Rightly divided

[John146]

Obedience follows justification.

NOAH
But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. (Gen 6:8) = JUSTIFICATION

Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he (Gen 6:22) = OBEDIENCE

ABRAHAM
And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness. (Gen 15:6) = JUSTIFICATION

And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. (Gen 22:12) = OBEDIENCE

Not sure why you’re equating those words with justification. When was Abraham justified? Genesis 15 or 22?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

So did Jesus tell the young ruler what he really needed to be saved, or did Jesus lead him onto a path that would not save him?

Yes JESUS told him what he needed to do since he was looking at JESUS as a man rather than looking to GOD to save him JESUS told him to keep the commandments and we know that no man can keep the Ten Commandments,only GOD In CHRIST could keep the Ten Commandments ,so then with his OWN strength the rich young ruler would fall short of the glory of GOD but If he would ask for mercy he would have called on GOD to save him and received grace through FAITH.

 

[crossnote]

When I ask questions, I do not do it with sarcasm or as though I am speaking down to you...

...Look into your heart, I grew up in your doctrine, it took a tragedy in my life to get me out. .

You may not be speaking down to me but you sure do a lot of assuming. You don't even know my doctrine. You asked me a few questions to formulate a strawman of something that does not exist.

If you and I were to follow every word that our lord and savior taught, and not understand the difference between wholesome words like “love” , the doctrine of godliness from the perspective, and dispinsation from which it was preached, you would lose your soul In a life of self condemanation, constant failure, miss the beauty and gift of salvation through faith “without works” for those that believe.

I am not under any delusion that I can follow the Commands of our Lord. My position is that we have been once and for all gloriously saved at Calvary and have passed from condemnation unto life (Jn 5:24; Rom 8:1). We are now in the process of being conformed into His image through the new birth/work of the Holy Spirit using the truths of His Word and if necessary, the trials of this life. We will one day be unhindered with sin when we receive our new body.

Sin...,a waste of time? Satan's ploy is to turn our hearts away from God to anything else (thus a hardening of our hearts and subsequent fruitlessness).

I'm not a Red Letter Christian and most of my theology is derived from Pauline writings, but I see no contradiction from what Paul wrote and what Jesus taught despite the misunderstandings of some caught up in hyper-dispensationalism. (I hope that is not you, as I have been there and know much of it's trappings).

 

[Shilohsfoal]

If you tried to apply the book of Matthew to your life....Paul’s epistles would not make much sense

From the book of Mathew i learned how jesus teaches his disciples how to pray.
That was the first thing i learned from Jesus and it led to me recieving forgiveness and the baptism,of the holy ghost.
Without the book of Mathew,Pauls epistles wouldnt make much sence to me.

 

[Embankment]

He has to disregard the teachings of Jesus because they conflict so seriously with Paul. How do we reconcile the 2?

Simple. Jesus lived in the old covenant. On his death we have a new. Paul taught in the new.

 

[Rightlydivided]

You said this in your first post
“Follow Paul, as he is the apostle to the Gentiles....you have no business in the 4 gospels, in which was Christ’s earthly ministry....under the law......I post this for edification,”
It looks to be contradictory to me .
Blessings
Bill

Yes, I was speaking on the subject of “securing your salvation within the dispensation of grace” many things can look contradictory if taken out of context.....plenty of that here, dig in

 

[Nehemiah6]

Not sure why you’re equating those words with justification. When was Abraham justified? Genesis 15 or 22?

Genesis 15.

ROMANS 4
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

 

[Rightlydivided]

From the book of Mathew i learned how jesus teaches his disciples how to pray.
That was the first thing i learned from Jesus and it led to me recieving forgiveness and the baptism,of the holy ghost.
Without the book of Mathew,Pauls epistles wouldnt make much sence to me.[/QUOTE

The kingdom was put on hold....along with the Gospel of the Kingdom that was to usher it in....It is unfortunate but also a blessing because through the unbelieving Jew, came the grafting in of the gentile....now with one Gospel, we are all saved through faith in Christ....

