Resurrection

[Noose]

Can you explain why the bible says those who died in christ are fallen asleep. If your view is correct, instead of scriputre saying fallen asleep, it should say they are in heaven already.

This is the point that divides the new covenant (start of church era) and the old one:

Rev 14:
13Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”

From that moment on, the dead in the Lord only transitioned into resurrection in a twinkling of an eye like Jesus did, the dead in Christ before this moment did not resurrect immediately and thus are said to be asleep. The reason Paul said "..we shall not all sleep..", he eagerly awaited for that moment. But it is also my understanding that as much as the the Lord was there with resurrected OT saints, they were all awaiting for Peter to die because in Peter the whole church found ground as was promised by the Lord.

 

[Noose]

Noose all those fallen asleep in the Lord including Paul will wake and rise with the rest of any alive and remaining at the end of the age when Jesus returns. All those 1st century listeners are fallen asleep too are they not. And all the saints from every age right up to the end.

This is what many people who read the Bible understand it to be.

Any communication with or revleation about heaven and the afterlife is a vision, its not actually happening in our time. This is why God doesnt want us communicating with the people that have passed on, because they are resting. We are to pray and commune with Him alone, otherwise we would be praying like the catholics do to dead saints and talking to them. Saying hows resurrected life for you?

But the people who read the bible miss critical points like this:

Heb 10: 25not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching. ...
36You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. 37For,in just a little while, he who is coming will come and will not delay.”

21 centuries by any standard is a delay.

Paul made it clear that his death was for the benefit of his listeners:
2 Cor 4:
12So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.

13It is written: “I believed; therefore I have spoken.” b Since we have that same spirit of c faith, we also believe and therefore speak, 14because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you to himself. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God.

Q. Can you explain how Paul's death benefits us in the 21st century? Not his writings, his death.

 

[Noose]

Only God will know when the church is completed and the exact time when Lord will appear to call us up with that voice that sounds like a trumpet. However, we can know when it is getting very close because we can see the stage being set for the events which must take place after the church is removed, such as the stated of Israel, the increase in technology, the state of the world and the fact that the technology for the mark is here.



Yes, we just don't know when that harvest will take place, but we are very close.

Long story short, end of age is 2300AD. "...It shall be 2300 evenings and mornings then everything shall be restored..." Dan 8:14

 

[Jackson123]

Paul's letter is applicable to this generation and many generations to come until the end of age. Depends with what you are getting from those letters; there's truth in them and that's what we need to be understanding. The idea that resurrection and coming of the Lord is a one day event in the distant unknown future is completely false. Anyone with such thoughts will never ever answer Paul's question:

1 Cor 15:29 Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?

On the part that Paul letter applicable to all generation, I am agree.

On the part where Paul say we that still alive, we include the speaker, it consistence or inline with what Jesus say, no body know the day and the hour.

 

[Noose]

On the part that Paul letter applicable to all generation, I am agree.

On the part where Paul say we that still alive, we include the speaker, it consistence or inline with what Jesus say, no body know the day and the hour.

What about the part that Paul says, "..because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you to himself." 2 Cor 4:14

Are'nt you aware that these event describes the same resurrection event that Paul has been talking about elsewhere?

 

[Jackson123]

What about the part that Paul says, "..because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you to himself." 2 Cor 4:14

Are'nt you aware that these event describes the same resurrection event that Paul has been talking about elsewhere?

What about this verse?

I do not know your point.

This verse say that God the father that raised Jesus, also will raise us.

 

[Noose]

What about this verse?

I do not know your point.

This verse say that God the father that raised Jesus, also will raise us.

My point is the use of 'we' in that verse. If your claim that Paul uses the word 'we' to point at end of age believers only, how is this verse applicable to the end of age and not Paul and his 1st century listeners?

IOW, is Paul talking about end of age here?

2 Cor 4:
12So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.

13It is written: “I believed; therefore I have spoken.” b Since we have that same spirit of c faith, we also believe and therefore speak, 14because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you to himself. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God.

Q. How is Paul's death beneficial to end of age believers and not his 1st century listeners?

 

[Jackson123]

My point is the use of 'we' in that verse. If your claim that Paul uses the word 'we' to point at end of age believers only, how is this verse applicable to the end of age and not Paul and his 1st century listeners?

IOW, is Paul talking about end of age here?

2 Cor 4:
12So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.

13It is written: “I believed; therefore I have spoken.” b Since we have that same spirit of c faith, we also believe and therefore speak, 14because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you to himself. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God.

