and i refuse, then i am guilty of breaking the command 'if someone compels you to go one mile, go with them two' is that not also correct?

"God" is just a title meaning "authority" (boss, ruler...one that is in charge). When I was referring to "God's work" I specifically meant work that originated from His Father... The Most High God. An example of man's work would be buying or selling... Hence why he kicked everyone out of the temple that was doing such in Mathew 21:12 / Mar 11:15.

The spirit of the law is the WHY we do what we do.... I personally believe that in most cases helping a boss is not keeping the physical or Spirit of the law. If your boss was sick and you went and brought him some tea on the sabbath, it is out of the same love that the law was intended for.... however if you go to work to send some emails for him and write up a report; I consider that man's work and forbidden on the Sabbath.