problem related to praying in tongues

[Fundaamental]

Ok..

But you said that speaking in tongues might have something to do with two people who speak different languages sometimes being able to communicate. According to the Bible, when a person speaks in tongues he is speaking to God, not to other people. Tongues has nothing to do with humans communicating with each other.

Later.

It quite common to see dissociation of the spirit.

If the gift of tounges is not for communicating with each other why is one person needed to speak it and another needed to interpret.

Isn't the gift of tounges to shock unbelievers into repentance,

How do the unbelievers become shocked if there's no telepathic communication involved

 

[ResidentAlien]

"And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, 'Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.' " Acts 2:5-11

The men don't seem to be speaking directly to their hearers, but it can't really be said that the purpose of tongues was never to communicate with others. This account clearly refutes this.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

When a person speaks in tongues they are speaking to God (1 Cor 14:2), not to other people. “Telepathy“ is not involved. Tongues is not for humans to communicate with each other.

UNLESS the tongue being spoken happens to be a language that a person (or group of people) understands - as in the Acts 2:4 occasion.

That still happens today.

It's not wise to try putting GOD in a box of your own theological design. He tends not to respect your limitations.

 

[wolfwint]

I went to a big Christian conference/gathering.
I was struggling in my walk with God due to many reasons the main being severe anxiety as a result of severe childhood trauma and that God did not love me.

I went forward for prayer.

The person who came alongside me asked what I wanted prayer for and I mentioned the above issues.

Now this is true this was the conversation.

"Do you speak in tongues?
I said "no"
"Would you like to?
I couldn't answer that even though I had heard tongues in the Baptist church I was in.

I was then told

"Not speaking in tongues is evidence that you are not saved"

Even suggested that I could manufacturer it.

I carried that for so many years.
I wasn't going to manufacture it, I couldn't and wouldn't.

What a way to crush a believer and put a millstone round his neck.

I am not a cesationalist.
I fact the world today needs the miracles/signs/wonders that were prevalent in when Jesus was on earth and the early church did.

To say that it all stopped when the Apostles died and all we need now is just the Bible I think is wrong.

It's not a gift I have been given.

"Its not a gift I have been given". Thats the point.
I never heared that special the sign gifts: speaking in tongues, healing, prophecie, are given to the believer as gift like all others, too.
It is always combined with an extra expierience of the baptising with the holy Spirit.

I believe, that every born again believer receives the Holy Spirit, and also an gift for to serve in the body.

But since the pentecostal and charismatic groups came up, this seems not enough. There is a need for an extraordinare baptism with the Holy Spirit. And as proof for that becomes everybody the gift of speaking in tongues.
I cant find this teaching anywhere taught in the bible.

I fear miracles/ signs and wonders would not change the heart of the people. And they would give honor the Man, but not God.

God is uesing it still today, not for to entertain, but for Show his authority and power to an truth searching soul.

 

[VARob]

UNLESS the tongue being spoken happens to be a language that a person (or group of people) understands - as in the Acts 2:4 occasion.

Tongues is still not meant for human beings to communicate with each other. When a person speaks in tongues, he is speaking NOT to men, but TO God (1 Cor 14:2).

That still happens today.

Yes, it does. But it's rare, and certainly not guaranteed, which is why Paul instructs that when a person speaks in tongues aloud in the church, he must interpret.

It's not wise to try putting GOD in a box of your own theological design. He tends not to respect your limitations.

True, but God tells us in His Word what tongues is and what it is for.

 

[VARob]

The men don't seem to be speaking directly to their hearers,

Correct.

but it can't really be said that the purpose of tongues was never to communicate with others.

1 Cor 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

This account clearly refutes this.

What the Acts 2 record shows is that God can give languages to people that others will understand. But that rarely happens, which is why Paul instructs that when tongues are spoken aloud in public, they must be interpreted.

 

[VARob]

It quite common to see dissociation of the spirit.

I don't know what you mean.

If the gift of tounges is not for communicating with each other why is one person needed to speak it and another needed to interpret.

1 Cor 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

1 Cor 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

The person who speaks in tongues is to be the one to interpret.

Isn't the gift of tounges to shock unbelievers into repentance,

How do the unbelievers become shocked if there's no telepathic communication involved

"Shock"? "Telepathic communication"?

