question those who do not believe Jesus is God

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unclesilas

Active member
Feb 6, 2019
483
170
43
#21
Like wise what if it isn’t, then people are creating unnecessary confrontations.
Which shows the difference between internet debating websites and the average church. For this subject is a far bigger deal on the internet than it is in the average church
 
K

KnowMe

Guest
#22
Which shows the difference between internet debating websites and the average church. For this subject is a far bigger deal on the internet than it is in the average church
I agree, probably cause not many see the other person on the other side of the screen, personal frustrations
What ever can be vented out easily to others on the internet IMO.
 
Jan 28, 2019
48
19
8
#23
Interesting topic, I have personally been studying a lot into this recently..... my personal belief through my studies is that our Messiah is Son to the Most High but is not the Most High. Yahshua (Jesus) was always with Yahweh (God). I believe He is the “Angel of the Lord” references throughout all the OT. I also believe that he became flesh for us to have a realistic example to live up to and also to be our Passover Lamb saving us from the death we all deserve. Now with that being said, I strongly believe that He and Yahweh(God) are two different beings and not the same. Yahweh says He is a jealous God and the ONLY God, and that we are to NOT have any other Gods that we worship. Put very plainly in this verse:

Exodus 22:20 (NKJV) "He who sacrifices to [any] god, except to the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

Yahshua is our Messiah and is the way to our God, but is not our God in my opinion. And the fact that the “Trinity Theology” didn’t come about until the 3rd century AD is something to take note of. I have some good articles on this topic from my studies that I can share links to if any are interested.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#24
The way I see it is you can't separate the Holy Spirit from Jesus or from the Father. In them dwells the HS in its fullness and that is what give them their unity. That makes them constantly in touch with each other with the same purpose.

We are tapped into this HS only in part so faith can fill in the rest. That involves learning God's word and applying it to our lives. It builds steadfastness or patience if you will. That in turn builds godly character. :):cool:;)
Daniel 7
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the *Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
*Who IS this "Ancient of days?"
Revelation 4
2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,
10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created
Revelation 5
And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
From WHOSE Hand, did the Lamb take the book from?
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Redeemed "us" TO who?

12 Saying with a loud voice, WORTHY is the Lamb that was slain to RECEIVE power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, AND unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
I can't make you see the difference! I can only show that there IS a difference!

(believe me! I tried to write even more in my telling! But, was stopped in this endeavor , in the face of such awesome prescence :censored:, that it rendered me once again unable to continue. Had to "take a break!" After I stopped quivering, and wiped my eyes.)

Bottom line? The Lamb, Jesus Christ IS worthy, and thought it NOT robbery, in being EQUAL, in The "OFFICE of God!" But? He is not The Father!
God!....The Son! :)
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,267
432
83
#25
Scripture proclaims: The Father, Son & Holy Spirit are all God.

Just to name a few: 11 Verses 5 different writers say Jesus is God: Isa 7:14 & 9:6, Micah 5:2, Matthew 1:23, Rom 9:5, 1 Tim 3:16, Titus 2:13, 1 Jn 5:7, Rev 1:8, Jn 1:1, John 20:28.

God the Son/Jesus the Christ, pre-existed prior the his incarnation & is our Creator/God:

John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(NOTE: Before the flash point of creation. The Word/Son/Jesus was with God (The Father) and was/is also God)

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
(NOTE: Christ MADE/CREATED ALL THINGS!)

Col 1:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
(NOTE: Christ CREATED ALL THINGS!)

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
(NOTE: Christ HOLDS ALL THINGS TOGETHER!)

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
(NOTE: Christ MADE THE WORLDS!)

God the Son/Jesus the Christ, pre-existed prior the his incarnation & Jesus is God our Creator:

Jn:
3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(NOTE: God the Father gave his Son)

6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
(NOTE: God the Son is sent by the God the Father in Heaven, before the flash point of creation. God the Son speaks our universe into existence & thus begins the work of reconciliation/salvation)

6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
(NOTE: We see the Son of man (Christ in the flesh) ascend (Acts 1:9-12). Going back to where he pre-existed)

Jn 8:23 Jesus said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
(NOTE: The SON of God/Jesus say's, he's from above & not from this world)

8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
(NOTE: The Son of God proclaims he preexisted)

Jn 16:28 Jesus said, I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father
(NOTE: The SON of God/Jesus say's, He came from the Father (did he leave himself?) He will return to the Father. Although, The Son is ONE WITH, he's NOT the Father)

Jn 17:5 O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
(NOTE: Before the world began, the Son, enjoyed glory "WITH" the Father, "NOT AS" the Father)

KJV Dictionary Definition: BOSOM
Bosom, in composition, implies intimacy, affection and confidence; as a bosom-friend, an intimate or confidential friend; bosom-lover, bosom-interest, bosom-secret, etc

Gen 16:5 And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee.
(NOTE: Bosom here, is discribing the intimacy between Abram & Hagar that produced Ishmal)

2 Sam 12:8 And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.
(NOTE: Bosom here is also speaking to intimacy)

Before the world began! The Son lived in """GLORY"" in the """Bosom""" of the Father:

