Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation
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Jesus gave me eternal life WHEN I believed in Him, per His words in John 10:28. So how can I perish given what He said?
You need to answer MY questions.
I don't need to satisfy your requirements. I have God's Word, which you don't believe. Jesus said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28 answers your request. So I don't have to worry about perishing. Jesus guarantees that I won't.
However, that's not to say that I can live however I want and "get away with it". No sireee!
God absolutely does punish His disobedient children. He knows how to make them very miserable.
I don't want to be miserable. Plus, I want to be rewarded in eternity. So I have two motivations for living according to His Word.
What you don't seem to like is that Jesus gives eternal life to believers, and there are NO CONDITIONS for recipients of eternal life to meet in order to "not perish". This is your sticking point. You need to believe God's Word.
Instead, you believe your deceived heart and emotions.
You need to answer MY questions.
I don't need to satisfy your requirements. I have God's Word, which you don't believe. Jesus said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28 answers your request. So I don't have to worry about perishing. Jesus guarantees that I won't.
However, that's not to say that I can live however I want and "get away with it". No sireee!
God absolutely does punish His disobedient children. He knows how to make them very miserable.
I don't want to be miserable. Plus, I want to be rewarded in eternity. So I have two motivations for living according to His Word.
What you don't seem to like is that Jesus gives eternal life to believers, and there are NO CONDITIONS for recipients of eternal life to meet in order to "not perish". This is your sticking point. You need to believe God's Word.
Instead, you believe your deceived heart and emotions.
Your seeming inability to grasp these simple concepts is quite amazing.
No one believes anything "for just one second". Why do you keep bringing up these irrelevant ideas?
Have you ever believed something just for 1 second?
But, given your question, you should answer this. Is there any verse that mentions a time frame for a person to believe before they are saved? If there is, please share, and your question is quite valid.
However, if you cannot find one, your question is quite invalid and actually stupid.
If the Bible doesn't mention any kind of time frame for believing BEFORE a person is saved, your question is meaningless.
So you are worrying about a non-event.
All these verses SAY plainly that believers POSSESS eternal life: John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40, 47, and 1 John 5:13. That means a person POSSESSES eternal life when they become a believer. So eternal life is received at that very moment.
Explain how you disagree with this.
No one believes anything "for just one second". Why do you keep bringing up these irrelevant ideas?
Have you ever believed something just for 1 second?
But, given your question, you should answer this. Is there any verse that mentions a time frame for a person to believe before they are saved? If there is, please share, and your question is quite valid.
However, if you cannot find one, your question is quite invalid and actually stupid.
If the Bible doesn't mention any kind of time frame for believing BEFORE a person is saved, your question is meaningless.
So you are worrying about a non-event.
All these verses SAY plainly that believers POSSESS eternal life: John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40, 47, and 1 John 5:13. That means a person POSSESSES eternal life when they become a believer. So eternal life is received at that very moment.
Explain how you disagree with this.
Yep, faith is believe, believe mean trust His teaching
You can not say I believe God but I font believe His teaching
Than what do you mean by believe, believe what
Like Noah believe God than he work ten thousand of hour to build an arch
Can Niah say I believe God but don't believe His information about the coming fliad
If so it mean Noah a liar, he say believe but deep in his heart he is not, he accused God a liar
What kind of faith is that
That is why James say faith without work is death
I don't think James, Paul and Jesus contradict each other
No need reconciliation because no contradiction
Jesus, Paul, James teach salvation by faith
Than Jesus teach more in Matt 25 about the manifestation or the fruit of faith and that is agaphe love as describe in Matt 25:36-41
That is fruit of faith look like
You can not say I believe God but I font believe His teaching
Than what do you mean by believe, believe what
Like Noah believe God than he work ten thousand of hour to build an arch
Can Niah say I believe God but don't believe His information about the coming fliad
If so it mean Noah a liar, he say believe but deep in his heart he is not, he accused God a liar
What kind of faith is that
That is why James say faith without work is death
I don't think James, Paul and Jesus contradict each other
No need reconciliation because no contradiction
Jesus, Paul, James teach salvation by faith
Than Jesus teach more in Matt 25 about the manifestation or the fruit of faith and that is agaphe love as describe in Matt 25:36-41
That is fruit of faith look like
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Wrong
How you can be believer if you are not interested to abide in Him
Read again john 15:6
Not abide, no fruit. Cut off and trown into lake fire
And you and your church twisted the meaning of lake fire
You have been tought lake fire mean heaven with less diamond.