Where is that in the Bible?

 

[Fundaamental]

I don't know what you mean.


1 Cor 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

1 Cor 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

The person who speaks in tongues is to be the one to interpret.


"Shock"? "Telepathic communication"?

Where is that in the Bible?

there's quite a lot on telepathic powers. I have done a full study on it.

But check this source out it's pretty accurate 😊

The Bible actually has quite a bit to say about knowing another’s thoughts. Genesis 6:5 says, “Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.” In 1 Chronicles 28:9, David tells his son Solomon, “The LORD searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts.” Psalm 94:11 says, “The LORD knows the thoughts of man.” And Jesus knew the thoughts of the scribes in Matthew 9:4. But we cannot know the thoughts of another. First Corinthians 2:11 says, “For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him?” God did not create humans to be able to communicate simply through thought. Instead, he gave us forms of communication that require much more work and humility, forms that breed community instead of simple, quick information transfers.

There are those who seem to have abilities that resemble telepathy. Mothers are particularly good at this. But it isn’t anything mysterious. It’s simply knowing others well enough, and knowing their situation well enough, to be able to make an accurate, educated guess about their motives. Job exemplifies this in Job 21:27 when he tells one of his “comforters,” “Behold, I know your thoughts, and the plans by which you would wrong me.” He knows his friend well, and he’s sat through enough lectures to be able to figure out where Zophar is coming from. That’s not telepathy. That’s just paying attention.

The Bible also mentions cases of objects moving or changing into something else. In Genesis 5:24 “Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.” In I Kings 17:15, a widow’s flour and oil miraculously continue to provide throughout a long drought. In the next chapter, fire falls from heaven to consume a water-saturated sacrifice. In John 2, water turns into wine. But in all these cases, the purpose of the transformation or movement of materials was to glorify God and authenticate His messenger. At no time was it used merely for convenience or for frivolous purposes.

It is possible, however, for the enemy to use similar signs to draw attention to himself. Moses faced this when Pharaoh’s magicians turned their staffs into snakes (Exodus 7:12) and brought up frogs (Exodus 8:7). It is possible even now for people to make strange things happen. But we must examine what exactly is going on. Humans cannot use their minds to move or create objects. Those in the spirit realm can. So, every mysterious occurrence must be powered either by God or the enemy. If God is glorified through the event, if He caused the event to occur to validate His prophet, we can deduce the event occurred through Him. If, however, the event was frivolous and had nothing to do with God’s glory, it must have come through another source. And the Bible makes it clear that witchcraft and sorcery are to be avoided at all costs.

God made humans to interact in specific ways, ways that foster community and glorify Him. Some people may be blessed with a keen insight, but that doesn’t mean they have telepathy. The prophets of old were given the ability to ask God to act on their behalf in miraculous ways, but they didn’t have powers of psycho-kinesis. We are to look to the Holy Spirit for our strength. Trying to read another’s thoughts, move objects around a room, or create an energy ball takes time and effort away from the business of loving God and loving others and opens a dangerous door into the world of the occult.

 

[Fundaamental]

I don't know what you mean.


1 Cor 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

1 Cor 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

The person who speaks in tongues is to be the one to interpret.


"Shock"? "Telepathic communication"?

Where is that in the Bible?

there's quite a lot on telepathic powers. I have done a full study on it.

But check this source out it's pretty accurate

The Bible actually has quite a bit to say about knowing another’s thoughts. Genesis 6:5 says, “Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.” In 1 Chronicles 28:9, David tells his son Solomon, “The LORD searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts.” Psalm 94:11 says, “The LORD knows the thoughts of man.” And Jesus knew the thoughts of the scribes in Matthew 9:4. But we cannot know the thoughts of another. First Corinthians 2:11 says, “For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him?” God did not create humans to be able to communicate simply through thought. Instead, he gave us forms of communication that require much more work and humility, forms that breed community instead of simple, quick information transfers.

There are those who seem to have abilities that resemble telepathy. Mothers are particularly good at this. But it isn’t anything mysterious. It’s simply knowing others well enough, and knowing their situation well enough, to be able to make an accurate, educated guess about their motives. Job exemplifies this in Job 21:27 when he tells one of his “comforters,” “Behold, I know your thoughts, and the plans by which you would wrong me.” He knows his friend well, and he’s sat through enough lectures to be able to figure out where Zophar is coming from. That’s not telepathy. That’s just paying attention.