Q. How is Paul's death beneficial to end of age believers and not his 1st century listeners?

In this verse we include Paul.

In previous verse we include Paul as well, but he die before second coming.
It prove that Jesus correct, no body know the day and the hour.

 

[Noose]

In this verse we include Paul.

In previous verse we include Paul as well, but he die before second coming.
It prove that Jesus correct, no body know the day and the hour.

Paul seems to say in that verse that his death will benefit people, who are these people? are they his 1st century listeners or end of age believers? and how does Paul's death benefit people?

Peter also insinuated the same here:

2 Peter 1:12So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you now have. 13I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body,14because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 15And I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things.

Who does Peter's death benefit? is it the end of age believers or his 1st century listeners?

 

[Jackson123]

Paul seems to say in that verse that his death will benefit people, who are these people? are they his 1st century listeners or end of age believers? and how does Paul's death benefit people?

Peter also insinuated the same here:

2 Peter 1:12So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you now have. 13I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body,14because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 15And I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things.

Who does Peter's death benefit? is it the end of age believers or his 1st century listeners?

When Peter alive, he preach the gospel, it is for the benefit of the listener in that generation, and the listener repent, than preach the gospel for their generation, and it is continue till this generation now.

Peter also wrote a letter, and this letter is for all generation that read it.

I do not know if his death brought benefit, but his life is. If Peter still alive now, it will bring more benefit.
Can you imagine if 2000 years old Peter preach on tv every day? I believe millions of people will come to the Lord.

 

[Noose]

When Peter alive, he preach the gospel, it is for the benefit of the listener in that generation, and the listener repent, than preach the gospel for their generation, and it is continue till this generation now.

Peter also wrote a letter, and this letter is for all generation that read it.

I do not know if his death brought benefit, but his life is. If Peter still alive now, it will bring more benefit.
Can you imagine if 2000 years old Peter preach on tv every day? I believe millions of people will come to the Lord.

Then why was it necessary for them to talk about their deaths while preaching the gospel?

 

[Lanolin]

Cos those that die in the Lord will be raised when Jesus returns. They are resting now. Noose you have interesting beliefs but they seem to contradict whats in scripture.

Sorry. Believers dont indwell with other believers. Only the holy spirit indwells with believers. Unbelievers dont indwell in unbelievers. You seem to have beliefs that are more inline with reincarnation and hinduism then the faith once delivered to the saints.

 

[Noose]

Cos those that die in the Lord will be raised when Jesus returns. They are resting now. Noose you have interesting beliefs but they seem to contradict whats in scripture.

Sorry. Believers dont indwell with other believers. Only the holy spirit indwells with believers. Unbelievers dont indwell in unbelievers. You seem to have beliefs that are more inline with reincarnation and hinduism then the faith once delivered to the saints.

Then you have to understand this:

Isa 26:
19But your dead will live, Lord;
their bodies will rise—
let those who dwell in the dust
wake up and shout for joy—
your dew is like the dew of the morning;
the earth will give birth to her dead.
20Go, my people, enter your rooms
and shut the doors behind you;
hide yourselves for a little while
until his wrath has passed by.
21See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling
to punish the people of the earth for their sins.
The earth will disclose the blood shed on it;
the earth will conceal its slain no longer.


Q. Which rooms are these? Are these rooms on earth or heaven?

 

[SIMON55]

Long story short, end of age is 2300AD. "...It shall be 2300 evenings and mornings then everything shall be restored..." Dan 8:14

Ok...so your reference to Dan.8:14 this is a very excellent point.....😀 which in my opinion just completely destroys the Pretorism....and it is reproving that for prophecy a day unto the Lord is a year unto man....and also for this or that we have...
1. Numbers the 40 days-40 yrs wandering the dessert.
2.Ezekiel 4:6 I have appointed ye each day for a year.
3. Christs word....You tell that fox I do cures and cast out demons today tommorrow and on the third day I will be perfected ( so we know his ministry was 3 yr. )
4. So we can also add Dan 8:14 to the list and.....
The first 3 are God speaking directly and Dan. Is an angel....

And.....I suspect we can find more .. ..
But.....also...this reproves itself as a hardened and fast rule
1 DAY IS A YEAR......
AND.....
5.... Daniels 7.:...42 mo. Is proven by global history as 1260 yrs.....
SO.....we can with full reproved word faith work with this and it makes full and complete logical sense!