Show me a verse that eternal lake fire mean heaven
How you can be believer if you are not interested to abide in Him
Read again john 15:6
Not abide, no fruit. Cut off and trown into lake fire
And you and your church twisted the meaning of lake fire
You have been tought lake fire mean heaven with less diamond.
Show me a verse that eternal lake fire mean heaven
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FreeGrace2 said:
Read it again. He gave the caveat; IF IF IF you "abide in Me, and I in you". That's the key. This is about fellowship.
Only believers IN fellowship can bear fruit. Not the knuckleheads who are grieving (Eph 4:30) or quenching (1 Thess 5:19) the Spirit.
OK, it is clear that you have no understanding of what "fellowship" is or means. EVERY believer MUST understand what it is and means.
Jesus NEVER said anything about "lake fire". I used a farming metaphor about a branch being burned because it was not useful.
If you believe that Jesus did mean the lake of fire, then you HAVE TO believe that Jesus contradicted Himself, because He said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. That means from the time they received eternal life they won't perish.
But you don't believe it, regardless of the fact that Jesus gave no conditions for recipients to meet for that promise.
No, I have NEVER been taught that. Nor do I believe that. So why do you ASSUME that I do believe that. I think that idea is very stupid.
That's what I think. So you don't understand anything I say. So why do I keep responding to you, given your total failure to understand me?
Please stop these asinine questions.
Show me a verse in John 15 where Jesus even mentioned the lake of fire. I dare you.
Read it again. He gave the caveat; IF IF IF you "abide in Me, and I in you". That's the key. This is about fellowship.
Only believers IN fellowship can bear fruit. Not the knuckleheads who are grieving (Eph 4:30) or quenching (1 Thess 5:19) the Spirit.
OK, it is clear that you have no understanding of what "fellowship" is or means. EVERY believer MUST understand what it is and means.
Jesus NEVER said anything about "lake fire". I used a farming metaphor about a branch being burned because it was not useful.
If you believe that Jesus did mean the lake of fire, then you HAVE TO believe that Jesus contradicted Himself, because He said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. That means from the time they received eternal life they won't perish.
But you don't believe it, regardless of the fact that Jesus gave no conditions for recipients to meet for that promise.
No, I have NEVER been taught that. Nor do I believe that. So why do you ASSUME that I do believe that. I think that idea is very stupid.
That's what I think. So you don't understand anything I say. So why do I keep responding to you, given your total failure to understand me?
Please stop these asinine questions.
Show me a verse in John 15 where Jesus even mentioned the lake of fire. I dare you.
FreeGrace2 said:
Your seeming inability to grasp these simple concepts is quite amazing.
No one believes anything "for just one second". Why do you keep bringing up these irrelevant ideas?
Have you ever believed something just for 1 second?
Allow me to translate what this means:
"I don't want to face the facts and reality that my questions are ridiculous".
Oh, for the umpteenth time, it means no one goes to heaven because they have "endured".
Why don't you use YOUR Bible and find me any verse that teaches that faith must endure to the end of your life.
I'll wait.
Your seeming inability to grasp these simple concepts is quite amazing.
No one believes anything "for just one second". Why do you keep bringing up these irrelevant ideas?
Have you ever believed something just for 1 second?
Allow me to translate what this means:
"I don't want to face the facts and reality that my questions are ridiculous".
Oh, for the umpteenth time, it means no one goes to heaven because they have "endured".
Why don't you use YOUR Bible and find me any verse that teaches that faith must endure to the end of your life.
I'll wait.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Case them into fire and burn
For you mean heaven with less diamond
Matt 25
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Everlasting fire prepare for the devil
For you there is heaven with less diamond and the devil and they angel will be there too
Speak less
Case them into fire and burn
For you mean heaven with less diamond
Matt 25
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Everlasting fire prepare for the devil
For you there is heaven with less diamond and the devil and they angel will be there too
Speak less
I wish you would pay attention or focus more carefully. I never said any of that.
In Jesus' farming metaphor (do you know what that word means) casting a fruitless branch into a fire means that God cannot use a believer who isn't "abiding in Christ", or who is OUT of fellowship.
Since you are not familiar with the concept of being either in or out of fellowship, you cannot understand what Jesus was telling His disciples.
Yes, this is talking about the lake of fire.