The Lords Prayer speaks of the Kingdom. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven....I believe it was when Steven was stoned to death, he saw the heavens open and Christ at the right hand of god...that was when the persecution of the Church started, when Saul (future Paul) was introduced to usher in the gentiles and all under grace.....until the millineal reign.....if I am not mistaken, I haven’t been in those scriptures in awhile

 

[fredoheaven]

We can reconcile it by saying this...

All scripture is for us, but not about us...I do not mean to ignore it as though it isn’t the inspired word of god....all scripture is needed for study and to make sense of the dispinsation we reside in..and where we are in Gods plan..as they are all tied together. The gospels of Matthew for instance, were preached during the dispinsation of the law, the gospel of Paul was preached during the dispinsation of grace.....2 completely different programs....The dispinsation of the law was a performance based program.....We are now in the dispinsation of Grace (Faith WITHOUT works) monumental difference!!!

Isn't it interesting to note that even in the dispensation of the law there is only one message of salvation. Isn't still by grace through faith?

 

[Rightlydivided]

Isn't it interesting to note that even in the dispensation of the law there is only one message of salvation. Isn't still by grace through faith?

“Works” was part of this “performance based test” during the dispensation of the law......you had to do works....same as the doctrine of today with many churches you are surrounded by....”works” is weaved in through out the message, Matthews is preached to congregations all over, without context, as though its members were to apply “works” to salvation....(repentenance as an admission) Salvation is a free gift through Grace, and faith in Jesus Christ, anything less than free, and it is not a gift

 

[Rightlydivided]

You may not be speaking down to me but you sure do a lot of assuming. You don't even know my doctrine. You asked me a few questions to formulate a strawman of something that does not exist.

You said that I have some explaining to do....I did so in the nicest way I could, I was not trying to set you up, I have a genuine interest in your views, I apologize if it seemed like I assumed something, that didn’t exist. Truthfully I learn a lot when I ask questions, or try to answer them.



I am not under any delusion that I can follow the Commands of our Lord. My position is that we have been once and for all gloriously saved at Calvary and have passed from condemnation unto life (Jn 5:24; Rom 8:1). We are now in the process of being conformed into His image through the new birth/work of the Holy Spirit using the truths of His Word and if necessary, the trials of this life. We will one day be unhindered with sin when we receive our new body.

Sin...,a waste of time? Satan's ploy is to turn our hearts away from God to anything else (thus a hardening of our hearts and subsequent fruitlessness).

Yes, on one hand we know where sin is derived, on the other we know the victory on the cross and what Christ did...So when I say “waste of time” it means that it has no power over me. It means that God will not judge me for it.....men that lack in faith may judge me for my doctrine, but they cannot judge me for my life, as I do not actively, openly sin, I do not put stumbling blocks before my brethren, God keeps no record of sin, and I believe that by understanding that his son truly died for the sin of the world, we can no longer judge our brethren for it...for how can we? Would it not rob the glory of the victory on the cross as Christ crushed the head of the serpent with his heal? If your brethren is openly sinning, casting stumbling blocks, he does not need judged or treated as an unbeliever....he needs more knowledge of the word, not condemnation from his church

I'm not a Red Letter Christian and most of my theology is derived from Pauline writings, but I see no contradiction from what Paul wrote and what Jesus taught despite the misunderstandings of some caught up in hyper-dispensationalism. (I hope that is not you, as I have been there and know much of it's trappings).

 

[Rightlydivided]

You may not be speaking down to me but you sure do a lot of assuming. You don't even know my doctrine. You asked me a few questions to formulate a strawman of something that does not exist.



I am not under any delusion that I can follow the Commands of our Lord. My position is that we have been once and for all gloriously saved at Calvary and have passed from condemnation unto life (Jn 5:24; Rom 8:1). We are now in the process of being conformed into His image through the new birth/work of the Holy Spirit using the truths of His Word and if necessary, the trials of this life. We will one day be unhindered with sin when we receive our new body.

Sin...,a waste of time? Satan's ploy is to turn our hearts away from God to anything else (thus a hardening of our hearts and subsequent fruitlessness).

