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there is something very wrong with your understanding
perfection is impossible for a human being
there I said it again
smh
perfection is impossible for a human being
there I said it again
smh
Heb 10:14, For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
1Th 5:23, And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 5:24, Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
1Jo 3:9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
There, I said it again.
S
that's a pretty severe rebuke from one Christian to another. I think you need to check where your rebukes are coming from
I don't speak from the pit and the scripture you are quoting has been taken out of context....shook into the air and then fallen to the ground from where you picked it up and put it together as best you could
let's see....you have Hebrews, I Thessalonians and I John mashed together to show you are or have somehow become perfect
the author of Hebrews is speaking of the process of sanctification. and the completion of the process in which we are saved THROUGH GRACE, a gift from the Father. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. James 1:17
God has not changed. He commended one sacrifice...His Son..to pay for our crimes. not our doing. God's doing, Christ's doing and the work of the Holy Spirit in us. God is not congratulating us on our perfecting; we cannot make ourselves perfect no matter how much we sit in a monk's cold cell and flagellate ourselves
I Thessalonians...I do not see anything in those verses to indicate to me I can make myself perfect. who called us to salvation? who will do 'it? sanctified by whom? not too much about me, myself and I in there
now about John....cannot sin means to continue to live sinfully. John indicates if we sin (meaning the distinct possibility as any person still earthbound will agree)we are forgiven but if we say we have no sin we are liars; continuing in sin meaning no repentance.. does not mean we can make ourselves sinless...this is not the correct understanding. you cannot take one verse out of context and match it to your understanding
we renew our minds by the word...the Bible...and the renewal occurs when we agree with what God says and change our sinful thoughts to the truth
you might notice how John, in verse 4, speaks of anyone breaking the law as sin..but then he goes on to say 5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
we are no longer under the law so John is referring to those without Christ and then he goes on to say that we know why Christ came...to take away our sins...so Jesus takes away our sins...we cannot remove them ourselves
John is writing to Christians and comparing those without salvation to those who are saved. nowhere is it stated we can purge ourselves of all sin and be perfect
there is actually something called 'the doctrine of sin'. in there you will find the expression 'sin is lawlessness' we are not without the law in that Christ fulfilled it on our behalf and we are no longer condemned by it, He said 'IT IS FINISHED' and for those who will by faith accept that, it is true. amen
I don't speak from the pit and the scripture you are quoting has been taken out of context....shook into the air and then fallen to the ground from where you picked it up and put it together as best you could
let's see....you have Hebrews, I Thessalonians and I John mashed together to show you are or have somehow become perfect
the author of Hebrews is speaking of the process of sanctification. and the completion of the process in which we are saved THROUGH GRACE, a gift from the Father. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. James 1:17
God has not changed. He commended one sacrifice...His Son..to pay for our crimes. not our doing. God's doing, Christ's doing and the work of the Holy Spirit in us. God is not congratulating us on our perfecting; we cannot make ourselves perfect no matter how much we sit in a monk's cold cell and flagellate ourselves
I Thessalonians...I do not see anything in those verses to indicate to me I can make myself perfect. who called us to salvation? who will do 'it? sanctified by whom? not too much about me, myself and I in there
now about John....cannot sin means to continue to live sinfully. John indicates if we sin (meaning the distinct possibility as any person still earthbound will agree)we are forgiven but if we say we have no sin we are liars; continuing in sin meaning no repentance.. does not mean we can make ourselves sinless...this is not the correct understanding. you cannot take one verse out of context and match it to your understanding
we renew our minds by the word...the Bible...and the renewal occurs when we agree with what God says and change our sinful thoughts to the truth
you might notice how John, in verse 4, speaks of anyone breaking the law as sin..but then he goes on to say 5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
we are no longer under the law so John is referring to those without Christ and then he goes on to say that we know why Christ came...to take away our sins...so Jesus takes away our sins...we cannot remove them ourselves
John is writing to Christians and comparing those without salvation to those who are saved. nowhere is it stated we can purge ourselves of all sin and be perfect
there is actually something called 'the doctrine of sin'. in there you will find the expression 'sin is lawlessness' we are not without the law in that Christ fulfilled it on our behalf and we are no longer condemned by it, He said 'IT IS FINISHED' and for those who will by faith accept that, it is true. amen
And it is not my contention that we can "make ourselves perfect".
