Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

arthurfleminger · May 15, 2022

Inquisitor, both you and I believe that the Bible is truth and is God's Word. In a number of your post, consecutively one after another, you post references from the Bible about those who believe in Jesus will be saved. There is no question that your references that you cited are accurate.

You can quote all you want, you've quoted three times above that we are saved through belief in Jesus. But you never address the crux of the matter. What do you mean by belief? Are you speaking of an intellectual acceptance belief that Jesus is God and Savior and therefore Scripture says you are saved? Or do you believe that belief in Jesus is more than that, believing in Jesus as God and Savior, but also believing all that He taught us and taught us to do?

I do respect your viewpoint, but what is your understanding of having faith/belief in Jesus? Do you have a truncated or full belief in Jesus and His teachings in the New Testament? Thanks.

Magenta · May 15, 2022

crossnote said:

How can it be called a lie if God agreed?

Pilgrimshope · May 15, 2022

arthurfleminger said:

amen we have to believe the gospel of the kingdom Jesus preached and follow that belief as we are able to learn and accept it his teachings and ways lead us to the right works ordained of God we are meant to walk in that’s the grace of God

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we’re holding To a grace that doesn’t teach us to repent of doing evil and start doing good it’s not of God it’s this

“For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Jude‬ ‭1:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We have to go here to find the grace of God that brings salvstion and teaches us to repent of evil and live upright godly lives in this world while we wait for Jesus return and become zealous for doing good and become repulsed and sorrowful by doing evil

“Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:28-30‬ ‭

that’s thy grace of God it’s found in the preaching and teaching of Jesus Christ our Lord

“This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭3:8‬ ‭

good works have become irrelevant to some but not to God.

crossnote · May 15, 2022

Magenta said:

It still is a half lie which satan continues to push through the New Age movement and Easter religions unless you actually believe we are like God. We may know 'good and evil' but we can't handle it properly (hence a half truth).

arthurfleminger · May 15, 2022

Pilgrimshope said:

amen we have to believe the gospel of the kingdom Jesus preached and follow that belief as we are able to learn and accept it his teachings and ways lead us to the right works ordained of God we are meant to walk in that’s the grace of God

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we’re holding To a grace that doesn’t teach us to repent of doing evil and start doing good it’s not of God it’s this

“For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Jude‬ ‭1:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We have to go here to find the grace of God that brings salvstion and teaches us to repent of evil and live upright godly lives in this world while we wait for Jesus return and become zealous for doing good and become repulsed and sorrowful by doing evil

“Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:28-30‬ ‭

that’s thy grace of God it’s found in the preaching and teaching of Jesus Christ our Lord

“This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭3:8‬ ‭

good works have become irrelevant to some but not to God.

Excellent post, AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pilgrimshope · May 15, 2022

crossnote said:

yeah it’s a twisted truth and deception

this is mans true state before hand when they were told don’t eat the fruit of good and evil or you’ll die

“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

man was right with God unashamed already made after his likeness and image mans true purpose is to reflect the goodness of God upon earth. If we are filled with good and evil in us and have no discernment between the two we lose our way like a man with no compass in the dark

we were already like God morally the evil was never intended to be here

“I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:21, 23‬ ‭

that law inside of us isnt meant to be there we had no judgement or discernment to handle the conflicting knowledge of good and evil , because man is designed for good to fill us and evil to not be a part of us.

God has discernment between good and evil angels also have discernment and know good and evil we werent meant to we were supposed to just follow the good of our God and believe what he told us. So that we were reflecting his glory in the earth

but this happened

“They know not, neither will they understand; They walk on in darkness: All the foundations of the earth are out of course.

I have said, Ye are gods; And all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, And fall like one of the princes.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭82:5-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

crossnote · May 15, 2022

Pilgrimshope said:

yeah it’s a twisted truth and deception

this is mans true state before hand when they were told don’t eat the fruit of good and evil or you’ll die

“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

man was right with God unashamed already made after his likeness and image mans true purpose is to reflect the goodness of God upon earth. If we are filled with good and evil in us and have no discernment between the two we lose our way like a man with no compass in the dark

we were already like God morally the evil was never intended to be here

“I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:21, 23‬ ‭

that law inside of us isnt meant to be there we had no judgement or discernment to handle the conflicting knowledge of good and evil , because man is designed for good to fill us and evil to not be a part of us.

God has discernment between good and evil angels also have discernment and know good and evil we werent meant to we were supposed to just follow the good of our God and believe what he told us. So that we were reflecting his glory in the earth

but this happened

“They know not, neither will they understand; They walk on in darkness: All the foundations of the earth are out of course.

I have said, Ye are gods; And all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, And fall like one of the princes.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭82:5-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Another biggie is when God told them 'The day you eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, you shall die' marks a major difference. Adam, ran the possibility of dying, whereas God can't die.