The Bible also mentions cases of objects moving or changing into something else. In Genesis 5:24 “Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.” In I Kings 17:15, a widow’s flour and oil miraculously continue to provide throughout a long drought. In the next chapter, fire falls from heaven to consume a water-saturated sacrifice. In John 2, water turns into wine. But in all these cases, the purpose of the transformation or movement of materials was to glorify God and authenticate His messenger. At no time was it used merely for convenience or for frivolous purposes.

It is possible, however, for the enemy to use similar signs to draw attention to himself. Moses faced this when Pharaoh’s magicians turned their staffs into snakes (Exodus 7:12) and brought up frogs (Exodus 8:7). It is possible even now for people to make strange things happen. But we must examine what exactly is going on. Humans cannot use their minds to move or create objects. Those in the spirit realm can. So, every mysterious occurrence must be powered either by God or the enemy. If God is glorified through the event, if He caused the event to occur to validate His prophet, we can deduce the event occurred through Him. If, however, the event was frivolous and had nothing to do with God’s glory, it must have come through another source. And the Bible makes it clear that witchcraft and sorcery are to be avoided at all costs.

God made humans to interact in specific ways, ways that foster community and glorify Him. Some people may be blessed with a keen insight, but that doesn’t mean they have telepathy. The prophets of old were given the ability to ask God to act on their behalf in miraculous ways, but they didn’t have powers of psycho-kinesis. We are to look to the Holy Spirit for our strength. Trying to read another’s thoughts, move objects around a room, or create an energy ball takes time and effort away from the business of loving God and loving others and opens a dangerous door into the world of the occult.

I don't know what you mean.


1 Cor 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

1 Cor 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

The person who speaks in tongues is to be the one to interpret.


"Shock"? "Telepathic communication"?

Where is that in the Bible?

my view for the purpose of tounges was to signify God's judgement against Isreal for rejecting the Messiah and there for shocked them into repentance and faith 😊

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

Tongues is still not meant for human beings to communicate with each other. When a person speaks in tongues, he is speaking NOT to men, but TO God (1 Cor 14:2).


Yes, it does. But it's rare, and certainly not guaranteed, which is why Paul instructs that when a person speaks in tongues aloud in the church, he must interpret.


True, but God tells us in His Word what tongues is and what it is for.

Careful!!! Your little God-Box is cracking -

 

[ResidentAlien]

When you study everything in the New Testament about the gift of speaking unknown languages, it's clear that its primary purpose was in fact to communicate something to other people. Otherwise, there wouldn't be a need for interpreters. Paul taught the main purpose of tongues was so the whole assembly could be built up. If nothing was communicated to others how could they all be built up?

 

[ResidentAlien]

Careful!!! Your little God-Box is cracking -

Your little "don't put God in a box" cliché is worn out and meaningless. Just by saying this you're putting Him in a box of your own making.

 

[SilverFox7]

1Cor. 14:2 is perhaps the quintessential verse used by many to “evidence” modern tongues-speech in the Bible.

If one were to paraphrase the KJB version of this verse into a more modern English, you'd need to get rid of the added “unknown”, use a more accurate translation from the Greek, and a more modern rendering of the archaic English word “tongue” –

Once done, you might end up with something more like this –

“He that speaks in a language isn’t speaking to others, but only to God; no one hears [him] with understanding; nevertheless, though he’s praying in the Spirit, he’s speaking mysteries.”

The whole passage is talking about real, rational language.

Let me use an analogy - If I attend a worship service in “East Haystack”, some remote town in the US out in the middle of nowhere, two things are going to be evident: one; there’s only going to be so many people at that service (i.e. there will be a finite given amount of people there) and two; the chances that anyone speaks anything but English is pretty slim to nil.

If I start praying aloud in say Lithuanian, there’s no one at that service that’s going to understand a single word I’m saying. Even though I’m speaking a real language, no one there will understand my “tongue”. That does not mean or imply that no one else understands Lithuanian; just no one at that particular service.