SO.....dont stop at Dan 8:14 keep going....because....
DANIEL AS 8:14 SHOWS PROPHECIES ALL OF GLOBAL HISTORY TO THE POINT JOHN PICKS UP THE HAND OFF IN REV.
SO......in Dan. 8 continuing on we have the empire of Alexander the Great and the four Greeks following him then we have....The Iron Roman empire that follows
( THE TRANSGRESSORS ) 70 AD
But look.........!!!!!!
Dan. 23 on is the 7:25 BLASPHEMER!!!!!! Read it PAY NOTICE TO " But not by his own power " .....THE MIXING OF THE IRON AND CLAY....
ROMAN PAGAN CHRISTIANITY!
Reproved by History!
Dan. 8:23 ON.......IS the....
ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH
1260 YRS A CHURCH STATE LITTLE HORN KINGDOM EMPIRE.........
Until the little horn empire HEAD REMOVAL....POPE ARRESTED.....BY NAPOLEON
536-1786.....
Justinian decree to Arrest...unto death EXILED!!!
THE MARK OF THE BEAST IS NOT TECHNOLOGY !!!!!
READ DANIEL 7......
THE BLASPHEMER POPE IS THE MARK.....THE NAME AND NUMBER OF A MAN!!!!!!

 

[Lanolin]

Then you have to understand this:

Isa 26:
19But your dead will live, Lord;
their bodies will rise—
let those who dwell in the dust
wake up and shout for joy—
your dew is like the dew of the morning;
the earth will give birth to her dead.
20Go, my people, enter your rooms
and shut the doors behind you;
hide yourselves for a little while
until his wrath has passed by.
21See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling
to punish the people of the earth for their sins.
The earth will disclose the blood shed on it;
the earth will conceal its slain no longer.


Q. Which rooms are these? Are these rooms on earth or heaven?

Earth.

 

[Lanolin]

Earth will give birth to her dead it says.
Those alive at the Lords coming are hiding themselves in their rooms. They are going to see a lot of people come out of their graves. They are just in their rooms while the lord is punishing the wicked and having wrath on them. Thats what Isaiah says to me your interpretstion may differ.

 

[Lanolin]

The dead in christ will rise, those who died without christ will be punished. Simple. Those alive and remaining in the lord will be safe while this is going on and joining the risen dead on earth they are not under Christs wrath, only those without.

Then heaven is going to come to earth because the wicked wont be heare anymore they will have completely perished in the lake of fire.

 

[Lanolin]

Does anyone know why its called pretereism. Is there someone called preter.

Just wondering. People post about it but they dont have much evidence, people cant even name the man of sin, false prophet and beas if all that happened supoosedly 70 ad. They cant name the day it happened, otherwise we would be celebrating that day all the time. Plus there would be outside sources and historical records of Jesus coming. If he already gathered the elects for. The four corners and every eye could see him coming in the clouds, we wouldnt even be here the end would already have come and we would be in eternity right now.

I dont buy an invisible resurrection.

 

[Noose]

Earth will give birth to her dead it says.
Those alive at the Lords coming are hiding themselves in their rooms. They are going to see a lot of people come out of their graves. They are just in their rooms while the lord is punishing the wicked and having wrath on them. Thats what Isaiah says to me your interpretstion may differ.

1. Of course my interpretation is different; there's no mention of 'those that are alive at Christ's coming' so you clearly made that up so that your narrative may sound true when it is not. That verse only speaks of the dead in Christ, how they arise and how God avenges their death in the His wrath while they are told to hide here on earth.

2. We now both agree there's no such thing as rapture. If your interpretation of the passage is that God's people at His coming will hide in rooms here on earth, then surely no one will be flying off it seems.

 

[Lanolin]

1. Of course my interpretation is different; there's no mention of 'those that are alive at Christ's coming' so you clearly made that up so that your narrative may sound true when it is not. That verse only speaks of the dead in Christ, how they arise and how God avenges their death in the His wrath while they are told to hide here on earth.

2. We now both agree there's no such thing as rapture. If your interpretation of the passage is that God's people at His coming will hide in rooms here on earth, then surely no one will be flying off it seems.

I didnt make it up see . Most Everyone knows this scriputre I cant believe you are ignorant of it. Check it out.
1 thessalonians 4:13-18

Sorry noose I dont make up stories, please dont accuse me of that. I just read the Bible whats there.