You are completely clueless about what I post. Satan won't be in heaven. Nor his fallen angels. So please STOP ascribing to me those stupid claims about what I believe.
When are you going to explain what John 5:24 and 10:28 teach, since you reject that they teach eternal security?
In Jesus' farming metaphor (do you know what that word means) casting a fruitless branch into a fire means that God cannot use a believer who isn't "abiding in Christ", or who is OUT of fellowship.
Since you are not familiar with the concept of being either in or out of fellowship, you cannot understand what Jesus was telling His disciples.
Yes, this is talking about the lake of fire.
You are completely clueless about what I post. Satan won't be in heaven. Nor his fallen angels. So please STOP ascribing to me those stupid claims about what I believe.
When are you going to explain what John 5:24 and 10:28 teach, since you reject that they teach eternal security?
The verse is real clear for those who actually read it. All unbelievers, and Satan and his angels will spend eternity in the lake of fire.
No heaven for unbelievers, Satan or his angels. Got it yet?
btw, after the GWT judgment for all unbelievers, there will be no heaven as we think of it today. Because after the GWT judgment, this present earth will be destroyed and there will be a new heaven and earth. And all believers will be on the new earth. And God will come down and be with His people on earth.
It's all described in Rev 21.
No heaven for unbelievers, Satan or his angels. Got it yet?
btw, after the GWT judgment for all unbelievers, there will be no heaven as we think of it today. Because after the GWT judgment, this present earth will be destroyed and there will be a new heaven and earth. And all believers will be on the new earth. And God will come down and be with His people on earth.
It's all described in Rev 21.
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Good
People in Matt 25 go to hell because not helping the poor
So no helping the poor mean no faith am I correct?
Why you keep asking me to explain john 5:24?
You think john 5:24 contradict Matt 25?
24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
This verse say believe > heaven
Matt 25 mean the fruit of believe
No contradiction et all
When you believe in Jesus, Jesus will dwell in you than you bear fruit
Sinner can do agape love as show in Matt 25
Only Jesus did and believer bear it in the form of helping the needy
Not helping the needy mean no Jesus mean no fruit mean hell, not heaven with lake of fire
People in Matt 25 go to hell because not helping the poor
So no helping the poor mean no faith am I correct?
Why you keep asking me to explain john 5:24?
You think john 5:24 contradict Matt 25?
24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
This verse say believe > heaven
Matt 25 mean the fruit of believe
No contradiction et all
When you believe in Jesus, Jesus will dwell in you than you bear fruit
Sinner can do agape love as show in Matt 25
Only Jesus did and believer bear it in the form of helping the needy
Not helping the needy mean no Jesus mean no fruit mean hell, not heaven with lake of fire
It seem people believe they save without relationship to jesus
How you have faith but no feloship with jesus
No abide no fruit go to fire
Fruit of the Holy Spirit is love
Helping poor, agape love in Matt 25 is fruit
No fruit mean not helping the needy mean no love mean nofaith mean hell
Simple, Jesus not contradict Himself
How you have faith but no feloship with jesus
No abide no fruit go to fire
Fruit of the Holy Spirit is love
Helping poor, agape love in Matt 25 is fruit
No fruit mean not helping the needy mean no love mean nofaith mean hell
Simple, Jesus not contradict Himself
No. You still don't understand.
Haven't you ever read Rev 20:11-15? The ONLY REASON people will be asst into the lake of fire is because their names are not in the Book of Life. That means they NEVER received the gift of eternal life, which is received on the basis of believing in Christ, NOT on "helping the poor". That is nothing less than a heretical works based salvation.
You haven't been correct at any time I've been communicating with you.
Because you have said that eternal life is given at the judgment. And only then is one's eternal destiny determined.
No, I think the Bible contradicts nearly everything you post.
Is that all you got out of the verse? Go back and keep reading it. And answer the question of WHEN does a person, based on Jn 5:24, possess eternal life.
I don't know what you mean.
You are full of contradictions.
Do you bear fruit when you grieve (Eph 4:30) or quench (1 Thess 5:19) the Spirit? Of course you don't.
Irrelevant. All believers are sinners. Paul called himself the greatest sinner.
Haven't you ever read Rev 20:11-15? The ONLY REASON people will be asst into the lake of fire is because their names are not in the Book of Life. That means they NEVER received the gift of eternal life, which is received on the basis of believing in Christ, NOT on "helping the poor". That is nothing less than a heretical works based salvation.