I'm not a Red Letter Christian and most of my theology is derived from Pauline writings, but I see no contradiction from what Paul wrote and what Jesus taught despite the misunderstandings of some caught up in hyper-dispensationalism. (I hope that is not you, as I have been there and know much of it's trappings).

I really have not educated myself on all the “classes” that have been formed over all the quarreling, I am trying to refer to prayer for understanding
...truthfully I am still learning so much everyday.....I most definitely have a lot of growing to do....I will say, I am learning to empty my cup daily.....especially coffee!🙂

 

[Rightlydivided]

Simple. Jesus lived in the old covenant. On his death we have a new. Paul taught in the new.

It is not supposed to be that simple!!🙂

 

[Rightlydivided]

Genesis 15.

ROMANS 4
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

I understand but....given the context, what are you getting at? What was it, 400 years later when Moses received the Law?

 

[Matthew55]

Yes JESUS told him what he needed to do since he was looking at JESUS as a man rather than looking to GOD to save him JESUS told him to keep the commandments and we know that no man can keep the Ten Commandments,only GOD In CHRIST could keep the Ten Commandments ,so then with his OWN strength the rich young ruler would fall short of the glory of GOD but If he would ask for mercy he would have called on GOD to save him and received grace through FAITH.

So because he was looking at Jesus as a man, Jesus put him on the path to destruction. Jesus told him to do something that he could never do and would find himself short of the glory of God. Do you think Jesus had that kind of mentality that he would tell the man the wrong path to eternal life?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

So because he was looking at Jesus as a man, Jesus put him on the path to destruction. Jesus told him to do something that he could never do and would find himself short of the glory of God. Do you think Jesus had that kind of mentality that he would tell the man the wrong path to eternal life?

JESUS was fully GOD and fully man and we have a choice to make.

 

[crossnote]

If your brethren is openly sinning, casting stumbling blocks, he does not need judged or treated as an unbeliever....he needs more knowledge of the word, not condemnation from his church

That depends. If he continues doing the sinning after a warning or two, he should be treated as an unbeliever until he repents. If he is doing it out of ignorance as a true believer, and is warned, he will repent and will not need restoration.

 

[Rightlydivided]

That depends. If he continues doing the sinning after a warning or two, he should be treated as an unbeliever until he repents. If he is doing it out of ignorance as a true believer, and is warned, he will repent and will not need restoration.

That depends. If he continues doing the sinning after a warning or two, he should be treated as an unbeliever until he repents. If he is doing it out of ignorance as a true believer, and is warned, he will repent and will not need restoration.

That depends. If he continues doing the sinning after a warning or two, he should be treated as an unbeliever until he repents. If he is doing it out of ignorance as a true believer, and is warned, he will repent and will not need restoration.

What is your definition of repent?

 

[crossnote]

What is your definition of repent?

Faith is heads; Repentance is tails...same coin, can't be separated.
IOW, when someone turns TOWARDS the North (faith), he automatically turns AWAY from the South (repentance). I suppose you can add in contrition as the catalyst.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Faith is heads; Repentance is tails...same coin, can't be separated.
IOW, when someone turns TOWARDS the North (faith), he automatically turns AWAY from the South (repentance). I suppose you can add in contrition as the catalyst.

Faith is heads; Repentance is tails...same coin, can't be separated.
IOW, when someone turns TOWARDS the North (faith), he automatically turns AWAY from the South (repentance). I suppose you can add in contrition as the catalyst.

con·science
/ˈkän(t)SHəns/
noun

1. an inner feeling or voice viewed as acting as a guide to the rightness or wrongness of one's behavior.
   "he had a guilty conscience about his desires"

It’s In everyone naturally born person to know at some point If they are guilty of breaking the law of GOD unless they are damaged In a way that they are not aware of,I’m talking about the conscience.

If the person becomes aware that they are wrong then sin Is Imputed but sin Is not Imputed where there Is no law.
+++
Romans 7:7-10
King James Version

7 What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin [was] dead.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

10 And the commandment, which [was ordained] to life, I found [to be] unto death.