Jn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the """bosom of the Father""".
(NOTE: I submitt to you, neither the Father or Son, are having an intimate relationship one's self. PUN INTENDED)

Find here the spiritual oneness. Begins with & proceeds from the Father, who IS NOT the Son

Jn 10:30 I and my Father are one.
(NOTE: SPIRITUALLY ONE)

Jn 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
(NOTE: SPIRITUAL ONENESS)

Jn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
(NOTE: SPIRITUAL ONENESS)

Jn 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
(NOTE: SPIRITUAL ONENESS)

Jn 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
(NOTE: SPIRITUAL ONENESS, HERE, THOSE THAT HAVE BEEN INDEWLT WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT ARE INCLUDED)

Jn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
(NOTE: SPIRITUAL ONENESS, HERE AGAIN, THOSE THAT HAVE BEEN INDEWLT WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT ARE INCLUDED)

Additional scripture/food for thought:

Rom 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
(NOTE: Does one body = one person? NO! The millions/billions = ONE SPIRITUAL BODY)

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
(NOTE: Christ is the head of the church: He is the saviour of a NUMEROUS SPIRITUAL BODY ""OF ONE"")

1 Cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
(NOTE: The HEAD of Christ, is God the the Father)

Scripture porclaims 4 TIME: ""God the Father"" said to ""God the Son"" Sit at my right hand.

Ps 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Matt 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Luk 20:42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
(NOTE: The LORD/God the Father, ISN'T talking about/to HIMSELF!)

When Jesus prays to the Father:
1) IS HE PRAYING TO HIMSELF?

John 14:28 Jesus say's, the Father is greater then him:
2) DID JESUS LIE HERE?

John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
(NOTE: Jesus said: I came from the Father, I leave this world & return to the Father. Jn 3:16 God sent his Son,
3) DID HE SEND HIMSELF?
4) IS HE RETURNING TO HIMSELF?)

Heb 10:12 (B&C) after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
(This isn't the earthly Jesus. This is the risen/glorified Jesus & HE DOESN'T SIT DOWN NEXT TO HIMSELF?)

Rev 5:7 And he (VS 5 the Loin of the tribe of Juda, ve 6 the Lamb) came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
(Here again, this isn't the earthly Jesus. This is the risen/glorified Lamb/Jesus. DOESN'T TAKE THE BOOK OUT OF HIS OWN HAND!)

Find 3 post resurrection verses where God the Son SAT DOWN at the right hand of God the Father Mk 16:19, Heb 1:3, Heb 10:12

God the Father sends God the Son:
Jn 3:16, 5:23, 30, 36 & 37, 6:38 & 39, 6:57, 8:42, 10;36, 12:49

God the Father gives to God the Son:
Jn 3:35, 5:22 & 26, 6:37&39, 10:29, 13:3 16:28

If the Father & Son are the same person, what's the point in any of the following verses? Everyone of these verses were written POST RESURRECTION!

Gal 1:1 & 3, Eph 6:23, Php 2:11, 1 Th 1:1, 2 Ti 1:2, Tit 1:4, 1 Pe 1:2, 2 Pe 1:17, 2 Jn 1:3, Jud 1:1 Jude

And finally: Pay special attention vs 28!

1 Corinthians 15:
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

When all is comlpete/fulfilled (after the white throne). The Son will what? SUBJECT, ALL THINGS INCLUDING HIMSELF, unto the Father, that gave them to him. Christ will still FOREVER remain King of Kings & Lord of Lords. Why? Because the Father, rewarded his just works. And has GIVEN ALL THINGS WITHIN OUR REALM TO HIM. MOO! = My Opinion Only
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#26
Which shows the difference between internet debating websites and the average church. For this subject is a far bigger deal on the internet than it is in the average church
Does this mean that the issues, or discussions, or debates, or questions, are easier to put forth from the relative anonymity, and safety from persecution, the internet falsely provides?

Is it because like Zacharias, John the Baptist Dad, because of unbelief, the "Angel" has shut up our mouths, and we can only communicate by writing? Because the "time" to "go public" is not come yet?

In light of this, and even more "variables", does this mean the issues discussed, debated, brought to bare, and questions asked are not relavant, or important? :unsure:
 

unclesilas

Active member
Feb 6, 2019
483
170
43
#27
Does this mean that the issues, or discussions, or debates, or questions, are easier to put forth from the relative anonymity, and safety from persecution, the internet falsely provides?

Is it because like Zacharias, John the Baptist Dad, because of unbelief, the "Angel" has shut up our mouths, and we can only communicate by writing? Because the "time" to "go public" is not come yet?

In light of this, and even more "variables", does this mean the issues discussed, debated, brought to bare, and questions asked are not relavant, or important? :unsure:
Does this mean that the issues, or discussions, or debates, or questions, are easier to put forth from the relative anonymity, and safety from persecution, the internet falsely provides?

Is it because like Zacharias, John the Baptist Dad, because of unbelief, the "Angel" has shut up our mouths, and we can only communicate by writing? Because the "time" to "go public" is not come yet?

In light of this, and even more "variables", does this mean the issues discussed, debated, brought to bare, and questions asked are not relavant, or important? :unsure:
In my view, much discussed on the internet is not that important