In this sense, therefore, I am speaking only to God, since he understands all languages. To everyone at the service, even though I’m praying in the Spirit (as defined further below), to the people listening to me, I’m still speaking “mysteries” – i.e. even though I’m praying as I ought, no one understands me; no one has a clue what I’m saying as no one speaks my language.

When one looks at the original Greek, the verb which is usually translated as “understandeth/understands” is actually the verb “to hear” in the sense of understanding what you’re hearing someone say. The verb is *not* “to understand”. That part of the verse is more properly “no one hears [him] with understanding”, i.e. no one listening to him understands what he’s saying.

There is nothing in this passage that suggests modern tongues-speech nor is there anything that even remotely suggests that the speaker does not understand what he himself is saying. The Greek bears this out; it is the listeners who do not understand, not the speaker – no matter how hard modern tongues-speakers want the speaker to also not understand…….unless the author of the text is a bad grammarian, it just isn’t there.

“Praying in the Spirit” does not refer to the words one is saying. Rather, it refers to how one is praying. In the three places it is used (Corinthians, Ephesians, and Jude), there is absolutely zero reference to 'languages' in connection with this phrase. “Praying in the Spirit” should be understood as praying in the power of the Spirit, by the leading of the Spirit, and according to His will.

Thank for this well composed and thoughtful response. Super helpful on a topic I haven't spent a lot of time with.

 

[VARob]

When you study everything in the New Testament about the gift of speaking unknown languages, it's clear that its primary purpose was in fact to communicate something to other people.

That's not a fact, and is not true. When a person speaks in tongues he is speaking to God, not to men (1 Cor 14:2).

Otherwise, there wouldn't be a need for interpreters.

When tongues are spoken aloud in the church, THEN they must be interpreted do that others will understand what was said and be edified.

Paul taught the main purpose of tongues was so the whole assembly could be built up.

Paul taught no such thing. The main pirpose of tongues is to build YOU up (1 Cor 14:4). When a person speaks in tongues he is speaking the wonderful works of God (Acts 2:11), magnifying God (Acts 10:46). He is giving thanks well (1 Cor 14:17).

If nothing was communicated to others how could they all be built up?

Which is why when tongues is spoken aloud in the church, the person must interpret. But tongues with interpretation in the church is not its main purpose.

 

[ResidentAlien]

That's not a fact, and is not true. When a person speaks in tongues he is speaking to God, not to men (1 Cor 14:2).


When tongues are spoken aloud in the church, THEN they must be interpreted do that others will understand what was said and be edified.


Paul taught no such thing. The main pirpose of tongues is to build YOU up (1 Cor 14:4). When a person speaks in tongues he is speaking the wonderful works of God (Acts 2:11), magnifying God (Acts 10:46). He is giving thanks well (1 Cor 14:17).


Which is why when tongues is spoken aloud in the church, the person must interpret. But tongues with interpretation in the church is not its main purpose.

Okay.

 

[VARob]

Okay.

..glad you're finally coming around.

 

[ResidentAlien]

..glad you're finally coming around.

I am?

 

[VARob]

I am?

..probably not. But I can hope.

 

[selahsays]

Consider that “tongues” are languages.

 

[Kavik]

Praying in tongues is one of the variations of the gift of tongues.
1Cor. 12:10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.

With respect to the phrases “divers kinds of tongues” and “diversities of tongues” (1 Cor. 12:10 and 28), one needs to look at what was actually written. First, in v. 10, there is no “various” or “different” here; the passage from the Greek is literally “to another, kinds of languages”. Verse 28 is more straightforward; “kinds of languages”. What is pertinent is that Paul renders ‘kinds’ with the word “genos”. It’s the same root as in our English ‘genus, genetics, genealogy’. It refers specifically to ‘kind(s)’ in the sense of belonging to a ‘family’, ‘race’, ‘people’. A more accurate understanding of “kinds of languages” would be “kinds of languages [belonging to a language family]”. A clear indication that real, rational languages are being referred to here.

I highly doubt that the same conditions that caused language diversification here on earth, resulting in various language families, exists in a heavenly realm. In addition, if one were to assume for a moment ‘tongues’ as a spiritual language, why would there ever be a need for more than just one; yet every single speaker has their own. No two speakers will ever have the same "tongue".