You haven't been correct at any time I've been communicating with you.
Because you have said that eternal life is given at the judgment. And only then is one's eternal destiny determined.
No, I think the Bible contradicts nearly everything you post.
Is that all you got out of the verse? Go back and keep reading it. And answer the question of WHEN does a person, based on Jn 5:24, possess eternal life.
I don't know what you mean.
You are full of contradictions.
Do you bear fruit when you grieve (Eph 4:30) or quench (1 Thess 5:19) the Spirit? Of course you don't.
Irrelevant. All believers are sinners. Paul called himself the greatest sinner.
So no love as describe in Matt 25 mean no faith
No body able to do agape love as in Matt 25
Only Jesus, jesus dwell in us mean faith
No Jesus no fruit > hell, not heaven with less diamond
People try to twisted it so fit with they doctrine it is posible to have faith without abide to jesus
Than create unbiblical doctrine not base on the Bible but base of what is easy to go to heaven
Gas a sinner I like to hear that
But this sinner know it is useless to lie to myself
His will be done, my will nothing
I wish go to heaven without carry the cross
Just wish, but never happen
According to Jesus no agape love mean hell
Hmm Jesus contradict Himself
No body able to do agape love as in Matt 25
Only Jesus, jesus dwell in us mean faith
No Jesus no fruit > hell, not heaven with less diamond
People try to twisted it so fit with they doctrine it is posible to have faith without abide to jesus
Than create unbiblical doctrine not base on the Bible but base of what is easy to go to heaven
Gas a sinner I like to hear that
But this sinner know it is useless to lie to myself
His will be done, my will nothing
I wish go to heaven without carry the cross
Just wish, but never happen
According to Jesus no agape love mean hell
Hmm Jesus contradict Himself
Haven't you read Matt 25.
You think Matt 25 contradict rev 20?
The reason people go to hell is don't believe yes
And in Matt 25 Jesus say not helping poor go to hell
Friend let me oriel you one more time
Rev 20 > faith > heaven
Matt 25 faith in action > heaven, no faith in action > hell
Both is talking about faith but Matt 25 explain what is faith look like
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
You think Matt 25 contradict rev 20?
The reason people go to hell is don't believe yes
And in Matt 25 Jesus say not helping poor go to hell
Friend let me oriel you one more time
Rev 20 > faith > heaven
Matt 25 faith in action > heaven, no faith in action > hell
Both is talking about faith but Matt 25 explain what is faith look like
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Let me tell,you my exoerience
You may think I am a liar, it's ok but I tell true stoty
Some years ago I have a dream
In my deram look like one bring me to heaven
It was so pretty and I love to be there
And people love each other
I saw they build a large house and the park so Beaty and big, may ge more than thousand acre
I ask the lord whose house it that
To my surprise He say it will be yours
Jesus I am a big sinner and come from poor family and people treat me with pure love
Some that help build my house is famous men like king david
In my heart I say let be honest tell me who I am
So I ask the Lord, Lord can you give me a favor, tell them who I am tell them that I am a big sinner and come from the poor family
The Lord say, they know it
They know me and still treat me with pure love?
Than I am remember Matt 25
The sheep or future heaven resident is people that help the poor
It so pretty and I love to be there
I ask one more petition
Lord keep the big house for some one I am happy even sleep on the park, but don't send me back to the earth
Than I wake up, I wish it real not only dream
At least I experience being loved and people of God love the poor, sinner like me
Love the sinner but hate the sin
I think my dream is about Matt 25
Sheep love the poor
You may think I am a liar, it's ok but I tell true stoty
Some years ago I have a dream
In my deram look like one bring me to heaven
It was so pretty and I love to be there
And people love each other
I saw they build a large house and the park so Beaty and big, may ge more than thousand acre
I ask the lord whose house it that
To my surprise He say it will be yours
Jesus I am a big sinner and come from poor family and people treat me with pure love
Some that help build my house is famous men like king david
In my heart I say let be honest tell me who I am
So I ask the Lord, Lord can you give me a favor, tell them who I am tell them that I am a big sinner and come from the poor family
The Lord say, they know it
They know me and still treat me with pure love?
Than I am remember Matt 25
The sheep or future heaven resident is people that help the poor
It so pretty and I love to be there
I ask one more petition
Lord keep the big house for some one I am happy even sleep on the park, but don't send me back to the earth
Than I wake up, I wish it real not only dream
At least I experience being loved and people of God love the poor, sinner like me
Love the sinner but hate the sin
I think my dream is about Matt 25
Sheep love the poor
That's exactly right brother!!