Pilgrimshope · May 15, 2022

crossnote said:

exactly everything changed for mankind the moment they transgressed and did exactly what God told them would cause thier demise.

man was a unique part of creation like the crown of crearion we were the only of all his creatures who were made in his image and likeness ( his children )

“for in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

No other creature is made to be in his image and likeness , so we are set apart in that we alone we’re given possession and dominion on earth, over all the other creatures man who was made in the creators image his children , was given the dominion.

when They are the fruit that dominion corrupted the earth and everything in it and lead us here

“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:5-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we ruined creation by following satans word and eating the fruit of the knowledge not meant to be in us and having no discernment between what’s good and evil we weren’t made to handle that knowledge so it led us there

mankind is the apple of Gods eye it seems his beloved offspring and the center of all his plans it seems ultimately Gods Will is to create a perfect world for his beloved children to live together with him forever

what a glorious God and how wonderful is he really ? It’s from one end of the universe , through every galaxy bouncing off of every star tonthe furthest reaches of the other side of The universe his wonders and goodness is beyond our ability to comprehend just like the universe

as the psalmist inquired “ what is man that he is mindful of us ? Why did he set us ive all his works and why oh why does the lord God Love us so ? What have we done or what are we that he would suffer such indignation and punishment for us after all we have done to choose death and sin and turn away from him as a species

man is so little but he is so big , we must be of great value to him though I do not understand why but for his incredoe goodness and love

Snacks · May 15, 2022

Pilgrimshope said:

amen we have to believe the gospel of the kingdom Jesus preached and follow that belief as we are able to learn and accept it his teachings and ways lead us to the right works ordained of God we are meant to walk in that’s the grace of God

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we’re holding To a grace that doesn’t teach us to repent of doing evil and start doing good it’s not of God it’s this

“For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Jude‬ ‭1:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We have to go here to find the grace of God that brings salvstion and teaches us to repent of evil and live upright godly lives in this world while we wait for Jesus return and become zealous for doing good and become repulsed and sorrowful by doing evil

“Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:28-30‬ ‭

that’s thy grace of God it’s found in the preaching and teaching of Jesus Christ our Lord

“This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭3:8‬ ‭

good works have become irrelevant to some but not to God.

Poor soul; your salvation hangs in the failed balance of your good works.

Magenta · May 15, 2022

crossnote said:

The lie Satan told was you shall not surely die. It is being told to this day.

"your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

That's what happened and even God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil."

crossnote · May 15, 2022

Magenta said:

The lie Satan told was you shall not surely die. It is being told to this day.

"your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

That's what happened and even God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil."

that too

Magenta · May 15, 2022

crossnote said:

Not "too." How can you say the other is a lie when God agreed with it???

crossnote · May 16, 2022

Back on topic, (speaking of works/grace/faith)...

(Rom 11:6) And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Do we go with grace or do we mix in our works?

Inquisitor · May 16, 2022

crossnote said:

Me thinks, they are obsessed with their works and repentance from sin.

I do not think you can make any headway with grace.

Try this bellringer instead.

Romans 10:13
For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Inquisitor · May 16, 2022

arthurfleminger said:

I believe that the gospel that Paul stated in 1 Corinthians 15, is the first and most important doctrine.

All other doctrine is secondary to that foundation which is the gospel of grace.

1 Corinthians 15:3-4,11
For I handed down to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures...Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

That was the full gospel of Jesus Christ.

An important secondary doctrine would be loving the brethren with an unconditional love, as He loved us.

Another doctrine would center on a personal holiness.

Nehemiah6 · May 16, 2022

Goliath said:

Where does the Bible teach that it is merited?

Goliath · May 16, 2022

Nehemiah6 said:

Inquisitor said:

Even better...undeserved absolutely!

Goliath · May 16, 2022

Inquisitor said:

Of course I am joking.

Some folk who follow a theology of works have problems with what Paul wrote. So when you post, 'Saved by grace through faith', they react with verses from Matthew or James. Many church movements have faith and works locked together, it is their church doctrine.

The surprising thing is that the apostle John also declares the same doctrine as Paul does.

Here are some verses from John which echo Paul's declaration of the gospel.

John 3:15
So that everyone who believes will have eternal life in Him.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:18
The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

John 3:36
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”

There are many more verses from John but space is limited.

Wells that's good to know.

Goliath · May 16, 2022

Inquisitor said:

Absolutely agree.
We have the power to overcome sin....through our love of God. The greater our Love for God, the greater our power over sin. But all that power wouldn't exist without the power in the blood of Jesus Christ. A power that is able to wash away sin, so that the sinner does not become lost, because the Blood Of Christ keeps them in the light of God.

Goliath · May 16, 2022

Snacks said:

BTW brother, I didn't mean to poke you in the eye with that, (you don't believe in the Gospel)..just making a truthful observation. People who found their teachings on Paul's epistles, in ignorance, teach against what Jesus taught. I say in ignorance because, if they knew they were teaching against Jesus they would stop doing it. But that is something you need to see for yourself, for you will not believe me just because I say it.
For example...(John 8:34) Jesus taught that everyone who sins, is a slave to sin.
Do you believe everyone who sins...is a slave of sin?

Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

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