See above.
Yes, it is the Lord who does that....even in the practical sense.
And apparently you have endeavored to set forth a straw man that I am claiming that we can "make ourselves" perfect.
That is not my contention.
My contention is to say that Christ can make us perfect....even in the practical sense, concerning our walk with Christ.
See above.
Yes, it is the Lord who does that....even in the practical sense.
And apparently you have endeavored to set forth a straw man that I am claiming that we can "make ourselves" perfect.
That is not my contention.
My contention is to say that Christ can make us perfect....even in the practical sense, concerning our walk with Christ.
S
here is the original op again. I am not sin conscious and I am not discussing other people's fascination with it anymore
if anyone wants to discuss the actual op, great
everyone else will be ignored
thank you
SophieT, post: 4776904, member: 303760"]So the topic of 'sinless perfectionism' was posted a few days back and that thread led to a spinoff of being so sin conscious, there is nothing good to say other than condemnation and judgment. One extreme to another and I don't find either helpful or actually indicative of our walk with Christ.
Are we all just sinners 'saved by grace' or 'Saints' as Paul describes all the people he wrote letters to (save the Galatians who had turned from God's grace and were now professing works) as saints and not sinners. Even to the Galatians, he wrote: 3 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, 4 who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5 to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
What is sin-consciousness? A simple explanation is that would entail having a 'sin mindset'. That is, you fret and worry over having sinned and possibly become very judgmental of others you may perceive of not having the same condemnation you live under, because make no mistake, a person living with the idea that God is waiting to let you have it if you do sin, will often be quick to point out sin in others or even perceived sin and how they have disappointed God and so on.
So, the question becomes is that how we are to live? Under condemnation and fear of judgement? Worrying we have upset God and waiting for the next shoe to fall? Remember Adam and Eve? They hid from God when they sinned ... mind you, you cannot hide from God but sin does separate us from God but are we actually separated from God, when, as a believer, we do sin or worse, are somehow caught up in a sin we just do not seem to conquer or stop.
I'm going to leave it here for now cause there is quite a bit to chew on already if anyone cares to do so.
Let's try to be mature and not use scripture as a weapon against people we happen to disagree with. The devil aims enough darts and we should not be doing so to each other. That, is not the point of being able to have access to a Bible.
if anyone wants to discuss the actual op, great
everyone else will be ignored
thank you
SophieT, post: 4776904, member: 303760"]So the topic of 'sinless perfectionism' was posted a few days back and that thread led to a spinoff of being so sin conscious, there is nothing good to say other than condemnation and judgment. One extreme to another and I don't find either helpful or actually indicative of our walk with Christ.
Are we all just sinners 'saved by grace' or 'Saints' as Paul describes all the people he wrote letters to (save the Galatians who had turned from God's grace and were now professing works) as saints and not sinners. Even to the Galatians, he wrote: 3 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, 4 who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5 to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
What is sin-consciousness? A simple explanation is that would entail having a 'sin mindset'. That is, you fret and worry over having sinned and possibly become very judgmental of others you may perceive of not having the same condemnation you live under, because make no mistake, a person living with the idea that God is waiting to let you have it if you do sin, will often be quick to point out sin in others or even perceived sin and how they have disappointed God and so on.
So, the question becomes is that how we are to live? Under condemnation and fear of judgement? Worrying we have upset God and waiting for the next shoe to fall? Remember Adam and Eve? They hid from God when they sinned ... mind you, you cannot hide from God but sin does separate us from God but are we actually separated from God, when, as a believer, we do sin or worse, are somehow caught up in a sin we just do not seem to conquer or stop.
I'm going to leave it here for now cause there is quite a bit to chew on already if anyone cares to do so.
Let's try to be mature and not use scripture as a weapon against people we happen to disagree with. The devil aims enough darts and we should not be doing so to each other. That, is not the point of being able to have access to a Bible.