Don't know who Robert Bellarmine is, but I teach the same thing about faith. I'm a KJV advocate, but I do use other translations, that translate into a modern verbiage, as long as they don't change the meaning of the Text. Instead of dead faith, I prefer the translation of Worthless Faith.
If faith without Works has no value, how can it save you?
How can Salvation be a reward, if it had no value?
God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
(Romans 2:6-7)
Reconciliation...thats what identifies the False doctrines, the lack there of. And any doctrine that teaches against what Jesus taught, is by definition.... a teaching from the Antichrist. For it is opposed to the foundational teachings of Jesus taught. As well meaning as they were, these men who started all these organizations we call church...were wrong.
Folks, I appeal to your logic.
If a sinner is someone who breaks the Law of God, doesn't it seem logical, that a righteous man is one who keeps the Laws of God?
It's a battle folks, a battle of Good against Evil.
The Holy Bible is a wonderful book, but that's all it is..a book, if you are not guided by the Holy Spirit.
It would have been nice, if Jesus had gifted us with a book, an instruction manual on what we must do to be saved. But he didn't, he gave us the Holy Spirit to be our guide.
Why didn't God leave us with a BooK?
Look at all the false doctrines which have come from the Bible....Look at all the translations in our own languages. If I only had a book, I would be just as lost as many of you are now.
Go to God, confess your sins, if you have received the Holy Spirit, follow him!!
How?
Paul refers to a Godly conscience, and everyone knows what a conscience is,....right?
The Holy Spirit, guides the sinner by using their conscience.
Your conscience, makes you feel guilty.....when you do Evil.
If we are born into sin, this conscience is obviously against our nature. And since we are not yet born of God, this conscience....is obviously from God.
Remember...Unconfessed sin is Unforgiven sin, and Sin separates you from Gods light. (Isaiah 59:2)
If you want to stay in the light, in tuned with the Holy Spirit, please confess your sin before God when you sin. Else you will fall right back into the darkness, a life without conscience.
Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorrowful, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For ye were made sorrowful in a godly manner, that ye might receive injury from us in nothing.
(2 Corinthians 7:9)
Don't know who Robert Bellarmine is, but I teach the same thing about faith. I'm a KJV advocate, but I do use other translations, that translate into a modern verbiage, as long as they don't change the meaning of the Text. Instead of dead faith, I prefer the translation of Worthless Faith.
If faith without Works has no value, how can it save you?
How can Salvation be a reward, if it had no value?
God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
(Romans 2:6-7)
Reconciliation...thats what identifies the False doctrines, the lack there of. And any doctrine that teaches against what Jesus taught, is by definition.... a teaching from the Antichrist. For it is opposed to the foundational teachings of Jesus taught. As well meaning as they were, these men who started all these organizations we call church...were wrong.
Folks, I appeal to your logic.
If a sinner is someone who breaks the Law of God, doesn't it seem logical, that a righteous man is one who keeps the Laws of God?
It's a battle folks, a battle of Good against Evil.
The Holy Bible is a wonderful book, but that's all it is..a book, if you are not guided by the Holy Spirit.
It would have been nice, if Jesus had gifted us with a book, an instruction manual on what we must do to be saved. But he didn't, he gave us the Holy Spirit to be our guide.
Why didn't God leave us with a BooK?
Look at all the false doctrines which have come from the Bible....Look at all the translations in our own languages. If I only had a book, I would be just as lost as many of you are now.
Go to God, confess your sins, if you have received the Holy Spirit, follow him!!
How?
Paul refers to a Godly conscience, and everyone knows what a conscience is,....right?
The Holy Spirit, guides the sinner by using their conscience.
Your conscience, makes you feel guilty.....when you do Evil.
If we are born into sin, this conscience is obviously against our nature. And since we are not yet born of God, this conscience....is obviously from God.
Remember...Unconfessed sin is Unforgiven sin, and Sin separates you from Gods light. (Isaiah 59:2)
If you want to stay in the light, in tuned with the Holy Spirit, please confess your sin before God when you sin. Else you will fall right back into the darkness, a life without conscience.
Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorrowful, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For ye were made sorrowful in a godly manner, that ye might receive injury from us in nothing.
(2 Corinthians 7:9)
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